Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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Hello Avon!

On 16 Jul 2023, Avon said the following...

Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some
reprieve soon.

Thanks! Hot and humid here (although not nearly as bad here as in the more central parts of Europe), and vegetation could use some rain for sure...

Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

Sounds cozy! :)

Best regards
Zip

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Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some
reprieve soon.

Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at, in Southern California.

And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

It was previously predicted that it was going to be 43C today, but thankfully for those who have to suffer outdoor temperatures here, it's at least a little bit further from record highs.

But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

Though I will be glad to get back to Germany, for green plants and hopefully better air quality, where it's slightly more pleasant to take a walk outside.

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Avon wrote to All <=-

Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side
of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

I'm on the California coast, and we're on a sliver of land with a
reprieve from the heat. Friends of ours came from the San Francisco bay
area yesterday to escape the heat at our house - it was 40C at their
house and a comfortable 24c here with a nice ocean breeze.



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BY: Adept (21:2/108)

|11A|09> |10Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at,|07
|11A|09> |10in Southern California.|07
Im going to a concert this evening in Hollywood. Oh vey! im packing my sunscreen.


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And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my
rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

It was >100F today where I live, and I got to help my wife set up and tear down a stall for an art show. And I sunburn very easily. It was ... a day. lol.

We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent. Naturally the costs increase the closer you are to water but it's just the two of us and a dog so we don't need much.

But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely spoiled.

My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his AC 24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

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Adept wrote to Avon <=-

But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

I always think of a guy I knew in high school. Joined the army as soon
as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
80 percent humidity.

I sweat just imagining him running in fatigues, a t-shirt and combat
boots.




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esc wrote to Adept <=-

We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the
next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent.

How far south are you thinking of going?

I moved to the Califormia coast in 2015, and I'm glad I did so. Cooler
weather, fog you can usually set your watch by, and more consistent
temps, as you're looking for.

During 2020-2021, we saw a ton of people move "over the hill" from San
Jose to Santa Cruz/Capitola/Aptos, when people realized you could work
from home and buy a hell of a lot more out here - and hopefully they're
enjoying the beach lifestyle.

Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
area, seem to be catching up.



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It was >100F today where I live, and I got to help my wife set up and
tear down a stall for an art show. And I sunburn very easily. It was ...
a day. lol.

Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despite the heat?

We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the
next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent. Naturally the costs increase the closer

Yeah, inland is... rough. But there are reasons why most of the people live closer to the coast, and this is where there are a _lot_ of warehouses.

I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely spoiled.

Yeah, if I had any choice in the matter...

I guess there are probably still some AC possibilities in Germany, but society is largely not set up for them. So a bit more of a challenge. And, at this point I'm just renting a room, so making more permanent changes seems unlikely.

My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his AC
24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

Well, if you also live in a place where the hot times are also super sunny.

Solar in Las Vegas sounds like it'd work _way_ better than most other places.

But I suppose it provides power anywhere, as long as there's sunshine.

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esc wrote to Adept <=-

But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely
spoiled.

My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his
AC 24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So
the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
savings on the utility bill)?

Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)



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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: Gamgee to esc on Mon Jul 17 2023 10:17 am

But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
savings on the utility bill)?

Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

Actually, modern solar may actually be able to recoup costs before you need big maintenance expenses, but you do need a badass apocalypse-class setup for it to be really worth it.

A lot of people in Spain invested in 3k EUR solar arrays without battery packs. When you add up the power they produce for you and the discount money you get by selling surpluss power to the grid, I think an average house here may save 50% of its power bill tops during the first years, and only in favorable months.

If your house uses electricity for either heating or air conditioning, I don't think a 3k EUR solar array is gonna make a dent in your power bill, though.
You will save some money and will recoup your expenses in about 10 years, but the total savings would be a bit pitiful compared to your total consumption.

If you want to spend money in order to get a return you are better off buying Telefónica stocks and getting the dividentds pay you back in about 8 years. Certainly that is what I would be doing if I had 3k EUR spare and wanted to put them in production: it is a better investment than solar. Just use the dividends to pay for the expenses of your AC if you have one XD

IMO solar is the sort of thing you think about when you need your own energy supply for practical reasons, such as your power grid sucking 24/7 because they can't bother to regulate the voltage you get. Or because you are a privacy enthusiast who does not want the power company to ellaborate a consumption profile of your power use :-P

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I always think of a guy I knew in high school. Joined the army as soon
as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
80 percent humidity.

I had Basic Training in July and August. It was brutal. And then Airborne school back at Benning in July once again. Ugh...

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How far south are you thinking of going?

We're thinking Orange County or San Diego County (but pretty far north). We'd like to be ~5 miles or so from the beach - far enough not to be buried by the marine layer, close enough not to have any real weather fluctuations.

I moved to the Califormia coast in 2015, and I'm glad I did so. Cooler
weather, fog you can usually set your watch by, and more consistent
temps, as you're looking for.

Yeah, I lived in Pacifica for a bit and this was my experience. Right now I live south of San Jose in the Almaden Valley and it's brutally hot right now. Then again everything east of the Santa Cruz mountains is brutally hot right now.

During 2020-2021, we saw a ton of people move "over the hill" from San
Jose to Santa Cruz/Capitola/Aptos, when people realized you could work
from home and buy a hell of a lot more out here - and hopefully they're
enjoying the beach lifestyle.

We planned to move during that time but I was warned that we'd all return to in-office work once the pandemic slowed. Stupid job.

Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
area, seem to be catching up.

This is true in many areas farther away from major population centers. Yet prices in the cities don't seem to be on the decline...which is weird.

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Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despite
the heat?

Sadly no, but it's all good :)

Yeah, inland is... rough. But there are reasons why most of the people live closer to the coast, and this is where there are a _lot_ of warehouses.

Yep 100%. Though I'm relatively close to the coast and it's still warm at my place. The Bay Area is kinda weird, though, due to the mountains and valley and stuff.

Yeah, if I had any choice in the matter...

I guess there are probably still some AC possibilities in Germany, but society is largely not set up for them. So a bit more of a challenge.
And, at this point I'm just renting a room, so making more permanent changes seems unlikely.

One thing I never understood about Germany is why there is no air conditioner, so you have to keep the windows open, but there is no screen in the window so bugs can get in!

Solar in Las Vegas sounds like it'd work _way_ better than most other places.

But I suppose it provides power anywhere, as long as there's sunshine.

Yeah, I'd be curious to see how solar would work in other places. Nevertheless, reducing reliance on the power grid feels like a win-win.

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But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
savings on the utility bill)?

Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

No idea, but he said getting solar was a great decision. He even charges his RV with his solar hookup, and at night his pool is heated. So he's consuming a lot of energy.

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Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
savings on the utility bill)?

Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

Actually, modern solar may actually be able to recoup costs
before you need bigmaintenance expenses, but you do need a badass apocalypse-class setup for it tobe really worth it.

A lot of people in Spain invested in 3k EUR solar arrays without
battery packs.When you add up the power they produce for you and
the discount money you get by selling surpluss power to the grid,
I think an average house here may save 50% of its power bill tops
during the first years, and only in favorable months.

I can't speak much to how things are in Spain. But here in the US, at
least here in Florida, I have to repel the solar salesmen from my front
porch a couple of times a month. The costs for getting enough solar to
be useful here is *FAR* higher than what you are saying (3K EUR). On
the order of TEN TIMES that, at least. My power bill in the summer
(which is long and hot here in Florida) probably averages around $300/mo
USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo would
come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that rate,
to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest. At
that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must be replaced, so I have saved/gained nothing. More likely I have lost a significant amount of money. That's the reality, at least here.

If your house uses electricity for either heating or air
conditioning, I don't think a 3k EUR solar array is gonna make a
dent in your power bill, though. You will save some money and
will recoup your expenses in about 10 years, but the total
savings would be a bit pitiful compared to your total
consumption.

See above. This is orders of magnitude different where I am.

Bottom line is that until the panels/cells get MUCH better, and the cost
comes down a lot, solar is a losing proposition around here.


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esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
savings on the utility bill)?

Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

No idea, but he said getting solar was a great decision. He even
charges his RV with his solar hookup, and at night his pool is
heated. So he's consuming a lot of energy.

Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any further,
but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what the
situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally considered a
blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is
just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)



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BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

|11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo would |07
|11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that rate, |07
|11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest. At|07
|11G|09> |07
|11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must be |07

I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years ago, got a 4.2kw setup, and it was ~14k USD to get it installed. Our power went from on average $500 a month (it's 113F outside today) to ~$50. It's been quite the boon, <4 years to pay it back.

Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks, but we'll have this paid for for over 17 years before that hits us. Also power is more in CA than anywhere else in the US. The nice part is running the AC and not stressing about it, since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the summer and 300% in the winter.

Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's not a one size fits all.

|11r|09ushfan|07



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Rushfan wrote to Gamgee <=-

BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

|11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo wou

ld |07

|11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that ra

te, |07

|11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest.

At|07

|11G|09> |07
|11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must b

e |07

I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years
ago, got a 4.2kw setup, and it was ~14k USD to get it installed.
Our power went from on average $500 a month (it's 113F outside
today) to ~$50. It's been quite the boon, <4 years to pay it
back.

Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for
new folks, but we'll have this paid for for over 17 years before
that hits us. Also power is more in CA than anywhere else in the
US. The nice part is running the AC and not stressing about it,
since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the
summer and 300% in the winter.

Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not,
there's not a one size fits all.

That's a great point, and sounds like it's working great for you. It
does seem strange to me how there is such fluctuation in the
installation costs, and how much it affects the actual power bill.

For me, for now, it's still firmly in the "Not ready for prime time"
category.



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esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

We're thinking Orange County or San Diego County (but pretty far
north). We'd like to be ~5 miles or so from the beach - far enough not
to be buried by the marine layer, close enough not to have any real weather fluctuations.

I love Carlsbad - felt like a bit of Santa Cruz in socal. La Jolla is
pretty, too - but pricey.

This is true in many areas farther away from major population centers.
Yet prices in the cities don't seem to be on the decline...which is
weird.

Yep, sellers and landlords are trailing indicators - won't lower prices
until they have to.




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Gamgee wrote to esc <=-

Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any
further, but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what
the situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally
considered a blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)

In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar Shysters
offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get the tax
breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments back to
the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.



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Rushfan wrote to Gamgee <=-

Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's
not a one size fits all.

I need to spend a little more time on the math. I tried, with higher-than-normal baseline usage and one PHEV car, and it said solar
would be paid off in 20 years or so.



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Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: Avon to All on Sun Jul 16 2023 03:59 pm

Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record - It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

Nightfox
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BY: poindexter FORTRAN (21:4/122)

|11pF|09> |10 In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar Shysters|07
|11pF|09> |10 offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get the tax|07
|11pF|09> |10 breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments back to|07
|11pF|09> |10 the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.|07

Agreed, they really push to try to do that, one thing is always true. Never ever ever ever lease a solar system. The "buyout" price is more than new, and if you ever sell your house, the solar company has to approve the buyer and the buyer has to assume the lease (which is never a good deal, especially towards the end of the lease).

By the buyout price being more, I mean specifically let's say you had 2 years left at $200 a month for the lease payment ($2400), a buyout price may be $3000. Seriously. Wowza.

|11r|09ushfan|07



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Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despit the heat?

Sadly no, but it's all good :)

I guess people were being sensible. Darn them!

at my place. The Bay Area is kinda weird, though, due to the mountains
and valley and stuff.

San Francisco is super odd. The west side might be nice and cloudy, with Karl (the fog) keeping things cool, and the east side is sunny and getting somewhat hot. And it'll be like that for days in a row.

It's a great place for looking at microclimates. But go over to, oh, Wisconsin, and, sure, heat islands in cities or whatever, but you travel some distance, and the weather will generally be _almost_ the same, or just kinda random on where the exact storm path goes.

One thing I never understood about Germany is why there is no air conditioner, so you have to keep the windows open, but there is no
screen in the window so bugs can get in!

I have also found that odd, though it _is_ possible to get screens, though they're more the type you shove in the window every time you open it, than something permanent.

That said, in Wisconsin, a lack of screens means you _will_ be eaten alive by mosquitos. In Germany, yeah, things fly in occasionally, there _are_ some insects around, and getting the occasional stinging insect in the house is a definite risk, but the level of annoyance is significantly lower.

Yeah, I'd be curious to see how solar would work in other places. Nevertheless, reducing reliance on the power grid feels like a win-win.

Yeah. And I think most of us have some level of fantasy about at least kinda-sorta living off the grid. (But with good internet and/or a link to BBSs)

I'd experiment with solar, but I have a room with a North-facing window, so the concept seems largely wasted on me, as tempted as I am to pick up portable solar panels.

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as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
80 percent humidity.

I guess that sounds like better conditions than the stuff they've been suffering through on the front lines of Russia's war in Ukraine, even ignoring the death and destruction.

So maybe good training, but, yeah, not something I'd want to deal with.

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Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
area, seem to be catching up.

I'm still sad that, for all the negative news about San Francisco, housing costs are still super high.

But there's not really anywhere out there that's both pleasant to live and cheap to live.

On the other hand, if I moved there as a software developer, I could probably at least double my salary, so tradeoffs, I guess.

Not quite the same for all the people doing retail or whatever, though, I think. Wages are higher, but probably not enough higher, to make it especially workable.

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By the buyout price being more, I mean specifically let's say you had 2 years left at $200 a month for the lease payment ($2400), a buyout price may be $3000. Seriously. Wowza.

"I'm going to give you more money now, and in exchange I will get to give you an additional $600."

...yeah, that sounds more like, "unclear on the concept" or "you are a criminal in any sensible system".

That would be enraging.

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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any
further, but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what
the situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally
considered a blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)

In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar
Shysters
offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get
the tax
breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments
back to
the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.

I'm sure that is very true. Likely also true here.

Maybe in another decade (or two), solar might be a useful thing. Unless
we perfect nuclear fusion first. Then, everything else won't really
matter, and will quickly fade away.



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I love Carlsbad - felt like a bit of Santa Cruz in socal. La Jolla is
pretty, too - but pricey.

Carlsbad is where my parents live, and part of the incentive for us to move is to be closer to family (I also have a sister and her husband in SD proper).

And yeah, Carlsbad is awesome! But we may pick somewhere closer to LA because my wife has some roots there, and it's probably safer in case of any job related changes in the future.

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San Francisco is super odd. The west side might be nice and cloudy, with Karl (the fog) keeping things cool, and the east side is sunny and
getting somewhat hot. And it'll be like that for days in a row.

I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

That said, in Wisconsin, a lack of screens means you _will_ be eaten
alive by mosquitos. In Germany, yeah, things fly in occasionally, there _are_ some insects around, and getting the occasional stinging insect in the house is a definite risk, but the level of annoyance is
significantly lower.

Sometimes at my house I like to leave the floor to ceiling windows open to get a nice breeze. My wife believes doing so will wind up with our house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't have many bugs here at all.

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On the other hand, if I moved there as a software developer, I could probably at least double my salary, so tradeoffs, I guess.

It's interesting, engineers in the Bay Area objectively make a boatload of cash compared to folks elsewhere, but it doesn't go far. There's no shortage of 30+ year olds making $100k+ per year having to look for roommates so that they can afford an apartment.

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I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record -
It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We
do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get
quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

For last couple of years in Central Poland where I live both summer months keep temperature over 30C every day for about a month, with some daily drops down to 25-28C if there is some northern/eastern wind or one day raining.

Other than that we have Nevada weather more than Minnesota weather in summer if I was looking for some analogies.

But I'm pretty sure Minnessota may also get a lot of new heat that was not used to observe in past decades.

But to be honest we also experience short but intense winters, with regular snow (just few inches but it stays on the ground outside cities).

Negative 10C for 2-3 weeks is also something I'm used to experience.

What we don't have as usual is Spring. When freeze ends we almost immediately have 1-2 weeks of heavy raining and storms and temperature raises from 0 to 16 over the period of March and in April it's not unusual to see 20+ quite often. May is already summer with 25 on regular basis.

I'm talking Celcius all the time.

Autumn is more or less OK and standard. Temperatures drop in early October. Some rain but usually nice weather that becomes chilly in November. Days become dark and trees are full of colors as usual then to become wooden skeletons and by mid of November you can see first snow from time to time and negative temperatures hitting in.

But that's country side. My friends in 1M+ cities cannot say they've seen snow the same way as I do... and in summer they have 3-5 degrees more. Something for something If like like concrete and glass as your neighbor.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: hollowone to Nightfox on Wed Jul 19 2023 05:14 am

For last couple of years in Central Poland where I live both summer months keep temperature over 30C every day for about a month, with some daily drops down to 25-28C if there is some northern/eastern wind or one day raining.

Other than that we have Nevada weather more than Minnesota weather in summer if I was looking for some analogies.

But I'm pretty sure Minnessota may also get a lot of new heat that was not used to observe in past decades.

But to be honest we also experience short but intense winters, with regular snow (just few inches but it stays on the ground outside cities).

Negative 10C for 2-3 weeks is also something I'm used to experience.

What we don't have as usual is Spring. When freeze ends we almost immediately have 1-2 weeks of heavy raining and storms and temperature raises from 0 to 16 over the period of March and in April it's not unusual to see 20+ quite often. May is already summer with 25 on regular basis.

Sounds like interesting weather there..
I don't really like hot summer weather; I tend to prefer cooler autumn/winter weather. And I suppose it's not too bad where I am - Summer can get hot, but that usually doesn't last too long and it's not the hottest place. Also, autumn is nice here, and winter is usually fairly mild - we have freezing temperatures, but usually that's just overnight, and we don't get much snow (and when we do, it usually doesn't last long).

Nightfox
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I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

I guess that's why people live in Pacifica, despite those commutes being horrifying.

But probably much nicer if you're working remotely or only going in a couple days a week.

house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't
have many bugs here at all.

And then the bugs that _do_ come in, well, that's what spiders are for.

My brother, who's about midway between San Francisco and San Jose, mostly suffers from ants, and window opening is irrelevant for those.

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Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

But there's not really anywhere out there that's both pleasant to live
and cheap to live.

Bakersfield, CA is getting on the radar. Lots of land, cheap real
estate, decent internet, a small-town feel, and it's about 2 hours from
Silicon Valley, in case you need to do a day a week in the office.

I'd be leery of the central valley in California, you don't need to
leave the urban areas very far to get into some sketchy politics.

I think agricultural tech is going to be a bigger thing; that's a
business where incremental optimizations can make a huge difference.
Salinas and Gilroy both have co-working spaces popping up in the middle
of very old-school ag-centric businesses.

There are some interesting, quaint, relatively inexpensive towns on the
central coast, but the kicker is schools. The public schools are pretty
good for elementary, mediocre at best for middle school, and the high
schools test poorly. If schools aren't an issue, that opens up a ton of
cool places that are still relatively in-range of silicon valley a
couple of days a week.




... Think - inside the work -outside the work
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esc wrote to Adept <=-

I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute
was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

Aptos to San Jose/Santa Clara, here. One habit I got into was changing
into flip-flops in the parking lot of the office for the drive home, to
get me in the home mindset. I'd pick up my daughter from day care, they
had an ocean view and I'd see the sun going down in the summer time. It
makes the drive worth it.

Sometimes at my house I like to leave the floor to ceiling windows open
to get a nice breeze. My wife believes doing so will wind up with our house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't
have many bugs here at all.

Mosquitos aren't much of a concern around here, but we get big dumb
flies. One of my dogs hates when they get in the house and will hunt
them down relentlessly, jumping from couch to chair to try and get
them. Then, after all the exertion, he will nap.



... Don't give Chad a big neural network
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esc wrote to Adept <=-

It's interesting, engineers in the Bay Area objectively make a boatload
of cash compared to folks elsewhere, but it doesn't go far. There's no shortage of 30+ year olds making $100k+ per year having to look for roommates so that they can afford an apartment.

The lifestyle doesn't help, either. I thought about how much money I
spent going out to lunch in San Francisco, San Jose and Berkeley pretty
much every day from 1991 until 2015. Thought if I'd brought leftovers
and invested my lunch money, I'd be in a better place financially now.

I married in 1996, so I wasn't going out to bars at night a lot. If I'd
added the cost of a couple of drinks during the week to the investment
pool, even better!

Aside: I read about a group of software people, who in 2020 got sick of
paying 3-4K each for studios and one bedroom apartments in San
Francisco. They all moved out, quarantined for 2 weeks, and rented a
huge place in the hills in San Diego, with lots of land, a pool, hot
tub, tennis court, and a bedroom for each of them, for the same price as
their single residences. They shopped collectively and did that for a
year. Added a few more people and moved somewhere else after a year -
all while working remotely.

I felt sorry for all of the people paying inflated prices for housing in
San Francisco when the night life, culture and dining closed down.
Yes, it's great being close to work, but when your office is closed,
you're paying all the premium with none of the benefits.







... YORGAMAK HAS ARRIVED AND WILL INITIATE DESTRUCTIMATION.
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Bakersfield, CA is getting on the radar. Lots of land, cheap real
estate, decent internet, a small-town feel, and it's about 2 hours from Silicon Valley, in case you need to do a day a week in the office.

Every time I drive south down the 5 past Bakersfield I can't get the smell of that huge cow pasture out of my nose for what feels like days. It's literally the worst thing I've ever smelled in my entire life.

You know the one I'm talking about, the one right off the freeway that looks like a huge cow slum?

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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: Rushfan to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 2023 03:40 am

BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

|11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo |11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at tha |11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering inter |11G|09> |07
|11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and mu

I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years ago, got a 4. ack.

Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks, ut it, since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the summe

Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's not a o

|11r|09ushfan|07

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I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely.

We still have a power subscription but we draw zero Watts from it. The main switch is closed. I am still to convince my family to cancel the power subscription.


We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to recharge them or to just power the house.

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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: Rushfan to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 2023 03:40 am

Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks,

BTW, did you install battery cells?

If your setup does not include battery cells then I think it is a bit expensive compared to here.

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I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely. Ar> We still have a power subscription but we draw zero Watts from it. The Ar> main switch is closed. I am still to convince my family to cancel the Ar> power subscription.Awesome.I have a 10kW system at home here in Australia but don't have any batteries yet. During the summer here I can run the ducted aircon (and it's absolutely needed because it hits 47C/117F here) and still be exporting to the grid.I'm so glad I have it because I just received a notification that my power rates are going up to AUD42.6c/kWh from 1 August. One year ago I was paying 19.25c/kWh.

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We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to
recharge them or to just power the house.

What's the economic gain you have from this setup?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

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BY: Arelor (21:2/138)

|11A|09> |10BTW, did you install battery cells?|07
|11A|09> |07
|11A|09> |10If your setup does not include battery cells then I think it is a bit|07
|11A|09> |10expensive|07
|11A|09> |10compared to here.|07

We didn't install battery yet for some complicate reasons, but plan to at some point. Also bought the house new, which meant (in california) it has to have solar and it comes with the house, so the builder and solar company don't offer different options and have no incentive to discount. That said the solar works well and my power is essentially free.

|11r|09ushfan|07



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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: Ewing to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 2023 09:30 pm

I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely. Ar> We

e a 10kW system at home here in Australia but don't have any batteries yet. st received a notification that my power rates are going up to AUD42.6c/kWh --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Mortal BBS - bbs.mortalbbs.com:23 (21:3/153)

Heh, I think you missed your format. Don't worry, because my editor also messes up itself.

I went with batteries because I don't trust the government. The smart-grid system we have here is designed for the government and power companies to leech from home solar production. Once you deduct taxes and grid tolls, it
turns out any kwh you pour into the grid is worth 1/6 the value of a kwh from the grid.

And the problem is the government or power companies may change the deal any time they see fit.

If you have a battery pack, you have a certain degree of security in that kilowatts you produce will be put to good use instead of feeding somebody else's wallet.

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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: hollowone to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 2023 06:11 am

We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to recharge them or to just power the house.

What's the economic gain you have from this setup?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

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The real gain is I don't get to worry if a thunderstorm crashes the village's power supply, or if floods crash the power supply, of ir the power supplier messes up and crashes the power supply. Which happens often enough.

I estimate my setup will recoup the investment in 10 years, asuming the price of electric power does not go up - which I am sure it will.

As I mentioned earlier, it is not a great investment plan because you may as well invest in Spanish firms (if you have what it takes) and get your investment back in less time.

Mind you, we didn't get the generator for this setup. We got it much earlier because power supply here sucks and we needed a fallback. When we added solar it was easy for me to include a generator we already had in the setup. We no longer use it much since solar copes with most of our load. I run it 30 minutes per month in order to prevent it from getting stuck due to inactivity.

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On 16 Jul 2023 at 07:53a, Zip pondered and said...

Thanks! Hot and humid here (although not nearly as bad here as in the
more central parts of Europe), and vegetation could use some rain for sure...

I'm seeing a bunch of reports in our nightly news as to how bad things are at the moment there :(

I hope things settle for everyone soon.

Sounds cozy! :)

It is!

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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On 16 Jul 2023 at 03:43p, Adept pondered and said...

Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at, in Southern California.

That's super hot for me, we may reach mid 30s perhaps a handful of days over our summer but it's more in the mid 20s when summer is rolling here.

And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my
rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

Good stuff. Staying in an air con bubble would be my go to move I think.

But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

Ugh yeah that's awful.

Though I will be glad to get back to Germany, for green plants and hopefully better air quality, where it's slightly more pleasant to take
a walk outside.

It's a wet and overcast day here today with a high of 9c

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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On 16 Jul 2023 at 09:39a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

I'm on the California coast, and we're on a sliver of land with a
reprieve from the heat. Friends of ours came from the San Francisco bay area yesterday to escape the heat at our house - it was 40C at their
house and a comfortable 24c here with a nice ocean breeze.

I'm also by the ocean and we get polar air coming up from the south as the next stop is Antarctica :)

People who surf in our ocean wear wet suits year round!

I'm glad your friends could find some respite!

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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On 18 Jul 2023 at 08:24a, Nightfox pondered and said...

I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record -
It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We
do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get
quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

based on news coverage I'd say you/the world is breaking records right now :(

I think the thing that would do me is is any humidity.

On trips to places like Singapore I've struggled.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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I think the thing that would do me is is any humidity.

On trips to places like Singapore I've struggled.

Humidity is definitely what gets me.

I had a past role that wanted me to spend a lot of time in Singapore. Knowing that they still wore suits over there (the Sydney office was mostly jeans+polo/t-shirts) I laughed and told them no.

At least Singapore has A/C everywhere. From my limited time in Europe it doesn't seem to be there norm there.
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What's the economic gain you have from this setup?

The real gain is I don't get to worry if a thunderstorm crashes the village's power supply, or if floods crash the power supply, of ir the power supplier messes up and crashes the power supply. Which happens
often enough.

So it's more about fail over rather than savings then? Is the grid around you unstable?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

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Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
By: hollowone to Arelor on Sun Jul 23 2023 12:06 pm

So it's more about fail over rather than savings then? Is the grid around yo

It is more about having backup service than savings. As I have mentioned elsewhere, you get more for your money with certain investments.

I just happen to be saving a lot of money in the process.

And yes, the power grid is so bad here I have cut off the main power since April because the power company is supplying voltages between +10% and +20% (with big spikes up and down) the nominal tension. This sort of line seems to work until one day it fries your stuff.

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