• Re: sbbs as fidonet hub

    From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to fusion on Wed Mar 31 20:33:00 2021
    fusion wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 31 Mar 2021, Gamgee said the following...

    What he's describing is what happens with automated BBS ads and/or echo rules postings (just two examples). Same body, different MSGID, and
    they won't get distributed into the echos because the hub will drop it
    as a dupe. Those aren't malicious/spam messages, but they get dropped.

    this, of course, nobody agrees on. i for one have removed just
    about every area with a non stop barage of rules postings.. which
    everyone ignores except the one stickler who wants to refer to
    them. usually the otherwise completely dead area will spring back
    to life the second you post though, because the one dude posting
    the rules non stop doesn't agree with you and he's the only other
    person there..

    From what I've seen, rules postings are pretty infrequent in any of the
    echos that I follow. Not a big deal to just skip over them. But if
    you're trying to advertise your BBS with a 2x/month post, and it gets
    eaten by the hub as a dupe, you're not really "getting out" your advertisement. Hence my position that the dupes should maybe only be
    filtered out based on MSGID.

    tbh i hate automated posts in general. every ham radio area on
    every net i've been on is completely ruined with the same non
    stop messages you get in your local club's mailing lists. and
    when's the last time you met a ham that isn't on their local
    club's mailing list?

    I don't do ham radio, so can't comment on that.

    Looks like your <SHIFT> key is broken, BTW. Do you actually prefer to
    not use proper capitalization?



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From fusion@VERT/CFBBS to Gamgee on Thu Apr 1 00:56:00 2021
    On 31 Mar 2021, Gamgee said the following...

    Looks like your <SHIFT> key is broken, BTW. Do you actually prefer to not use proper capitalization?

    ya

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Gamgee on Wed Mar 31 23:10:17 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Gamgee to Digital Man on Wed Mar 31 2021 07:59 am

    It sounds like you're suggesting that *both* the text and the
    MSGID should be compared and equal in order to be considered a duplicate - to which I would ask: why bother? if the MSGID is a duplicate, it's a duplicate. No need to compare the message body
    in that case. But 2 messages with different MSGIDs but the same
    body text is either a network screw-up or someone purposely or accidentally posting the same content repeatedly.

    What he's describing is what happens with automated BBS ads and/or echo rules postings (just two examples). Same body, different MSGID, and
    they won't get distributed into the echos because the hub will drop it
    as a dupe. Those aren't malicious/spam messages, but they get dropped.

    There's no way for software to tell the difference between accidental and intentional repeated message body text.

    There's really
    no way for software to tell the difference. But you can import
    and forward those messages if you prefer to, you have that
    option.

    They realistically can't be forwarded, because the next system in the
    link (probably a hub) will drop it as a dupe.

    I *think* he's saying that if the MSGID's are different, the message
    should not be considered a dupe, even if the body is identical to a
    previous message. I agree with that thinking.

    Disable duplicate message checking and you will have that behavior.
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #124:
    The Loons - "Ten Inch Men" with Rob on drums: https://youtu.be/EBSlpojM4j0 Norco, CA WX: 85.2øF, 7.0% humidity, 3 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Al on Wed Mar 31 23:22:13 2021
    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Al to Digital Man on Wed Mar 31 2021 06:32 am

    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Digital Man to Al on Tue Mar 30 2021 09:27 pm

    It sounds like you're suggesting that *both* the text and the MSGID should be compared and equal in order to be considered a duplicate -

    Yes, I think that would do what I am hoping to do.

    If the MSGID is duplicate, there's no point in comparing the message body text. You already know it's a dupe.

    to which I would ask: why bother?

    These messages (rules posts or BBS ads) do have identical message bodies but they have been newly posted, these are new posts with a different MSGID. We still want to be vigilant about dupes, in fact today we must be vigilant about dupes.

    I'm not clear what your definitino of "vigilant about dupes" means. If you only care about duplicate MSGIDs, then disable the duplicate message checking and that is what you will get - but *I* don't consider that configuration to be vigilant.

    Stepping away from the BBS side of this and looking at it from a mail flow point of view.. when linked to someones node, linked nodes have a reasonable expectation that they will receive all new messages in a given area that have been posted, and also that messages that enter the flow from their node will also be sent along to connected nodes.

    I hope that my uplink will deduplicate messages using effective measures. If he doesn't, then I will. Duplicates should be detected and removed as upstream as possible, in my opinion. But if you want different behavior on your system, you have that option.

    I feel like we're talking past each other and I'm not really sure how else to state it: if you want to allow multiple messages to be imported into your message bases and passed to downlinks with the identical message body text of a previously imported message, then disable the duplicate message checking in SCFG. This will have no impact on duplicate MSGID checking. There is no configuration setting to disable dulpicate MSGID checking.
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #114:
    Weedpuller "Geographic" http://youtu.be/cpzBDVgmWSA
    Norco, CA WX: 84.8øF, 7.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Gamgee on Wed Mar 31 23:30:40 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Gamgee to fusion on Wed Mar 31 2021 01:33 pm

    Hence my position that the dupes should maybe only be
    filtered out based on MSGID.

    And you have that option.
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #75:
    Rob's alias "digital man" was inspired by a song on Rush's 1982 "Signals" album Norco, CA WX: 84.8øF, 7.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From mark lewis@VERT to Digital Man on Thu Apr 1 03:05:49 2021
    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Digital Man to Al on Wed Mar 31 2021 16:22:13


    If the MSGID is duplicate, there's no point in comparing the message body text. You already know it's a dupe.

    not always true... just ask daryl stout of thunderbolt bbs about the times i reported to him about his messages being detected as dupes because the sofware he was using at the time was creating basically random MSGIDs and some
    were duplicates of others only a few months old... in some cases, it may have been attributed to reinstallations and/or the loss of a/the msgid file if there was such in use... in any case, i know that he can tell about the
    problem... one of those packages was virtual advanced IIRC... there was another one or two that he tried before setteling on synchronet...

    i will admit that on systems with low retention of messages (and msgids), they might not see this but when one can (finally) retain enough to be able to check back over a 3 year period (FTN MSGIDs are not supposed to repeat
    within three years), it certainly pops up... when one also has a dupe message base the dupe messages can be tossed into, it is also easy enough to find the messages and compare them manually...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to mark lewis on Thu Apr 1 00:48:52 2021
    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: mark lewis to Digital Man on Wed Mar 31 2021 08:05 pm

    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Digital Man to Al on Wed Mar 31 2021 16:22:13


    If the MSGID is duplicate, there's no point in comparing the message body text. You already know it's a dupe.

    not always true...

    For the purposes of Synchronet/SBBSecho, it's a duplicate and will not be imported. There is no provision in the Synchronet message bases for multiple MSGIDs of the same value.
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #61:
    He's a rebel and a runner, he's a signal turning green .. New World Man
    Norco, CA WX: 83.6øF, 8.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Digital Man on Thu Apr 1 04:39:00 2021
    Digital Man wrote to Gamgee <=-

    There's really
    no way for software to tell the difference. But you can import
    and forward those messages if you prefer to, you have that
    option.

    They realistically can't be forwarded, because the next system in the
    link (probably a hub) will drop it as a dupe.

    I *think* he's saying that if the MSGID's are different, the message
    should not be considered a dupe, even if the body is identical to a
    previous message. I agree with that thinking.

    Disable duplicate message checking and you will have that
    behavior.

    Yes, I understand that. But the bigger issue is that that will only
    allow the (seemingly) dupe message to appear on *MY* board. When we're talking about BBS ads, and echo rules postings, if those messages get
    dropped by the hub of the originating system, then *NOBODY* else is
    going to see it. The reality of it is that nearly every system (I
    think) has CRC dupe checking enabled, and therein lies the problem.

    I do see the alternative side, which is that a spammer could post a
    bunch of copies of some garbage, and since they all would have a
    different MSGID, they'd go through. It's a conundrum.

    Personally the way I've resolved it for my own system's semi-monthly BBS
    ad posting, is that I have a script that inserts the current date at the
    end of the boilerplate advertisement text, thereby making it a different
    CRC than the previous posting.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to Digital Man on Thu Apr 1 04:41:00 2021
    Digital Man wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Hence my position that the dupes should maybe only be
    filtered out based on MSGID.

    And you have that option.

    Yes, understood. I expanded my thoughts in a previous post a minute
    ago. It's all good, thank you DM, as always.




    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to fusion on Thu Apr 1 04:42:00 2021
    fusion wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Looks like your <SHIFT> key is broken, BTW. Do you actually prefer to
    not use proper capitalization?

    ya

    Why?



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Digital Man on Thu Apr 1 05:53:47 2021
    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Digital Man to Al on Wed Mar 31 2021 04:22 pm

    Yes, I think that would do what I am hoping to do.

    If the MSGID is duplicate, there's no point in comparing the message body text. You already know it's a dupe.

    I don't think that is so but I am not sure either.

    I'm not clear what your definitino of "vigilant about dupes" means. If you only care about duplicate MSGIDs, then disable the duplicate message checking and that is what you will get - but *I* don't consider that configuration to be vigilant.

    I mean that we need to be vigilant and stop dupes where they are. We also need to pass new traffic as it arrives just as diligently.

    This is more important for those nodes who pass traffic. Nodes that don't do that may feel that those dupes can simply go to dupe heaven.

    I hope that my uplink will deduplicate messages using effective measures. If he doesn't, then I will. Duplicates should be detected and removed as upstream as possible, in my opinion.

    I do too, and I hope that I will receive new traffic.

    But if you want different behavior on your system, you have that option.

    I could be wrong and I haven't tried it but I don't think detecting dupes by MSGID alone is a good option. Detecting dupes by message body CRC alone is not a good option either.

    I feel like we're talking past each other and I'm not really sure how else to state it: if you want to allow multiple messages to be imported into your message bases and passed to downlinks with the identical message body text of a previously imported message, then disable the duplicate message checking in SCFG. This will have no impact on duplicate MSGID checking. There is no configuration setting to disable dulpicate MSGID checking.

    I feel you, and I do understand your position.

    Some would say if it looks like a duck, and if it walks like a duck, and if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

    But I am saying that ain't no duck, in this case.

    I suppose it comes down to just what is a dupe. Is it a dupe if the msg body CRC is identical to a past post? That's a pretty good indication but I am suggesting we campare the MSGID of the two messages before we call it a dupe.

    Currently SBBSecho is dropping new messages from the flow of traffic because it has incorrectly trapped them as dupes when they are in fact new posts.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... Dew knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl mistakes!

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Al on Thu Apr 1 06:14:05 2021
    Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Al to Digital Man on Wed Mar 31 2021 10:53 pm

    I suppose it comes down to just what is a dupe. Is it a dupe if the msg body CRC is identical to a past post? That's a pretty good indication but I am suggesting we campare the MSGID of the two messages before we call it a dupe.

    If the MSGID is the same as a previously imported message, you don't need to compare the message body too. Re-scanned or otherwise accidentally reposted duplicate messages sometimes have modified body text (e.g. modified or additional tear/tag/origin lines) - but they're still dupes.

    Currently SBBSecho is dropping new messages from the flow of traffic because it has incorrectly trapped them as dupes when they are in fact new posts.

    So disable the duplicate message checking. I'm pretty sure I've said that already. :-)
    --
    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #16:
    David St. Hubbins: I believe virtually everything I read...
    Norco, CA WX: 68.6øF, 13.0% humidity, 1 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Daryl Stout@VERT/TBOLT to mark lewis on Thu Apr 1 05:57:00 2021
    Mark,

    not always true... just ask daryl stout of thunderbolt bbs about the
    times i reported to him about his messages being detected as dupes

    That was when I was running Virtual Advanced (VADV32). The current
    author, Steve Winn, awhile back, said he'd have to completely redo the
    FIDONet tosser, but apparently he didn't have either the source code
    or full rights from the original author, Roland DeGraff (who had to
    stop developing it due to health issues).

    I've been running Synchronet for quite awhile now, and the main echoes
    I have dupes turned on in are the ones for ads (BBS, Network, Echo, etc.).
    Some systems post ads for their system several times a day...which to me,
    is overkill. I have the age in those echoes set to 30 days...but in the
    other echoes, it's 180 days (I don't consider messages timely more than
    6 months old). Besides, you have no idea if the original poster is still
    around or not.

    Daryl

    ... Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@VERT to mark lewis on Thu Apr 1 18:37:14 2021
    Hi mark,

    On 2021-03-31 20:05:49, you wrote to Digital Man:

    If the MSGID is duplicate, there's no point in comparing the message
    body text. You already know it's a dupe.

    not always true... just ask daryl stout of thunderbolt bbs about the times i reported to him about his messages being detected as dupes because the sofware he was using at the time was creating basically random MSGIDs and some were duplicates of others only a few months old... in some cases, it may have been attributed to reinstallations and/or the loss of a/the msgid file if there was such in use... in any case, i know that he can tell about
    the problem... one of those packages was virtual advanced IIRC... there was
    another one or two that he tried before setteling on synchronet...

    I've seen them too in the past, when I was investigating cases of false dupe detection.

    I don't know how often it happens, because most probably go undetected. I'm not reading my dupe area on a regular basis, let alone scan it for false dupes... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From mark lewis@VERT to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Apr 1 15:33:26 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Wilfred van Velzen to mark lewis on Thu Apr 01 2021 11:37:14


    I don't know how often it happens, because most probably go
    undetected. I'm not reading my dupe area on a regular basis,
    let alone scan it for false dupes... ;)

    when i was more active about it, i would look at my logs and see X messages detected as dupes via MSGID... so i would pop over to my dupe area in TimED or (later on) GoldEd and then just search for a MSGID from the list... in
    some cases, there would be one other match... in others there may be two or three...

    in any case, dupe checking in FTN is not done my /just/ detecting duplicate MSGIDs and rejecting the others... the header, including the time stamp, as well as the message body should be taken into account... it should also be
    said that CRC16/CRC32 on the message bodies is also not sifficient... even with filtering out white space and the various EoLs... this because, and most programmers know this, there's a limited supply of CRC values in the
    tables and it is all too easy to find "hash clashes"... CRC16 has only 65536 values... CRC32 has only 4294967296 values... the "Birthday Problem" also comes into play...

    these days, MD5 and SHA1 are also out due to defects in them... SHA256 would be the first really useful algorithm or SHA512... but the real key is to filter out the stuff that can change and hash only that which won't...

    anyway, i'm done with this topic in this area... the discussion really belongs elsewhere for those that are truely interested in implementing proper duplicate detection in FTNs...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@VERT to mark lewis on Thu Apr 1 22:08:42 2021
    * Originally in SYNCHRONET
    * Crossposted in NET_DEV

    Hi mark,

    On 2021-04-01 08:33:26, you wrote to me:

    in any case, dupe checking in FTN is not done my /just/ detecting duplicate MSGIDs and rejecting the others... the header, including the time stamp, as well as the message body should be taken into
    account...

    That's how FMail does it.

    it should also be said that CRC16/CRC32 on the message bodies is also
    not sifficient... even with filtering out white space and the various EoLs... this because, and most programmers know this, there's a
    limited supply of CRC values in the tables and it is all too easy to
    find "hash clashes"... CRC16 has only 65536 values... CRC32 has only 4294967296 values... the "Birthday Problem" also comes into play...

    Indeed. That's why it's on my todo list to go from 32 bit to 64 bit hash values in FMail. That would be more than enough to keep a (very) big dupe "database", and still have a very small probability for hash collisions.

    these days, MD5 and SHA1 are also out due to defects in them...

    That's because of their security aspect. That's not an issue when you would be using them as hash's for dupe detection.

    SHA256 would be the first really useful algorithm or SHA512...

    Using a 256 or even 512 bit secure hash value would be overkill for dupe detection. And would be using way too much resources to calculate and check them.

    64 Bit is enough, and it doesn't have to be secure. My prime candidate for FMail is this one:

    https://github.com/Cyan4973/xxHash

    but the real key is to filter out the stuff that can change and hash
    only that which won't...

    Indeed.

    anyway, i'm done with this topic in this area... the discussion really belongs elsewhere for those that are truely interested in implementing proper duplicate detection in FTNs...

    (I've crossposted to NET_DEV.)


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Digital Man@VERT to mark lewis on Thu Apr 1 20:02:22 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: mark lewis to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Apr 01 2021 08:33 am

    in any case, dupe checking in FTN is not done my /just/ detecting duplicate MSGIDs and rejecting the others... the header, including the time stamp, as well as the message body should be taken into account...

    Dupe checking in FTN is done via many methods - its implementation dependant. SBBSecho does not take the time stamp of the message into account when considering if a message is a duplicate.

    it should also be
    said that CRC16/CRC32 on the message bodies is also not sifficient... even with filtering out white space and the various EoLs... this because, and most programmers know this, there's a limited supply of CRC values in the tables and it is all too easy to find "hash clashes"... CRC16 has only 65536 values... CRC32 has only 4294967296 values... the "Birthday Problem" also comes into play...

    SMB uses a combination of multiple digest methods (not just CRC). They must all match (and the size) for a text string to be considered a match (e.g. duplicate).

    these days, MD5 and SHA1 are also out due to defects in them...

    You're thinking of uses in security algorithms. MD5 and SHA1 still have perfectly valid uses outside of security.

    SHA256 would
    be the first really useful algorithm or SHA512... but the real key is to filter out the stuff that can change and hash only that which won't...

    anyway, i'm done with this topic in this area... the discussion really belongs elsewhere for those that are truely interested in implementing proper duplicate detection in FTNs...

    Okay, then I guess you won't see this reply. <shrug>
    --
    digital man

    Rush quote #19:
    Rebel without a conscience, martyr without a cause
    Norco, CA WX: 78.8øF, 15.0% humidity, 0 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs ---
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From mark lewis@VERT to Digital Man on Fri Apr 2 00:05:04 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Digital Man to mark lewis on Thu Apr 01 2021 13:02:22


    in any case, dupe checking in FTN is not done my /just/ detecting
    duplicate MSGIDs and rejecting the others... the header,
    including the time stamp, as well as the message body should be
    taken into account...

    Dupe checking in FTN is done via many methods - its implementation dependant. SBBSecho does not take the time stamp of the message
    into account when considering if a message is a duplicate.

    yeah, i think several of us have kinda come to that conclusion... especially since the main differences between monthly echo rules postings is the message's timedate stamp and the MSGID... at least in the case of my posting
    tool, those were all that were different... it is just a PITA when someone goes offtopic and you point them to the monthly rules postings on the 1st of each month and they haven't seen them at all because the postings were
    yanked out of distribution as false-positive dupes...

    [...]

    anyway, i'm done with this topic in this area... the discussion
    really belongs elsewhere for those that are truely interested in
    implementing proper duplicate detection in FTNs...

    Okay, then I guess you won't see this reply. <shrug>

    nah, i saw it... i just didn't want to overload this area with FTN talk about dupe message detections...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
    þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Al on Tue Apr 6 03:40:04 2021
    On 3/30/2021 9:16 PM, Al wrote:
    I don't want to defeat duplicate checking. If I do disable
    duplicate message checking then I will have message checking
    based solely on MSGID?

    Have you considered appendingprepending the date-time to your autopost content?
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Al@VERT/TRMB to Tracker1 on Tue Apr 6 09:53:30 2021
    Re: Re: sbbs as fidonet hub
    By: Tracker1 to Al on Mon Apr 05 2021 08:40 pm

    I don't want to defeat duplicate checking. If I do disable
    duplicate message checking then I will have message checking
    based solely on MSGID?

    Have you considered appendingprepending the date-time to your autopost content?

    On my own BBS the fact that messages are dropped doesn't concern me since we have already imported a message just like that.

    I am concerned about message flow within the networks. When a new (even if it has an identical message body but has a new msgid and time stamp) message is received it should be sent to linked nodes who may or may not have seen it already. Those nodes can decide for themselves if the message is a keeper.

    Duplicate checking is important and I don't want to defeat it. Synchronet has the best dupe checker I have encountered, and that's a good thing. It would be better (I think) if we also took into account the msgid and/or time stamp of new messages.

    My own BBS ads have a tagline so that makes each one unique and some folks add the current date to the body of their messages but folks shouldn't need to do that.

    An end node who simply consumes mail is different from a node that passes mail. A node that is passing mail needs to pass those new messages to it's linked nodes and it goes from there.

    SBBSecho has good intentions but I think it is a little to aggressive with dupes that have a different msgid and time stamp.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Deepend@VERT/RDBBS to Ragnarok on Thu Apr 8 07:05:55 2021
    Any detailed information on using SBBS as a hub for a FTN network? I have been wondering the same thing but Either I'm not looking hard enough or the FTN tools are still too new to have good documentation for certain uses but Any information on the procedures to setup a SBBS as a Hub for a FTN network would be appreciated.

    Thanks :)

    ---
    ­ Synchronet ­ RetroDigital BBS - rdnetbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Deepend on Thu Apr 8 14:35:00 2021
    Deepend wrote to Ragnarok <=-

    Any detailed information on using SBBS as a hub for a FTN network? I
    have been wondering the same thing but Either I'm not looking hard
    enough or the FTN tools are still too new to have good documentation
    for certain uses but Any information on the procedures to setup a SBBS
    as a Hub for a FTN network would be appreciated.

    I don't know what information's out there, some of the tools are a bit new.

    It's possible, I'm Fidonet RC10 and a hub for Micronet. I'm using Synchronet as a mailer/areafix manager and hosting file echoes. I'm using Makenl to create the nodelist segments and it all mostly works OK.

    Before this setup, I used Argus as a mailer, Allfix for file processing, and sbbsecho for message area requests and mail tossing.

    The only thing missing at this point, and I need to look into it more, is passthrough requests for file areas. I don't carry a lot of them, and would like to have the ability to pass on file echoes without hosting them.

    The wiki entries on binkit and tickit are pretty good. Nodelist support in Echocfg gets a little tricky if you're a hub for more than one network.

    The #synchronet IRC channel on DOVEnet is a good place to ask for help when you're setting things up. I'm usually on tilde.club lately, I'm currently going through a #trivia phase... :)


    ... How did you find this place?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Ragnarok@VERT/DOCKSUD to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Apr 9 04:22:40 2021
    El 8/4/21 a las 11:35, poindexter FORTRAN escribi¢:
    Deepend wrote to Ragnarok <=-

    De> Any detailed information on using SBBS as a hub for a FTN network? I
    De> have been wondering the same thing but Either I'm not looking hard
    De> enough or the FTN tools are still too new to have good documentation
    De> for certain uses but Any information on the procedures to setup a SBBS
    De> as a Hub for a FTN network would be appreciated.

    I don't know what information's out there, some of the tools are a bit new.

    It's possible, I'm Fidonet RC10 and a hub for Micronet. I'm using Synchronet as a mailer/areafix manager and hosting file echoes. I'm using Makenl to create the nodelist segments and it all mostly works OK.

    Very good, I'm thinking of being a hub.
    I am missing the part about using makeNL, but the documentation confuses
    me a bit, (unfortunately there is no documentation in Spanish yet)

    Can you share your expertise? i'm search for real world example for
    begin play with it

    Before this setup, I used Argus as a mailer, Allfix for file processing, and sbbsecho for message area requests and mail tossing.

    The only thing missing at this point, and I need to look into it more, is passthrough requests for file areas. I don't carry a lot of them, and would like to have the ability to pass on file echoes without hosting them.

    Using passthrough is not complicated, you have to configure in echocfg
    in each echolist it has the data of the areafix of your uplink
    and the "Forward AreaMgr Request" option to true.

    This makes the tags appear in areas.bbs with a P indicating that they
    are areas that you do not host. This works for my points


    The wiki entries on binkit and tickit are pretty good. Nodelist support in Echocfg gets a little tricky if you're a hub for more than one network.

    The #synchronet IRC channel on DOVEnet is a good place to ask for help when you're setting things up. I'm usually on tilde.club lately, I'm currently going through a #trivia phase... :)


    ... How did you find this place?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ¨ Synchronet ¨ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org


    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Dock Sud BBS TLD 24 HS - bbs.docksud.com.ar
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Deepend on Fri Apr 9 12:05:57 2021
    On 2021-04-08 1:05 a.m., Deepend wrote:
    Any detailed information on using SBBS as a hub for a FTN network? I have been
    wondering the same thing but Either I'm not looking hard enough or the FTN tools are still too new to have good documentation for certain uses but Any information on the procedures to setup a SBBS as a Hub for a FTN network would
    be appreciated.

    *waves*

    Hey Mike, long time to see. What are you wanting to do? I'm that other
    crazy Calgary guy and would be happy to help.

    ---
    ­ Synchronet ­ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From Underminer@VERT/UNDRMINE to Deepend on Sat Apr 10 10:49:36 2021
    On 2021-04-09 2:47 p.m., Deepend wrote:
    Hey underminer. Not sure what my exact plan is yet.. but want to set something
    up to test and learn so I actually can do something when its needed. Pretty sure I've actually sent you netmail or something within the last month.. or atleast I thought I did.. maybe it didn't go through for some reason.

    Well we should definitely get a direct route between our boards going
    again. And I've been off and on trying to drum up a few things and would
    like to take another swing at getting net 134 up again, and if we can do
    that then getting you setup as a/the echo hub in the net would give you
    some ability to play there. Maybe fire me an email at
    underminer@undermine.ca to start and then we'll make sure netmail can
    get back and forth.

    ---
    ­ Synchronet ­ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Deepend on Sat Apr 10 14:35:00 2021
    Deepend wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    If you could possibly share some more detail on how you have things
    setup it'd be very helpful. More detail the better if you don't mind
    :)


    I'll write something up. I did it all incrementally, so it'll be good to
    go over it all at once.



    ... Always the first steps
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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