• ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded

    From Warpslide@21:3/110.1 to All on Mon Dec 11 22:11:00 2023
    Hi All,

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

    Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly? I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.


    Jay

    ... Did you hear about the guy who tried to grab fog? He mist
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Warpslide on Wed Dec 13 10:37:28 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Warpslide to All on Mon Dec 11 2023 10:11 pm

    Howdy,

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

    This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display high ansi?

    On other messages (I guess in the ADS echo), does it show high ansi?

    (I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

    When clrghouz responds to a message, I re-use the CHRS kludge that the original message came with. (Since I display the original message with some additional (high) ansi chars - I've assumed this would be OK.) If the original message doesnt come with a CHRS kludge, I use "CP437 2".



    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From Vorlon@21:1/195 to Warpslide on Wed Dec 13 11:06:06 2023

    Hello Warpslide!

    11 Dec 23 22:11, you wrote to all:

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
    that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    This will do what you want. (I use it here)

    https://github.com/keaston/cp437



    Vorlon


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231021
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- Prt: 6800 (21:1/195)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to Warpslide on Tue Dec 12 18:14:18 2023
    Hello Warpslide,

    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 04:11:00 -0500, you wrote:

    Hi All,

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

    Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly? I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.

    1) Golded doesn't support ANSI codes, so ANSI looks like completely garbage regardless what you try.

    2) Golded doesn't support anything past the first 256 characters in the translation tables (.chs files). So this will result in some "high ascii" also not displaying properly.

    It will show basic ASCII blocks/shades (uncolored), or anything covered in the first 256 characters of the CP437 charset, but nothing above and beyond that.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to deon on Tue Dec 12 18:18:50 2023
    Hello deon,

    On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:37:28 +1100, you wrote:

    This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display
    high ansi?

    Yes, both. ;)

    (I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader
    high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

    That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4" CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to Vorlon on Tue Dec 12 18:32:50 2023
    Hello Vorlon,

    On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 17:06:06 +1100, you wrote:

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
    that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    This will do what you want. (I use it here)

    https://github.com/keaston/cp437

    You use that with Golded and are able to see ANSI posted in message bases while in Golded?

    I'd like to know more on how you do this. I just compiled it and tried:

    cp437 gedlnx -C/path/to/config

    It looked way worse than how I normally run Golded in tmux. My terminal is definitely UTF-8, with all the LANG and LC_* variables set. ;(

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Jay Harris@21:3/110.1 to deon on Tue Dec 12 19:06:08 2023
    On Wednesday December 13 2023, deon said the following...

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
    that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

    This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display
    high ansi?

    This seems to be a GoldED thing. Messages display fine in Mystic for me with Netrunner.

    On other messages (I guess in the ADS echo), does it show high ansi?

    (I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader
    high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

    When clrghouz responds to a message, I re-use the CHRS kludge that the original message came with. (Since I display the original message with some additional (high) ansi chars - I've assumed this would be OK.) If
    the original message doesnt come with a CHRS kludge, I use "CP437 2".

    GoldED seems to read/use the CHRS kludge. I had messages from Clearing Houz displaying OK with the CP437 2 kludge but the ASCII 1 messages were still somewhat garbled. Playing around with my golded.cfg it now displays both ok.

    I used some guidance from:
    https://fidopedia.fido.de/index.php?title=Golded_cfg

    And made some adjustments to add in the UTF-8 lines.

    XLATPATH /home/ubuntu/.golded/charset/

    INCLUDE /home/ubuntu/.golded/charsets.cfg

    XLATCHARSET AUTO CP437 437_437.chs

    XLATCHARSET CP437 IBMPC 850_ibm.chs
    XLATCHARSET CP437 LATIN-1 850_iso.chs
    XLATCHARSET CP437 UTF-8 437_u8.chs
    XLATCHARSET CP850 IBMPC 850_ibm.chs
    XLATCHARSET CP850 LATIN-1 850_iso.chs
    XLATCHARSET CP850 UTF-8 850_u8.chs
    XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 UTF-8 iso1_u8.chs
    ; wrong but working
    XLATCHARSET CP866 IBMPC 866_850.chs
    XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 IBMPC iso_ibm.chs
    XLATCHARSET LATIN-1 LATIN-1 iso_iso.chs
    XLATCHARSET MAC IBMPC mac_ibm.chs

    XLATIMPORT CP437
    XLATEXPORT UTF-8
    XLATLOCALSET LATIN-1


    Even with these, BBS Ads still look like this:

    https://ibb.co/fdy8X3k


    Jay

    ... I wouldn't buy anything with velcro. It's a total rip-off
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Accession on Wed Dec 13 12:39:51 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Accession to Warpslide on Tue Dec 12 2023 06:14 pm

    1) Golded doesn't support ANSI codes, so ANSI looks like completely garbage regardless what you try.

    2) Golded doesn't support anything past the first 256 characters in the translation tables (.chs files). So this will result in some "high ascii" also not displaying properly.

    It will show basic ASCII blocks/shades (uncolored), or anything covered in the first 256 characters of the CP437 charset, but nothing above and beyond that.

    So in that screen shot, its a message generated by clrghouz.

    There is not any ANSI codes (or shouldnt be), and the graphic is only CP437 chars (first 256 chars of the CP437 charset).


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Accession on Wed Dec 13 12:42:36 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Accession to deon on Tue Dec 12 2023 06:18 pm

    Howdy,

    This may be a kludge CHRS related issue - or that golded cant display high ansi?

    Yes, both. ;)

    Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

    (I recall that when messages have "UTF-8 4", depending on the reader high ansi messages dont display well - but havent looked further than that.)

    That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4" CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

    Hmm... Maybe I should parse the message and force it back to CP437 if there is nothing about UTF-8 about it. (For this case, havent seen the original message to see if it was UTF-8).


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to deon on Tue Dec 12 21:23:30 2023
    Hello deon,

    On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:39:50 +1100, you wrote:

    So in that screen shot, its a message generated by clrghouz.

    There is not any ANSI codes (or shouldnt be), and the graphic is only
    CP437 chars (first 256 chars of the CP437 charset).

    I went into Golded and looked at the Clearing Houz test message response. All characters display fine here, but the line drawing stuff under the block is wrapped wierd.

    That said, Warpslide can use these settings in golded.conf:

    xlatpath /path/to/golded-plus/cfgs/charset
    include /path/to/golded-plus/cfgs/config/charsets.cfg

    xlatimport cp437
    xlatexport <pick one>
    xlatlocalset <pick one>

    xlatimport - specifies the codepage to use for incoming messages IF there is no CHRS kludge. So assume CP437 or CP850, depending on where you live, I guess.

    xlatexport - specifies what CHRS kludge you want your outgoing messages to have.

    xlatlocalset - your local terminal's charset or locale.

    Hope that helps!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to deon on Tue Dec 12 21:34:48 2023
    Hello deon,

    On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 18:42:36 +1100, you wrote:

    Yes, both. ;)

    Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

    Sort of. Quoted from Wikipedia:

    "Extended ASCII is a repertoire of character encodings that include (most of) the original 96 ASCII character set, plus up to 128 additional characters. There is no formal definition of "extended ASCII", and even use of the term is sometimes criticized,[1][2][3] because it can be mistakenly interpreted to mean that the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) had updated its ANSI X3.4-1986 standard to include more characters, or that the term identifies a single unambiguous encoding, neither of which is the case."

    I suppose the correct term would be "extended ascii", but it has been called "high ascii" also for a long time.

    That's because ANSI should definitely not be posted with a "UTF-8 4"
    CHRS kludge. ANSI should be posted with a CP437 CHRS kludge. Most
    telnet/terminal programs default to CP437 *and* support ANSI. Golded
    only does one of the two (supports CP437, but doesn't support ANSI).

    Hmm... Maybe I should parse the message and force it back to CP437 if
    there is nothing about UTF-8 about it. (For this case, havent seen the original message to see if it was UTF-8).

    Even if there were anything UTF-8 about it, I wouldn't use a UTF-8 CHRS kludge while posting an ANSI. Use CP437, and in not-so-often cases, CP850 if it's a norm on the other side of the pond.

    Also keep in mind, a lot of people that started with Mystic or Synchronet may not know any better, but where ANSI is displayed fine on their BBS and in their BBSs message bases. Anyone else using Golded, Timed, Msged, any offline readers, or any kind of NNTP readers.. basically anywhere NOT using a BBS that supports reading/writing in message bases, can not view those ANSIs in message bases.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Accession on Wed Dec 13 20:55:25 2023
    Hi Accession,

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great,
    except that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    This will do what you want. (I use it here)

    https://github.com/keaston/cp437

    You use that with Golded and are able to see ANSI posted in message
    bases while in Golded?

    In my haist, I left out the bit about only doing high ascii....

    It looked way worse than how I normally run Golded in tmux. My
    terminal is definitely UTF-8, with all the LANG and LC_* variables
    set. ;(

    I just use the standard mate terminal in linux mint, and high ascii is displayed with no issues.


    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen

    Rocking Amiga 3000 powerd, Linux M68K.



    --- Talisman v0.51-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Orphan@21:2/119 to Warpslide on Tue Dec 12 03:05:19 2023

    Hello Warpslide!

    11 Dec 23 22:11, you wrote to all:

    Hi All,

    I have golded setup & going in Linux and it's working great, except
    that ANSI & High ASCII aren't displaying properly:

    https://ibb.co/Nn7sQCM

    Does anyone have any pointers on how to make that display properly?
    I'm SSH'ing into Ubuntu 22.04 (64 bit) on a VPS.


    Jay

    ... Did you hear about the guy who tried to grab fog? He mist
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)

    As far as I know, GoldEd/GoldEd+ editors can't display ANSI.

    Regards,
    Orphan


    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Digital Asylum BBS - bbs.digitalasylum.com.ar:2323 (21:2/119)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to vorlon on Wed Dec 13 18:00:18 2023
    Hello vorlon,

    On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:55:24 +1100, you wrote:

    I just use the standard mate terminal in linux mint, and high ascii is displayed with no issues.

    Then same here. As soon as you try to add ansi codes to it, it becomes unsupported.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Digital Man@21:1/183 to deon on Fri Dec 15 20:27:12 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: deon to Accession on Wed Dec 13 2023 12:42 pm

    Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

    "high ASCII" (which itself isn't really a thing)
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #90:
    XON = Transmit On (ASCII 17, Ctrl-Q)
    Norco, CA WX: 64.7шF, 25.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (21:1/183)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Digital Man on Sat Dec 16 15:30:08 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Digital Man to deon on Fri Dec 15 2023 08:27 pm

    Just so that I know that I'm using the correct term - high ansi is above 128 (and below 256) right?

    "high ASCII" (which itself isn't really a thing)

    Ahh, yes, I meant ASCII not ANSI.

    So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to deon on Sat Dec 16 06:11:36 2023
    Hello deon,

    On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:30:08 +1100, you wrote:

    So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Accession on Sun Dec 17 00:18:20 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Accession to deon on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:11 am

    On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:30:08 +1100, you wrote:

    So it seems golded cannot display (printable) chars above 128...

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Oh, OK.

    Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using # for the ASCII > 127?

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From Jay Harris@21:3/110.1 to deon on Sat Dec 16 09:34:32 2023
    On Sunday December 17 2023, deon said the following...

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Oh, OK.

    Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or
    did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using #
    for the ASCII > 127?

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when
    you link your system - I should change that...)

    Yeah, my GoldED doesn't display Extended/High ASCII. I'm SSH'ing into a VPS, not using a GUI which might have
    something to do with it.


    Jay

    ... I have a collection of candy canes. They're all in mint condition
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231112
    * Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110.1)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to deon on Sat Dec 16 19:56:46 2023
    Hello deon,

    On Sun, 17 Dec 2023 06:18:20 +1100, you wrote:

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Oh, OK.

    Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or did
    you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using # for the ASCII > 127?

    I did say they were displaying just fine here. Both on Golded as well as Smapinntpd with Claws Mail (uses the same character translation files).

    I also gave the settings needed for anyone to get it to work in Golded.

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when
    you link your system - I should change that...)

    That's up to you. If most people are reading from a BBS, then the majority of people can probably see it just fine. But if you have a bunch of Golded users, then maybe changing it up to ASCII would be more suited?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From Accession@21:1/200 to Jay Harris on Sat Dec 16 20:00:34 2023
    Hello Jay,

    On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 15:34:32 -0500, you wrote:

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Oh, OK.

    Then I'm wondering why the clrghouz messages are not displaying? Or
    did you say yours was, but somebody else (I think Jay?) was using #
    for the ASCII > 127?

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail
    when you link your system - I should change that...)

    Yeah, my GoldED doesn't display Extended/High ASCII. I'm SSH'ing into a VPS, not using a GUI which might have
    something to do with it.

    No need to use a GUI. Check back a dozen messages or so, and try the settings I posted to see if they work for you.

    I happen to use tmux with Golded, but I don't think that ever had much of an effect on whether extended ascii displayed or not. I think I went that route when I was working on getting UTF-8 characters to display properly.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- Claws Mail 4.2.0 (GTK 3.24.38; x86_64-w64-mingw32)
    * Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (21:1/200.0)
  • From apam@21:1/182 to deon on Sun Dec 17 12:29:28 2023

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)


    Although your netmail ansi's look cool (i've gotten a few :)) I'd say probably best to stick to plain ascii, as it's a service for lots of people you'd probably want to cater for the lowest common denominator.

    I'd probably even stick to ordinary ascii and not use the high ascii as well.

    I hate suggesting it because they all look really good, and I am sure most people can cope with the high ascii, but no doubt there will be someone trying to interface with a potato that can't speak anything but the most basic characters.

    :)

    Andrew


    --- Noddy git-2b71c36
    * Origin: Smuggler's Cove - scove.talismanbbs.com:2323 (21:1/182)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to Accession on Sun Dec 17 14:16:20 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: Accession to deon on Sat Dec 16 2023 07:56 pm

    Sure it can. It just can't display ANSI.

    Oh, OK.

    I did say they were displaying just fine here. Both on Golded as well as Smapinntpd with Claws Mail (uses the same character translation files).

    I also gave the settings needed for anyone to get it to work in Golded.

    Ahh, awesome. I think I understand now. Glad it does work (as I hoped).

    Thanks...


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)
  • From deon@21:2/116 to apam on Sun Dec 17 14:22:30 2023
    Re: ANSI & ASCII w/ Golded
    By: apam to deon on Sun Dec 17 2023 12:29 pm

    The clrghouz messages dont use any ANSI (well except the netmail when you link your system - I should change that...)

    Although your netmail ansi's look cool (i've gotten a few :)) I'd say probably best to stick to plain ascii, as it's a service for lots of people you'd probably want to cater for the lowest common denominator.

    I'd probably even stick to ordinary ascii and not use the high ascii as well.

    I hate suggesting it because they all look really good, and I am sure most people can cope with the high ascii, but no doubt there will be someone trying to interface with a potato that can't speak anything but the most basic characters.

    Thanks :)

    Yeah, I actually dont want to loose it - so I might even add a flag, so folks can switch it to low ASCII for their system if they want (I dont think anybody will...). I also tried to keep the appropriate text away from the high ASCII, so that even if it is garbled, you can atleast read the rest of the message to understand why you got it.

    I'll have a play...

    (I'm hoping that others (which includes you), that as you develop for this old tech, you do get to exploit what it could have done - before it wasnt superceeded by GUI, graphics and the internet... :))


    ...лоеп
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (21:2/116)