the NC/NEC and knew about all of that stuff. I do think there was some abuse of the fees in some nets, but the dude above ("Hustler") that I
was replying to doesn't seem to understand. He's got a chip on his shoulder about how his Fidonet experiences have gone, and doesn't want
to get past it. <SHRUG>
Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Gamgee <=-
Like a shmuck I paid it so the fidogods can't do a thing. It's
too bad nobody from the fidonet community wants to man up and
take down these corrupt sysops. Making a donation is one thing. Charging for access is another.
It's been explained to you (by at least two people, me being one of them), what the charges were for back in 1996. It seems like you don't even read replies that are sent to you. What don't you understand? You're still bitter about chump-change spent 25 fucking years ago?
I was the NET202 Treasurer 1989-1995.
At the time, it was a HUGE net. Over 1,000 nodes as I recall.
NET202 refused to dial the REC as he was a much more expensive in
state LD. We used what was the defacto 'Western Star' in Nevada.
We based the fee over a 3 month period but checks went to the NEC monthly based on bill for LD. He'd split out any personal calls
and such and it was JUST the LD bill to Nevada. I don't think we
ever hit over 7$ for a 3 month period.
Folks were told to mark any ecess they sent as for equipent, a
specific sysop who needed help and if they just sent extra change
NOT marked, it would offset the next bill for all.
It was common to send a bill for 5.33 or so and get a lot of 6$
checks. It was also common to get one for 11$ with a node to
also pay for. It wasn't uncommon to get one for 10$ with note
'excess to equipment'. NEC did not 'upgrade' without need.
By the end of my time, we'd gone Planet Connect for inbound but outbound had to be landline still. Price dropped dramatically
and I seem to recall we went to 4 month billing at 2$ or less.
Everything was above board, including the LD bill and HW needs.
We'd gasp at the shenanigans of other nets, but folks in NET202
were happy.
I transferred to Norfolk in 1995 so not sure what happened after
that.
In NET275, we were getting a feed from just north of us (NET271?)
but they devolved and I became NC and setup with the Southern
Star (John Souvestere) and ate the fee. There was an interim
where I was a free dial to the northern hub and drew all our
traffic from there for free.
I fed the NEC who then split it to the various hubs and nodes.
Kinda odd but hey, it worked. No cost. I ate the SSTAR fees
myself.
Cost recovery should be just that. Mine was just the fees, all
else went via internet by then. It did exist for a reason
before, to hand LD bills of over 1,000$ a month. Abuse is to
charge more than cost.
Yes, thank you. I understand all that, and your scenario was quite
typical I believe. I was in the Chicagoland net (115) back in the 90's,
and we had a similar setup. I wasn't a *C but was close friends with
the NC/NEC and knew about all of that stuff. I do think there was some abuse of the fees in some nets, but the dude above ("Hustler") that I
was replying to doesn't seem to understand. He's got a chip on his
shoulder about how his Fidonet experiences have gone, and doesn't want
to get past it. <SHRUG>
... AAcckk!! II''mm iinn hhaallff dduupplleexx
Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Gamgee <=-
Like a shmuck I paid it so the fidogods can't do a thing. It's
too bad nobody from the fidonet community wants to man up and
take down these corrupt sysops. Making a donation is one thing. Charging for access is another.
It's been explained to you (by at least two people, me being one of them), what the charges were for back in 1996. It seems like you don't even read replies that are sent to you. What don't you understand? You're still bitter about chump-change spent 25 fucking years ago?
I was the NET202 Treasurer 1989-1995.
At the time, it was a HUGE net. Over 1,000 nodes as I recall.
NET202 refused to dial the REC as he was a much more expensive in
state LD. We used what was the defacto 'Western Star' in Nevada.
We based the fee over a 3 month period but checks went to the NEC monthly based on bill for LD. He'd split out any personal calls
and such and it was JUST the LD bill to Nevada. I don't think we
ever hit over 7$ for a 3 month period.
Folks were told to mark any ecess they sent as for equipent, a
specific sysop who needed help and if they just sent extra change
NOT marked, it would offset the next bill for all.
It was common to send a bill for 5.33 or so and get a lot of 6$
checks. It was also common to get one for 11$ with a node to
also pay for. It wasn't uncommon to get one for 10$ with note
'excess to equipment'. NEC did not 'upgrade' without need.
By the end of my time, we'd gone Planet Connect for inbound but outbound had to be landline still. Price dropped dramatically
and I seem to recall we went to 4 month billing at 2$ or less.
Everything was above board, including the LD bill and HW needs.
We'd gasp at the shenanigans of other nets, but folks in NET202
were happy.
I transferred to Norfolk in 1995 so not sure what happened after
that.
In NET275, we were getting a feed from just north of us (NET271?)
but they devolved and I became NC and setup with the Southern
Star (John Souvestere) and ate the fee. There was an interim
where I was a free dial to the northern hub and drew all our
traffic from there for free.
I fed the NEC who then split it to the various hubs and nodes.
Kinda odd but hey, it worked. No cost. I ate the SSTAR fees
myself.
Cost recovery should be just that. Mine was just the fees, all
else went via internet by then. It did exist for a reason
before, to hand LD bills of over 1,000$ a month. Abuse is to
charge more than cost.
Yes, thank you. I understand all that, and your scenario was quite
typical I believe. I was in the Chicagoland net (115) back in the 90's,
and we had a similar setup. I wasn't a *C but was close friends with
the NC/NEC and knew about all of that stuff. I do think there was some abuse of the fees in some nets, but the dude above ("Hustler") that I
was replying to doesn't seem to understand. He's got a chip on his
shoulder about how his Fidonet experiences have gone, and doesn't want
to get past it. <SHRUG>
Thanks. I remember Chicago. At one point word got out how well
run NET202 was and how cheap the CRP. I think your treasurer and
I talked and I sent him our CRP policy.
It was mostly filled with what the NC/NEC *can't* do (as in abuse
funds for personal gain). The only bending of the rules was I
asked for an exemption on not using any commercial software as
long as the software was donated free of charge to NET202 for
treasuer use. They were fine with that and the combo Database, spreadsheet and word processor disks were turned over with the
files when I left.
I think when I left we had almost enough to get a complete new
server. All voluntarily contributed.
Somehow, we managed to never have to turn off anyone's feeds
because if a person couldn't pay, they'd post a note and along
would come a netmail to me letting me know who's covering it.
Several would send extra tagged to 'whoever is short'.
Oh we had one oddity. Points were common as were ones with full
fledged BBSes under them. If a full BBS with callers, they had
to pay too but mostly the Boss node would cover their points.
Other places didn't charge points with full BBSs and callers so
those who didn't want to pay, would grow a point under a listed
site...
All in all, fairly well done I think.
Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Gamgee <=-
Like a shmuck I paid it so the fidogods can't do a thing. It's too bad nobody from the fidonet community wants to man up and take down these corrupt sysops. Making a donation is one thing. Charging for access is another.
It's been explained to you (by at least two people, me being one of them), what the charges were for back in 1996. It seems like you don' even read replies that are sent to you. What don't you understand? You're still bitter about chump-change spent 25 fucking years ago?
I was the NET202 Treasurer 1989-1995.
At the time, it was a HUGE net. Over 1,000 nodes as I recall.
NET202 refused to dial the REC as he was a much more expensive in state LD. We used what was the defacto 'Western Star' in Nevada.
We based the fee over a 3 month period but checks went to the NEC monthly based on bill for LD. He'd split out any personal calls
and such and it was JUST the LD bill to Nevada. I don't think we ever hit over 7$ for a 3 month period.
Folks were told to mark any ecess they sent as for equipent, a specific sysop who needed help and if they just sent extra change NOT marked, it would offset the next bill for all.
It was common to send a bill for 5.33 or so and get a lot of 6$ checks. It was also common to get one for 11$ with a node to
also pay for. It wasn't uncommon to get one for 10$ with note 'excess to equipment'. NEC did not 'upgrade' without need.
By the end of my time, we'd gone Planet Connect for inbound but outbound had to be landline still. Price dropped dramatically
and I seem to recall we went to 4 month billing at 2$ or less.
Everything was above board, including the LD bill and HW needs.
We'd gasp at the shenanigans of other nets, but folks in NET202
were happy.
I transferred to Norfolk in 1995 so not sure what happened after that.
In NET275, we were getting a feed from just north of us (NET271?) but they devolved and I became NC and setup with the Southern
Star (John Souvestere) and ate the fee. There was an interim
where I was a free dial to the northern hub and drew all our
traffic from there for free.
I fed the NEC who then split it to the various hubs and nodes.
Kinda odd but hey, it worked. No cost. I ate the SSTAR fees
myself.
Cost recovery should be just that. Mine was just the fees, all
else went via internet by then. It did exist for a reason
before, to hand LD bills of over 1,000$ a month. Abuse is to
charge more than cost.
Yes, thank you. I understand all that, and your scenario was quite typical I believe. I was in the Chicagoland net (115) back in the 90's, and we had a similar setup. I wasn't a *C but was close friends with
the NC/NEC and knew about all of that stuff. I do think there was some abuse of the fees in some nets, but the dude above ("Hustler") that I
was replying to doesn't seem to understand. He's got a chip on his shoulder about how his Fidonet experiences have gone, and doesn't want
to get past it. <SHRUG>
Thanks. I remember Chicago. At one point word got out how well
run NET202 was and how cheap the CRP. I think your treasurer and
I talked and I sent him our CRP policy.
It was mostly filled with what the NC/NEC *can't* do (as in abuse
funds for personal gain). The only bending of the rules was I
asked for an exemption on not using any commercial software as
long as the software was donated free of charge to NET202 for
treasuer use. They were fine with that and the combo Database, spreadsheet and word processor disks were turned over with the
files when I left.
I think when I left we had almost enough to get a complete new
server. All voluntarily contributed.
Somehow, we managed to never have to turn off anyone's feeds
because if a person couldn't pay, they'd post a note and along
would come a netmail to me letting me know who's covering it.
Several would send extra tagged to 'whoever is short'.
Oh we had one oddity. Points were common as were ones with full fledged BBSes under them. If a full BBS with callers, they had
to pay too but mostly the Boss node would cover their points.
Other places didn't charge points with full BBSs and callers so
those who didn't want to pay, would grow a point under a listed
site...
All in all, fairly well done I think.
Thanks for the reminder of bygone times. In many ways things were much better back then, in my opinion, and I miss that aspect of Fidonet. I
don't recall any serious problems with the CRP in NET115, either. Can't remember the cost now, but I believe it was less than $5/month, which
seemed like a bargain to me.
That last paragraph of yours, with people hiding behind a point, seems a little sketchy... I think it might have ruffled a few feathers had that gone on with us. :-)
... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
| Sysop: | Chris Crash |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huntington Beach, CA. |
| Users: | 557 |
| Nodes: | 8 (0 / 8) |
| Uptime: | 102:29:00 |
| Calls: | 10,386 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 5 |
| Messages: | 360,852 |