• Documentary..

    From Charon@VERT/THERIVER to All on Mon Dec 23 22:59:48 2013
    I found this BBS documentary by Jason Sadofsky while cruising around on the internet. Wow! Talk about a trip back into time. Check it out!

    www.theosol.com/movies/bbs.mp4

    Charon
    riverstyx.darktech.org


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The River Styx - riverstyx.darktech.org
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Charon on Tue Dec 24 08:01:43 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Charon to All on Mon Dec 23 2013 02:59 pm

    I found this BBS documentary by Jason Sadofsky while cruising around on
    the internet. Wow! Talk about a trip back into time. Check it out!

    www.theosol.com/movies/bbs.mp4


    yeah it's been out for a while. you can watch it or download it in many places.

    i uploaded it to google video and youtube and a bunch of fags grabbed it and uploaded it to make money off youtube [apparently?]
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Mro on Thu Dec 26 14:40:06 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Mro to Charon on Tue Dec 24 2013 00:01:43

    i uploaded it to google video and youtube and a bunch of fags grabbed it and uploaded it to make money off youtube [apparently?]

    Fags, eh? Homophobic, too, Mro? Quite the character assets you've got, with what I've put together over the course of my DOVE-Netting.

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Khelair on Thu Dec 26 23:45:18 2013
    Re: Re: fags
    By: Khelair to Mro on Thu Dec 26 2013 06:40:06

    Fags, eh? Homophobic, too, Mro? Quite the character assets you've got, with what I've put together over the course of my DOVE-Netting.

    I suppose he may have meant cigarettes.. ;)

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Charon on Fri Dec 27 04:21:32 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Charon to All on Mon Dec 23 2013 14:59:48

    I found this BBS documentary by Jason Sadofsky while cruising around on the internet. Wow! Talk about a trip back into time. Check it out!

    www.theosol.com/movies/bbs.mp4

    I saw that in 2007, and that's what inspired me to start a BBS again.
    It's also available on DVD, and you can order a copy here: http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/order/

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Sam Alexander@VERT to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 06:40:13 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Nightfox to Charon on Thu Dec 26 2013 08:21 pm

    Re: Documentary..
    By: Charon to All on Mon Dec 23 2013 14:59:48

    I found this BBS documentary by Jason Sadofsky while cruising around on the internet. Wow! Talk about a trip back into time. Check it out!

    www.theosol.com/movies/bbs.mp4

    I saw that in 2007, and that's what inspired me to start a BBS again.
    It's also available on DVD, and you can order a copy here: http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/order/

    I can't remember when it originally came out, maybe 7 or 8 years ago, but I pre-ordered it months before it was released... then it came and one of the DVD's was missing. I emailed asking about it, and Jason Scott himself called me. We had like a 2 hour conversation about his making the documentary and some of his wild adventures, plus his work with archive.org. He's an amazing guy, and I'd love to meet him in person.



    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 09:37:26 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Nightfox to Charon on Thu Dec 26 2013 08:21 pm


    I saw that in 2007, and that's what inspired me to start a BBS again.
    It's also available on DVD, and you can order a copy here: http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/order/


    i still wish we had access to that footage that he cut.
    a lot of the people just had seconds of face time. i know there's a small amount on archive.org, but not really what i was hoping for. i dont know if the people being interviewed were THAT bad, or what.

    i have mixed feelings about the bbsdoc. especially the sea vs pkware one, because katz wasnt around to defend himself and the sea people were allowed to pull their lies and bullshit [even after all these years]. in regards to that subject, you can actually go back in time via reading what each side said and decide for yourself what happened there. some of that content was released after the bbs doc and it's linked on his blog i believe.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Sam Alexander on Fri Dec 27 09:47:06 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Sam Alexander to Nightfox on Thu Dec 26 2013 10:40 pm

    called me. We had like a 2 hour conversation about his making the documentary and some of his wild adventures, plus his work with
    archive.org. He's an amazing guy, and I'd love to meet him in person.


    i've seen people say he's a great guy, and i've seen other people talking about him and saying he's an asshole and huge ego maniac. i'd be an ego maniac too if i could open up kickstarter projects [one of them to go on 'sabbatical' after being fired] and make tens of thousands of dollars.

    in regards to him as a filemaker, bbs doc was decent. get lamp was really bad. get lamp was a bunch of boring neck beards and it will put anybody to sleep.

    i guess he has a defcon documentary and it has a hillarious review on imdb.
    i'm pretty sure that one's a piece of crap too.

    not sure where to see it, probably not going to look into that.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Sam Alexander on Fri Dec 27 16:03:44 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Sam Alexander to Nightfox on Thu Dec 26 2013 22:40:13

    I found this BBS documentary by Jason Sadofsky while cruising
    around on the internet. Wow! Talk about a trip back into time.
    Check it out!

    I can't remember when it originally came out, maybe 7 or 8 years ago,
    but I pre-ordered it months before it was released... then it came and
    one of the DVD's was missing. I emailed asking about it, and Jason
    Scott himself called me. We had like a 2 hour conversation about his making the documentary and some of his wild adventures, plus his work
    with archive.org. He's an amazing guy, and I'd love to meet him in person.

    That's cool. Did you ever get that missing DVD sent to you? I'm guessing you probably did?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mro on Fri Dec 27 16:09:15 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 2013 01:37:26

    i have mixed feelings about the bbsdoc. especially the sea vs pkware
    one, because katz wasnt around to defend himself and the sea people were allowed to pull their lies and bullshit [even after all these years]. in regards to that subject, you can actually go back in time via reading
    what each side said and decide for yourself what happened there. some of that content was released after the bbs doc and it's linked on his blog
    i believe.

    I was too young to really be aware of the PKWare vs. SEA thing at the time, but it was interesting to hear about it on the BBS Documentary. I agree it was unfortunate that Phil Katz was no longer around to tell his side, but there's really nothing anyone can do about that. From what I remember, supposedly Phil Katz took the source code to ARC and changed it a bit and passed it on as PKZip - I suppose I'll have to look around online for more information on that to see if it's true or not. But I did think it was an interesting case and highlights one of the risks of releasing the source code along with your product if you intend to sell your product for a profit.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 20:08:10 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Fri Dec 27 2013 08:09 am

    I was too young to really be aware of the PKWare vs. SEA thing at the time, but it was interesting to hear about it on the BBS Documentary. I agree it was unfortunate that Phil Katz was no longer around to tell his side, but there's really nothing anyone can do about that. From what I remember, supposedly Phil Katz took the source code to ARC and changed it a bit and passed it on as PKZip - I suppose I'll have to look around online for more information on that to see if it's true or not. But I did think it was an


    no, that's not what happened. first: almost everyone was sharing their source. people wouldnt even run the program without seeing the source.
    what phil did was take the arc source and add his own optimizations to it. he made it better, then called it pkarc. like when nico-mac made winzip out of the pkware code. like many other occurances.

    thom from sea wanted to get paid. he was the type of guy that used 'we' a lot like he was a big company. he also would bother other developers and threaten them with lawsuits *just because they MUST* have used his code to develop their compression program... even though thom had no access to that developer's code. he was essentially sending out letters that said "pay me or be sued".

    that in the bbs doc where thom said phil katz copied his source code, word for word, even the spelling mistakes can not be corroborated. that is a line his family has said since the beginning and there is no proof.

    if he copied the source code 100% and passed it off as his own, then why was it better? sea was mad because everyone was switching to pkarc.

    there was a lot of bitterness from the sea family about this situation. in their mind they should have become millionaires. in the end, phil build pkzip from scratch and released the spec. .zip won over .arc on merrit.

    not only that, but he still was making a lot of money and his employees were being paid well. this is something SEA never did.

    eventually phil died of alcholism, probably partially related to his success.
    I live in that area and i know one guy who worked at pkware. it was a great place to work. Phil even went to the strip club i go to.

    it's messed up that they talked so badly about a dead man who couldnt defend himself. all the msg net arguing is still saved and you can go online and read it for yourself. it's interesting. sea was all family. brother , sister, brother in law. they would lie and cheat to get their point across and the people on the msg networks caught them a few times.

    it's just messed up to give so much facetime to a sore loser loser who technically won the lawsuit but lost the war.


    here's from thom's webpage after he heard phil died:

    "
    Then he fiddled with the file format a bit, renamed it from PKARC to PKZIP, and kept right on selling it.

    We sort of lost touch after that. We would have liked to have kept in touch, but we couldn't afford the legal bills. There wasn't a lot to sue for anyway. None of us was getting rich.

    So now Phil Katz is dead. He drank himself to death, alone in a motel room, a bottle of booze in his hand and five empties in the room. One can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a lie.

    I can think of no more fitting epitath than the final clause of the original ARC copyright statement:

    "If you fail to abide by the terms of this license, then your
    conscience will haunt you for the rest of your life."
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Khelair@VERT/TINFOIL to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 18:46:03 2013
    Re: Re: fags
    By: Nightfox to Khelair on Thu Dec 26 2013 15:45:18

    I suppose he may have meant cigarettes.. ;)

    Possibly...

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"

    ---
    þ Synchronet
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 23:33:55 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Nightfox to Mro on Fri Dec 27 2013 08:09 am

    side, but there's really nothing anyone can do about that. From what I remember, supposedly Phil Katz took the source code to ARC and changed it a bit and passed it on as PKZip - I suppose I'll have to look around online for more information on that to see if it's true or not. But I did think it was an interesting case and highlights one of the risks of releasing the source code along with your product if you intend to sell your product for a profit.

    I started doing some more poking around. It sounds like SEA released the source code to encourage a *nix port, and that's where the code got to PKWare.

    I'd like to find the court docs, wonder if they're online somewhere.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Poindexter Fortran@VERT/REALITY to Mro on Fri Dec 27 23:36:37 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Mro to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 2013 12:08 pm

    So now Phil Katz is dead. He drank himself to death, alone in a motel room, a bottle of booze in his hand and five empties in the room. One
    can only guess what drove him to such a tragic end, but it is a fitting demise for a man whose professional reputation is based entirely on a
    lie.

    He really wrote that? Knowing that it'd be read and shared endlessly?

    it's just messed up to give so much facetime to a sore loser loser who technically won the lawsuit but lost the war.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Dec 28 08:29:10 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Nightfox on Fri Dec 27 2013 03:33 pm


    I started doing some more poking around. It sounds like SEA released the source code to encourage a *nix port, and that's where the code got to PKWare.

    I'd like to find the court docs, wonder if they're online somewhere.



    i could drive up and get them but it's probably like 50 cents a sheet.

    if you go on the bbsdoc site there are some collections of bickerings on msg nets. i had another site that i found more info on but this was years ago and i forgot it.

    anyways, what phil did was create a program that worked with arc archives and optiomized it to be very fast and effecient. he didnt copy their code 100%.

    thom even suggested that he again took their code and changed it a little to make the .zip format. that's just not true. regardless, there was a closed settlement with kats not admitting wrongdoing and sea got over 60k of cash. they should have been happy with just that considering sea really had no direction or future.

    sea also went after the guy that made the CRUSH util. i'm sure you've seen it on bbs file areas back in the day.

    it's interesting stuff. did all this contribute to helping a guy destroy himself? who knows. he obviously had severe depression and everything takes a toll.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Mro@VERT/BBSESINF to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Dec 28 08:32:59 2013
    Re: Documentary..
    By: Poindexter Fortran to Mro on Fri Dec 27 2013 03:36 pm

    He really wrote that? Knowing that it'd be read and shared endlessly?


    that really shows the amount of hate between thom and his family towards katz.


    "My official statement regarding the death of Phil Katz " http://www.esva.net/~thom/philkatz.html

    "Whatever may have transpired in the distant past is of little relevance to me today. "

    but he still was glad to go on the bbs doc with his sister and trash him in a one sided story one last time.

    he couldnt help himself; almost everyone was on phil's side back then.
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::