• Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.

    From Adept@21:2/108 to Avon on Mon Jan 9 10:29:24 2023
    On 07 Dec 2022 at 01:19p, Adept pondered and said...

    (I'm behind on messages, so perhaps this already got talked about)

    If it helps I am too :)

    Only a month behind, now! For me, anyway. Less than 500 messages, though.

    I feel like I'm living in the past.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sun Nov 6 07:14:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software.

    I wrote a book using Google Docs, and even when I was without internet
    access, could still access the doc and make offline changes. I haven't tried that with Microsoft365 yet.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Sun Nov 6 07:18:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty
    well and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well
    on Linux browsers.

    I'm not sure I agree about the M365 vs GSuite - I have been on GSuite since January and previously on Microsoft products and I far and away prefer GSuite for collaboration. But I guess it's subjective. *shrug*

    You bring up a good point. Collaboration is much more complicated (to me) under 365 than in G Suite. The office apps in Microsoft 365, both the web
    apps and desktop apps feel much more functional than their G suite counterparts.

    That being said, I much prefer G suite at home for the simplicity. I can
    enter sheets.new in a browser and make a basic spreadsheet, for example. My home app needs are much simpler than at work.

    My killer app is still Outlook, though - with a full-fledged mobile client like Nine, I can use my notes field for data capture and fully populate the tasks and calendar, and do most of my organization in one app. If G suite
    gave tasks a solid app, it'd be a contender for me.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 08:14:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    Fortunately, Google made the right decision to continue to allow the
    early adopters with custom domains on the legacy free tier. It is suprising to me that Microsoft pricing is lower than Google in that
    space.


    I had an early legacy free tier account, and back around 2010 they offered a free trial of the paid features - and sneakily, no way to go back to the
    free tier.

    Before that decision was made, I was ready to ditch Google and host my
    own email again. I had everything ready to go - as there is no way I
    will pay business rates for personal/family access. For some unknown reason, Google doesn't offer a family plan at all for G Suite. Very
    odd and in my opinion, they could get more revenue if they did offer a family tier like Microsoft.

    Yeah, with a home use license from your company (which most likely uses Microsoft 365), 5 licenses for the full Outlook experience, plus all of the usual web and desktop apps and 1TB of OneDrive space per user is $69/year, which is hard to beat. I've been trying to move off of Google One, but it's hard to do. Habits are hard to break.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 08:15:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

    Using eCS to manage a modern virtual environment - that rocks!

    eCS and Arca OS both run fine on ESXi 6.7. I have never found an operating system that doesn't run in a virtual environment.

    I tried in Proxmox and could install eCS but not boot. I should try again,
    as I was probably one of the earliest adopters of OS/2 around here. I used OS/2 1.2 before it had a GUI!


    ... DESQview/386 - the only way to multitask!
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Warpslide on Sun Nov 6 08:27:00 2022
    Warpslide wrote to Nightfox <=-

    We recently explored various Microsoft cloud offerings, one of them
    being something called "Universal Print". This moves your print server
    to the cloud and also lets you set permissions for your various
    locations as to who can print where, all kind of neat.

    Until you realize that if you loose internet access, you can't print.
    You could be sitting right next to a printer, on the same network, but
    if your location loses internet access, no printing for you.

    My mom used Google Cloud Print until they deprecated it, and she commented
    on how long it took some time to print. I explained that the print job went from her kitchen, to Mountain View, then to her den. :)

    Cloud print sounds interesting, when you figure that companies usually have business class service, redundant circuits, and maybe even 4G backup. I'd guess that Universal print also gives you the ability to track and account
    for print jobs, which is big business at companies like law firms that bill time and materials to clients.

    As an aside, I spent last week moving my company out of their old office, as we're going remote. A cloud data/applications security company is subleasing our office space. All of the cars in the parking lot when I went in one last time were Teslas, Mercedes, and electric Mercedes. I'm in the wrong field!

    Cloud security wrapped around big providers is big business.




    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to killer on Sun Nov 6 08:28:00 2022
    killer wrote to Warpslide <=-

    Surprising what actually gets implemented. Feel like at times it is security through obscurity. Once IBM gets their hands in a cookie jar they have a tendency to keep a tight grip on things.

    There are a lot of non-supported OSes running in embedded and offline environments. A lot of small voicemail systems are running on OS/2 or
    Windows NT. As long as they never touch the internet, they *just* *work*.


    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to killer on Sun Nov 6 08:31:00 2022
    killer wrote to Atreyu <=-

    Makes spying on your competitors so much easier when their data is all stored in the cloud and they don't notice the extra resource
    consumption as your are indexing their data.

    Cloud phishing is becoming more and more pervasive - once you get in,
    lateral movement can reveal a lot.

    Get good at cloud security and you'll be well-employed.


    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 08:56:36 2022
    Google started in the cloud. Microsoft is dragging everyone, kicking and screaming to the cloud. It is all about the control and recurring revenue. The
    old model of buy hardware or an OS and keep that running for 15+ years is not
    acceptable to companies these days.
    I don't mind the cloud, as long as I can choose who my masters are. I am
    using Proton as my provider right now.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 15:04:47 2022

    My killer app is still Outlook, though - with a full-fledged mobile
    client like Nine, I can use my notes field for data capture and fully populate the tasks and calendar, and do most of my organization in one
    app. If G suite gave tasks a solid app, it'd be a contender for me.

    Sometimes it can be what a person is more accustomed to using. I always thought Groupwise calendar was much better than Outlook, but I also way more used to using Groupwise years ago.

    I am a big fan of Gmail, which is why I was very torn on what was happening at Google concerning them not having a family tier option and wanting the charge business rates to hobbiests and family users. I'm glad they decided to leave things alone. I was never against paying a reasonable amount for a family tier, but that option doesn't exist. The main reason myself and many use the legacy tier is for the custom domain name option.

    As a general rule, the cloud scares me when you have a very few having such control of communications on the Internet. This is why I'm also a huge supporter of all things Web3 - decentralized Internet.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 15:08:07 2022

    I had an early legacy free tier account, and back around 2010 they
    offered a free trial of the paid features - and sneakily, no way to go
    back to the free tier.

    I think there was a way to go back to the free tier for those that changed to playing plan and then they backed off the removal of the free tier.

    I never changed anything because I was ready to ditch them completely. I had exported everything from Google. I still have the Exchange Server VM configured and ready at home if the need arises again.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 15:09:07 2022

    I tried in Proxmox and could install eCS but not boot. I should try
    again, as I was probably one of the earliest adopters of OS/2 around
    here. I used OS/2 1.2 before it had a GUI!

    Ensure you use JFS as the file system. Not sure that HPFS will boot properly in any virtual environment.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Matthew Munson on Sun Nov 6 15:18:13 2022

    I don't mind the cloud, as long as I can choose who my masters are. I am using Proton as my provider right now.

    I don't mind the cloud either, as long as I'm the cloud. In a round about way, I am my own cloud. I also run a web3 node for dapps in the Flux network. Anything to move us towards a decentralized Internet is a positive for me.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110.1 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 15:49:44 2022
    *** Quoting Weatherman from a message to Poindexter Fortran ***

    Sometimes it can be what a person is more accustomed to using. I
    always thought Groupwise calendar was much better than Outlook, but I
    also way more used to using Groupwise years ago.

    Groupwise! There's a name I haven't thought about in awhile. I worked at a place that was still running Groupwise when I started there in 2009. I dragged them away from that to Exchange (and later Office 365).

    When we went to Exchange/Outlook the most common question I got was "how do I know if they've read my email" as with Groupwise you could check to see if
    the message had both been delivered & then read if you were sending to
    someone internal. I showed them how to ask for read receipts in Outlook but they complained "it's not the same!".


    Jay

    ... Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance

    --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
    * Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 6 15:50:37 2022
    I wrote a book using Google Docs, and even when I was without internet access, could still access the doc and make offline changes. I haven't tried that with Microsoft365 yet.

    You can't tease a book like that without sharing a link ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Warpslide on Sun Nov 6 21:15:23 2022

    Groupwise! There's a name I haven't thought about in awhile. I worked at a place that was still running Groupwise when I started there in 2009. I dragged them away from that to Exchange (and later Office 365).

    When we went to Exchange/Outlook the most common question I got was "how
    do I
    know if they've read my email" as with Groupwise you could check to see if the message had both been delivered & then read if you were sending to someone internal. I showed them how to ask for read receipts in Outlook
    but they complained "it's not the same!".

    Probably because I used Groupwise for many years, I would agree that read receipt isn't the same as how Groupwise handled message status. You didn't have to do anything special and it just worked. I also think the calendar was more advanced than Exchange for many years.

    I remember when it was called Word Perfect Office. The very first large enterprise that I worked was using DOS menu and Word Perfect Office - which included the email platform that was eventually purchased by Novell and renamed to Groupwise. The main directory when you install it was still WPDOMAIN - for Word Perfect.

    There might be some customers still using it. I will say I have seen very large Groupwise installs years ago. That was one of the most used email systems around here back then.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 21:24:41 2022
    On 05 Nov 22 07:34:00, Poindexter Fortran said the following to Atreyu:

    My spin on it was that OS/2 multitasked DOS apps amazingly well (being able to run DOS windows with Novell drivers while still having lots of memory, running lots of DOS windows, and so on...) but as soon as hardware continued to improve, that became moot.

    Agreed... thats what happened here. I got a little tired of working for my OS instead of the other way around. Having to buy OS/2-friendly hardware at the time. Everyone else I knew was enjoying their Windows computers.

    I remember very well being at a friends apartment in 2001 and being shown Windows 2000 with everything it could do. RDP, Tape backup, networking that worked properly... sealed the deal for me. OS/2 was gone the next day.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 21:31:06 2022
    On 06 Nov 22 09:20:30, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    Our organization used the Blackberry for many years before standardizing on the iPhone (gasp). I am the ONLY rebel in the 20k+ organization that has a company paid android. Not only do I deviate on the mobile phone, but on the mobile carrier. Everyone with company phones use Verizon and I use Sprint/T-Mobile.

    I like my Iphone SE, 1st gen as I have no compelling reason to upgrade.

    Probably because I've grown very accustomed to its UI and the Mail app.
    Apple got it right... at least for me.

    Novell was awesome back in the day. I was a CNE and used to administer larg Novell networks back in the 3.12 days and even 4.10 days. I performed many large 3.12->4.10 migrations to Novell NDS back in the day. NDS was better b

    Wow thats impressive! I never caught on to Novell. I actually didn't really get into serious networking stuff until Windows NT4 / 2000.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 21:36:39 2022
    On 06 Nov 22 09:31:35, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    Yes, but unfortunately Microsoft has been creating far too many "Wizards" th now make things more complicated on the more recent operating systems than t previous versions. It takes more clicks to just edit your IP address on Windows these days. They need a global "disable all wizards" toggle!

    What absolutely kills me... makes me laugh... actually laugh from the belly... are Powershell fanatics. These are seriously people from another planet.

    I've worked with PS, written some scripts with it and mannnnnn... the syntax for the most basic of operation I found to be Rube Goldberg convoluted in design and execution.

    They've completely missed the joke... that you're spending countless hours on a command prompt of a "Windows" OS. Just like Windows Server installs without the GUI. It completely goes against the whole point of a GUI, the whole name.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 6 21:38:12 2022
    On 06 Nov 22 09:36:55, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    I will find a way to run everything on Linux if all the future modern OS are tied to the cloud. More than half the population only really need a browser so the Chrome OS is good enough for them.

    Same here, I'll be dragged kicking and screaming into installing Linux... actually I do like the BSD variants. NetBSD and FreeBSD. They just seem a
    bit more mature and meant for long-term stability.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Mon Nov 7 07:49:59 2022

    I like my Iphone SE, 1st gen as I have no compelling reason to upgrade.

    I'm using a Samsung Galaxy Note 9, which is fairly old at this point in time. I use is mainly for apps and rarely as a phone.

    Wow thats impressive! I never caught on to Novell. I actually didn't
    really get into serious networking stuff until Windows NT4 / 2000.

    I actually started my IT career with mainframes, DECs, and other mid-range systems like AS/400s and Sperry. My first IT jobs was with a major bank and they had almost 100% IBM hardware.

    My 2nd IT job I did lots of work on setting up data communications on mainframes, AS/400s, and Digital (DEC) systems. I worked on the large network of systems for a major gym/fitness club back then.

    My 3rd IT job got me more into client/server PC networking (which is where I wanted to be). Huge Netware environment, started as many 3.12 Netware servers and ended up consolidating them into NDS 4.11 HA clusters. Novell was way better at networking large enterprises vs Microsoft back then.

    I still remember starting the Active Directory domain for the organization where I am now. I ran it on an old PC in my office with just a few PCs on it. Now there are 15k+ devices connected to it and running on many domain controllers.

    Once I moved more into data networking, that was lots of fun too. Designing large scale networks is loads of fun with all the various connectivity and redundancy. One of the coolest things done in the past 3 years is adding a technology called OTV (overlay transport virtualization). Fancy term for a VPN on steroids. It allows you to run the same VLANs/networks at the same time in two data centers on routed network links. You can even route the same networks on both sides at the same time. Perfect for HA in VMware.
    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Mon Nov 7 08:10:08 2022

    What absolutely kills me... makes me laugh... actually laugh from the belly... are Powershell fanatics. These are seriously people from another planet.
    I've worked with PS, written some scripts with it and mannnnnn... the
    syntax for the most basic of operation I found to be Rube Goldberg convoluted in design and execution.

    They've completely missed the joke... that you're spending countless hours on
    a command prompt of a "Windows" OS. Just like Windows Server installs without
    the GUI. It completely goes against the whole point of a GUI, the whole name.

    I agree that powershell has a convoluted syntax that makes some of the 200 character command line options in Linux look basic. The execution of powershell is a mess.

    I understand why Microsoft created this - all in the name of "automation and scripting". Why not use APIs, or any other straight forward method towards automation.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Mon Nov 7 08:13:42 2022

    Same here, I'll be dragged kicking and screaming into installing Linux... actually I do like the BSD variants. NetBSD and FreeBSD. They just seem a bit more mature and meant for long-term stability.

    I was probably one of the only people on earth running Home Assistant completely on a Windows 10 VM at one point in time. It was not an easy process getting it all working there since I was very non-standard, but it worked (at least for a while).

    A few years ago I threw in the towel and moved to the Home Assistant OS (which is basically a custom Linux built just for this use case). Things work way easier for me now and I am happy I switched. Not because I like one OS over the OS, but more because some apps are written for certain platforms. I use what makes the most sense for the particular app.

    That is how I ended up running so many different operating systems in my ESXi environment.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to Nightfox on Mon Nov 7 07:47:45 2022
    On 05 Nov 2022, Nightfox said the following...
    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software. Otherwise,
    if software is all web-based (or otherwise runs from an internet
    server), we wouldn't need much more than dumb terminals at home (whereas typically it's a good thing to have your own storage and processing
    power at home).. In some ways, it seems like computing is coming full-circle.

    Nightfox

    I completely agree. Keep the power at home. If you want a web app then host it locally and access it across the internet. Nextcloud offers all the goodies Google has and you can do it on a PI if you don't have a server sitting around.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 7 08:44:52 2022
    On 07 Nov 22 08:10:08, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    I agree that powershell has a convoluted syntax that makes some of the 200 character command line options in Linux look basic. The execution of powershell is a mess.

    I understand why Microsoft created this - all in the name of "automation and scripting". Why not use APIs, or any other straight forward method towards automation.

    The one scripting language I actually didn't mind, was Rexx on OS/2.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 7 17:19:00 2022
    Am 06.11.22 schrieb Weatherman@21:1/132.0 in FSX_GEN:

    Hallo Weatherman,

    eCS and Arca OS both run fine on ESXi 6.7. I have never found an operating system that doesn't run in a virtual environment.

    AFAIK OS/2 v1.3 won't run that easily in a virtual environment,
    because it was 'optimized' for a 286 processor.

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.56
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to boraxman on Mon Nov 7 09:41:49 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: boraxman to Nightfox on Sun Nov 06 2022 09:55 pm

    It's weird, the whole point of the "Personal Computer" was that we would get to own our computers, and run our own local software without having to worry about timeshare, or using someone elses system. It seems as if they are wanting to undo the whole "Personal Computer" thing and move us back to using other peoples machines which they control.

    I've had basically the same thought. It's a weird situation.

    Software developers truly suck, for creating this terrible situation. Our

    I imagine it has more to do with them doing what their employer wants, rather than choosing themselves that this was a good idea. I'm a software developer professionally, and it wouldn't be my first choice.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 7 09:42:56 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Nov 06 2022 07:14 am

    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that
    if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run
    those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software.

    I wrote a book using Google Docs, and even when I was without internet access, could still access the doc and make offline changes. I haven't tried that with Microsoft365 yet.

    That's encouraging.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 8 22:59:13 2022
    On 07 Nov 2022 at 09:41a, Nightfox pondered and said...

    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: boraxman to Nightfox on Sun Nov 06 2022 09:55 pm

    It's weird, the whole point of the "Personal Computer" was that we wo get to own our computers, and run our own local software without havi worry about timeshare, or using someone elses system. It seems as if are wanting to undo the whole "Personal Computer" thing and move us b to using other peoples machines which they control.

    I've had basically the same thought. It's a weird situation.

    Software developers truly suck, for creating this terrible situation.

    I imagine it has more to do with them doing what their employer wants, rather than choosing themselves that this was a good idea. I'm a
    software developer professionally, and it wouldn't be my first choice.

    Nightfox

    Understandable, but nevertheless, here we are. Perhaps I should say instead "software industry", to exonerate those devs who know they aren't building the best solution.

    ... There is an exception to every rule, except this one.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Mon Nov 7 06:25:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I wrote a book using Google Docs, and even when I was without internet access, could still access the doc and make offline changes. I haven't tried that with Microsoft365 yet.

    You can't tease a book like that without sharing a link ;)

    It was a post-apocalyptic novel I wrote during NANOWRIMO a few years ago.
    I've been meaning to clean it up and publish it on Amazon for a while...


    ... Look closely at the most embarrassing details and amplify them
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Warpslide on Mon Nov 7 06:29:00 2022
    Warpslide wrote to Weatherman <=-

    Groupwise! There's a name I haven't thought about in awhile. I worked
    at a place that was still running Groupwise when I started there in
    2009. I dragged them away from that to Exchange (and later Office
    365).

    I'm dating myself - I worked at a mac/windows shop in the early '90s, and my boss had a plan to replace a mac-based email system called QuickMail with WordPerfect Office, an earlier version of Groupwise. It took so long to try and customize it for what we were going to use that people got tired of waiting, and we set up a BSD box with Qpopper and bought copies of Eudora
    Pro for the office. Turns out that we didn't need groupware, just email -
    and Eudora/POP3 worked great.

    I have the Eudora sound on my phone for new mail, still. :)


    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Atreyu on Mon Nov 7 06:33:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Weatherman <=-

    Wow thats impressive! I never caught on to Novell. I actually didn't really get into serious networking stuff until Windows NT4 / 2000.

    I ran Novell networks in the 90s, and went to their corporate office in San Jose for user group meetings. I was in awe of their campus, grassy walkways, ponds, volleyball courts, employee center with dry cleaning, day care, a cafeteria with high chairs so you could have breakfast/lunch with your kids, and the scale of it all.

    Many years later, I worked at that same campus. Novell was long gone by that point, and I'd had a sneaking suspicion that I'd been there before. It
    didn't occur to me until later it was the same space.


    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 7 06:36:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-

    past 3 years is adding a technology called OTV (overlay transport virtualization). Fancy term for a VPN on steroids. It allows you to
    run the same VLANs/networks at the same time in two data centers on
    routed network links. You can even route the same networks on both
    sides at the same time. Perfect for HA in VMware.

    Sounds like something we're doing at work with our SD-WAN and firewalls. We were able to extend a subnet from one office to another during a server migration. Pretty wild stuff, the last time I did networking as part of my
    job networks were physically isolated.


    ... Listen in total darkness, very quietly
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 8 10:55:59 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Warpslide on Mon Nov 07 2022 06:29 am

    I'm dating myself - I worked at a mac/windows shop in the early '90s, and my boss had a plan to replace a mac-based email system called QuickMail with WordPerfect Office, an earlier version of Groupwise. It took so long to try and customize it for what we were going to use that people got tired of waiting, and we set up a BSD box with Qpopper and bought copies of Eudora Pro for the office. Turns out that we didn't need groupware, just email - and Eudora/POP3 worked great.

    I have the Eudora sound on my phone for new mail, still. :)

    :) I remember that sound. When I started using the internet in 1995, I installed the free Eudora email client, which seemed decent. I used that for quite a while, but then I remember Eudora starting to nag to buy the full version. I then switched to Mozilla Thunderbird (which was able to import my Eudora email), and I didn't look back.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 8 13:05:19 2022
    It was a post-apocalyptic novel I wrote during NANOWRIMO a few years
    ago. I've been meaning to clean it up and publish it on Amazon for a while...

    Impressive you got this done! I've always wanted to do NANOWRIMO but November is such a busy month, work-wise, it's always a crunch to get things done by the end of the year. How did you find the experience writing?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Claw on Tue Nov 8 17:14:29 2022

    I completely agree. Keep the power at home. If you want a web app then
    host it locally and access it across the internet. Nextcloud offers all
    the goodies Google has and you can do it on a PI if you don't have a
    server sitting around.

    +1 Nextcloud. That is another thing I setup here on my own personal cloud which runs in my basement.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Tue Nov 8 17:17:25 2022

    The one scripting language I actually didn't mind, was Rexx on OS/2.


    I never did much with Rexx. I have done some basic Python stuff while working with Home Assistant over the years. Nothing super complicated, since I never have considered myself anything close to a coder. A modder yes, coder not so much.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Acn on Tue Nov 8 17:18:14 2022

    AFAIK OS/2 v1.3 won't run that easily in a virtual environment,
    because it was 'optimized' for a 286 processor.

    I never tried it. I should see if I can get a DOS 5.0 VM fired up just for the hell of it.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Tue Nov 8 17:36:33 2022

    Sounds like something we're doing at work with our SD-WAN and firewalls.
    We were able to extend a subnet from one office to another during a
    server migration. Pretty wild stuff, the last time I did networking as
    part of my job networks were physically isolated.

    Virtualization was a game changer, as is flash storage to SANs. We went from having explosive growth of pizza box severs taking up loads of space and power, to a few racks of high end blades that are fiber channel attached to flash storage arrays.

    The entire data center can run in a few racks. You can have petabytes of storage in a single rack. No more city blocks of old mainframe DASD. My cell phone has more storage than many mainframe systems did back in the late 80s.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Bex@21:1/137 to Matthew Munson on Thu Nov 10 09:56:00 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to All <=-

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it to
    a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for this)
    and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at the same time.

    I would advise you to stop for a sec and ask yourself *why* you are
    thinking of upgrading your hardware. If the only reason is to run Windows
    11, I'd advise you to stick with your hardware and run a different OS. It should be easy-peasy to find a copy of Windows 10. Since that used to work,
    why not save yourself the money and just run Windows 10?

    Of course, there are a couple of us (Gamgee, me) whose automatic advice
    would be to run Linux on it, but I get the feeling you don't want to make
    that big a change. So the next logical question is, why change your working system?


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... Trillian: My whole planet destroyed because you thought someone wanted your
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Bex@21:1/137 to Exodus on Thu Nov 10 09:59:00 2022
    Exodus wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on moving forward. Cost = 0.

    I love the version of Ubuntu that has ADS in the terminal window ....
    that was classy for whoever did that.

    I don't remember that at all, but I am not big on Ubuntu in general. Still, what was your point?


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... Mushu: Stand watch, Mushu, while I blow our secret with my stupid girly habi
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Bex@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Thu Nov 10 10:01:00 2022
    Gamgee wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Just a weak attempt at humor. I'm anti-Windows and sometimes can't
    resist poking at it... ;-)

    SAME!!! But everyone already knew that. (:


    -+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

    ... "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Bex on Fri Nov 11 15:34:04 2022
    I don't remember that at all, but I am not big on Ubuntu in general. Still, what was your point?

    Yeah - don't think there have ever been ads in the terminal window.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to boraxman on Sun Nov 13 12:10:29 2022
    It's weird, the whole point of the "Personal Computer" was that we would get to own our computers, and run our own local software without having
    to worry about timeshare, or using someone elses system. It seems as if they are wanting to undo the whole "Personal Computer" thing and move us back to using other peoples machines which they control.

    Everything is cyclical. Computing and related technologies are no different. There will be another evolution and we will swing back the other way honestly. Just the simple fact that Internet access is not always around will force people to move away from the cloud eventually.

    Killer

    ... Makethe taglines go awaaaaaaay

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 13 12:13:43 2022
    just keeps growing as everything connects to the network these days. It won't be long until my toilet will be able to count flushes per day and will be on my home LAN.

    What?! Five extra flushes today! That will be 5 DOGE penalty per flush!

    ... If evolution were a fact then cats would use can openers.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 13 12:16:57 2022
    I remember hearing that before. Do you know if the ATMs are still using OS/2 or was that just back in the day?

    I think a large number are still using it. The multimedia ones are the ones most likely using embedded Windows, but if they are still old school text interface most likely OS/2 still.

    ... He's two disks short of a full backup

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 13 12:18:32 2022
    You bring up a good point. Collaboration is much more complicated (to
    me) under 365 than in G Suite. The office apps in Microsoft 365, both
    the web apps and desktop apps feel much more functional than their G suite counterparts.

    Well Sharepain the tool used for collaboration there, which is decidedly painful to use and most people can't get it setup properly.

    ... Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Killer on Sun Nov 13 18:52:11 2022

    What?! Five extra flushes today! That will be 5 DOGE penalty per flush!


    I'm sure there could be an excessive use tax added for the "over 5 flushes per day" homes. Really bad if you have the stomach flu. Or if you happen to drink lots of beer, like me.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Killer on Sun Nov 13 18:55:46 2022

    I think a large number are still using it. The multimedia ones are the
    ones most likely using embedded Windows, but if they are still old school text interface most likely OS/2 still.

    I rarely use ATMs, but most of the ones around here that I have seen these days are the video/multimedia ones.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to killer on Mon Nov 14 06:50:00 2022
    killer wrote to boraxman <=-

    different. There will be another evolution and we will swing back the other way honestly. Just the simple fact that Internet access is not always around will force people to move away from the cloud eventually.

    Depends on where you are. I'm interested in seeing ultralight laptops with built-in 4G/5G networking; in a metropolitan area that would be pretty
    great.


    ... Do the words need changing?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to acn on Thu Nov 17 16:55:14 2022
    On 11/2/22 02:00, acn wrote:
    You know... I don't ever remember the Linux crowd ever going after
    OS/2. There was this odd level of calm, a mutual respect between
    the two.

    Maybe because some of the Linux people once used OS/2...
    That's at least my story.

    Used to work OS/2 support for iomega... of course I remember very
    little, about the only thing I really didn't like about OS/2 was that everything you wanted to do outside run windows compat software was
    costly and that the configuration file(s) were beyond massive.

    I switched back and forth a lot in the late 90's, with Windows 2000 (not
    ME), I pretty much didn't look back... I'm running Linux for my personal desktop now, an M1 air for my personal laptop, and work laptop is
    Windows 10, but working mostly in WSL(2) + Docker + VS Code.

    Honestly there's aspects I like(d) about almost every OS I've ever used.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to boraxman on Thu Nov 17 16:58:08 2022
    On 11/2/22 03:10, boraxman wrote:
    I am likely just going to buy a 5600G processor to replace the 1700x.

    Ha, and here I am running an AMD Phenom II. That CPU you're getting
    rid of would run rings around my *main* rig. Kids these days with
    their newfangled processor doohickeys!

    I'm kind of the opposite end... I did hold on to my i7 4790K for about 5 years... currently running an r9 5950X, RTX 3080 (10gb), 128gb ram, 2tb samsung 980 pro (linux drive), and hoping to see an r9 7950X3D in the
    spring, and will upgrade to that in march/april assuming it exists.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Thu Dec 1 21:13:01 2022
    Main reason I'm turned off games. Spending $000's to play the same type of games I've already played.

    I got a switch for the kids instead. That will suffice.

    I picked up a 3DS recently, and then won a fairly-inexpensive auction for a bunch of games for the system.

    On the one hand, they're shutting off the ability to purchase anything more on the 3DS as of March 2023 or so, but on the other, at the end of life for a system is one of the nice times to buy.

    But hard to find other people who actively play it.

    But I suppose that's different from computer gaming. I mostly haven't bothered there, but spent lots on a computer because I wanted to be able to run demoscene productions (and hopefully eventually make some), and, well, that requires something that can play the latest games.

    So I guess I still have the expensive habit, if for a different reason.

    But I do think your approach is a very good one -- you should be able to enjoy the games just as much, but at a small fraction of the cost. Definitely a good idea.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 14:25:05 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Adept to boraxman on Thu Dec 01 2022 09:13 pm

    But I suppose that's different from computer gaming. I mostly haven't bothered there, but spent lots on a computer because I wanted to be able to run demoscene productions (and hopefully eventually make some), and, well, that requires something that can play the latest games.

    Over the years, PCs have been where I've played the most games. I've had consoles (and currently still have a Nintendo Wii that I bought years ago), but it always seemed to be a little easier and less expensive to get PC games if you wanted to. Shareware games have existed for a long time, and although limited, you can at least play a little bit of the game for free before you decide to buy the full version. And there's always freeware games too. There were never any freeware games for consoles in the 80s and 90s; I'm not sure about newer consoles where you can download games online.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Thu Dec 1 14:38:00 2022
    On the one hand, they're shutting off the ability to purchase anything more on the 3DS as of March 2023 or so, but on the other, at the end of life for a system is one of the nice times to buy.

    The original XBox is one of my all time favorite consoles, and enthusiasts have resurrected the xboxlive store (or whatever it is) in a community supported way. It's super cool and my description here is pretty reductive to the reality but perhaps there will be some community effort for the 3DS at some point. I agree the 3DS is an amazing gaming platform, and there are /so/ many classic games for it which are all just phenomenal.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Fri Dec 2 23:54:41 2022
    Main reason I'm turned off games. Spending $000's to play the same t of games I've already played.

    I got a switch for the kids instead. That will suffice.

    I picked up a 3DS recently, and then won a fairly-inexpensive auction
    for a bunch of games for the system.

    On the one hand, they're shutting off the ability to purchase anything more on the 3DS as of March 2023 or so, but on the other, at the end of life for a system is one of the nice times to buy.

    But hard to find other people who actively play it.

    But I suppose that's different from computer gaming. I mostly haven't bothered there, but spent lots on a computer because I wanted to be able to run demoscene productions (and hopefully eventually make some), and, well, that requires something that can play the latest games.

    So I guess I still have the expensive habit, if for a different reason.

    But I do think your approach is a very good one -- you should be able to enjoy the games just as much, but at a small fraction of the cost. Definitely a good idea.


    I'm the only one who really is "into gaming", and even then, it is not that much. Part of the reason I stopped (apart from getting older, having a family, etc), is that I don't really want to use Windows as I consider Microsoft pretty evil. Linux runs most of what I'm interested in, Wine/Proton fills the gaps.

    The reality is that games would be the ONLY reason I'd need to update my computer, so if I'm happy to play on the Switch, then my PC has years more life to it.

    However, the Demoscene is something else and to be honest, its something I've wanted to get back into, though I've never made demos, only enjoyed watching them.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Adept on Fri Dec 2 21:50:53 2022
    BY: Adept(21:2/108)


    |11A|09> |10On the one hand, they're shutting off the ability to purchase anything|07
    |11A|09> |10more on the 3DS as of March 2023 or so, but on the other, at the end of|07
    |11A|09> |10life for a system is one of the nice times to buy.|07
    Im thinking about buying 100 bucks of 3ds games before the shut down. I might write a buyers guide.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3614
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 5 09:28:28 2022
    The original XBox is one of my all time favorite consoles, and
    enthusiasts have resurrected the xboxlive store (or whatever it is) in a community supported way. It's super cool and my description here is
    pretty reductive to the reality but perhaps there will be some community effort for the 3DS at some point. I agree the 3DS is an amazing gaming platform, and there are /so/ many classic games for it which are all
    just phenomenal.

    I hope you're right, though I also wonder how much Nintendo would allow such things to happen.

    Which is kind of a backward way of saying that I think that Microsoft probably deserves some credit for how they've handled gaming things.

    Though maybe the XBox stuff was accidental -- you'd know better than me.

    But nice to know there are lots of phenomenal 3DS games.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Mon Dec 5 09:54:44 2022
    I'm the only one who really is "into gaming", and even then, it is not that much. Part of the reason I stopped (apart from getting older,
    having a family, etc), is that I don't really want to use Windows as I consider Microsoft pretty evil. Linux runs most of what I'm interested in, Wine/Proton fills the gaps.

    Yeah, there are multiple ways of doing gaming, and many ways to do it on a budget. And even to do it the expensive ways, and not destroy your budget, if you're lucky enough to have a bit of spare income.

    And nice that Linux works for you. I've run Linux from time to time, and obviously use it on servers, but am way more fine with Windows and Microsoft than I was in the past.

    But that's probably because I'm way more bothered by what the other tech giants have been up to. And Windows just seems like less of an oppressive monopoly than it once was.

    But it's still neat when people manage to make Linux work for them, whatever the situation is.

    However, the Demoscene is something else and to be honest, its something I've wanted to get back into, though I've never made demos, only enjoyed watching them.

    Yeah, and you probably need more of a computer for that than creating a demo, depending on what route you go.

    E.g., a lot of people code for older systems, or make something using Pico-8. Which, while it's not old, certainly feels like it could be.

    But I've wanted to play around with newer things. And, well, be able to use Unreal Engine, even if I wouldn't necessarily only use it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Utopian Galt on Mon Dec 5 09:55:25 2022
    Im thinking about buying 100 bucks of 3ds games before the shut down. I might write a buyers guide.

    Nice! Would be neat if you did, and be sure to share it here (or a link to it) when/if you do.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Mon Dec 5 03:15:27 2022
    I hope you're right, though I also wonder how much Nintendo would allow such things to happen.

    You raise an interesting point! They've always been pretty active shutting down random third party versions of their IP. Shame, really.

    But nice to know there are lots of phenomenal 3DS games.

    Prior to the 3DS, when they had the DS and DS Lite, I was on deployment. The great thing about the DS/DS-Lite was that multiple people with a console could wirelessly tether to one another, and oftentimes only one person needed to have a cart for everyone else to play live. We used to play Mario Kart all the time...it was an awesome way to pass the time, for sure.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 5 17:34:42 2022
    The great thing about the DS/DS-Lite was that multiple people with a console could wirelessly tether to one another, and oftentimes only one person needed to have a cart for everyone else to play live. We used to play Mario Kart all the time...it was an awesome way to pass the time,
    for sure.

    That _does_ seem pretty neat, and _signifcantly_ easier to setup than getting a console and a TV.

    And I imagine you could even make the claim that it was an essential part of bonding with your unit, too. :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Tue Dec 6 23:36:23 2022
    E.g., a lot of people code for older systems, or make something using Pico-8. Which, while it's not old, certainly feels like it could be.

    But I've wanted to play around with newer things. And, well, be able to use Unreal Engine, even if I wouldn't necessarily only use it.


    I do prefer the older hardware. IT seems more interesting, because its not as opaque. The new iPhone doesn't interest me because its so hard to get to the underlying hardware. The original IBM PC? Now that is interesting because I can control every aspect of that machine.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Tue Dec 6 15:04:14 2022
    I do prefer the older hardware. IT seems more interesting, because its not as opaque. The new iPhone doesn't interest me because its so hard
    to get to the underlying hardware. The original IBM PC? Now that is interesting because I can control every aspect of that machine.

    Yeah, and some people are working on _very_ impressive things on those older systems. E.g., the 286 demo that Trixter put out at Evoke.

    My inclinations tend to lie elsewhere, either with ANSI, or just with doing enough coding to make something interesting, artistically. And using old systems just means that I'd have to spend more time exploring the hardware than thinking about the artistic aspects.

    Though I do still have a bit of fascination with embedded systems, but not enough to have coded much of interest with it.

    Still, most likely the next bigger Demoscene project I'll end up doing will involve ANSI-style graphics, but in systems where it's absolutely unnecessary to use ANSI-style graphics.

    But I'd really just be going toward my strengths. I don't work in the game industry, so there are plenty of coders in the scene who will just always be significantly better than me, due to the amount of experience they have.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Tue Dec 6 06:49:00 2022
    boraxman wrote to Adept <=-

    The original IBM PC? Now that is
    interesting because I can control every aspect of that machine.

    True. I started with a Commodore 64, but it wasn't until I got a PC-XT clone that things really got interesting. There were virtually *no* ports on the motherboard, everything was done with add-on cards. So, you could incrementally upgrade it easily. I started with replacing the 8088 CPU with
    a V20, getting a math co-processor for my CS classwork, upgrading the hard drive and controller to RLL to get more space, then replacing the
    motherboard with an AT/287, inheriting a card that added memory to the
    system along with more I/O... by the time I was done the only things left original were the power supply and the case.


    ... All of my certifications are self-signed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Dec 7 22:32:54 2022
    The original IBM PC? Now that is
    interesting because I can control every aspect of that machine.

    True. I started with a Commodore 64, but it wasn't until I got a PC-XT clone that things really got interesting. There were virtually *no*
    ports on the motherboard, everything was done with add-on cards. So,
    you could incrementally upgrade it easily. I started with replacing the 8088 CPU with a V20, getting a math co-processor for my CS classwork, upgrading the hard drive and controller to RLL to get more space, then replacing the motherboard with an AT/287, inheriting a card that added memory to the system along with more I/O... by the time I was done the only things left original were the power supply and the case.


    Same. I wanted to do graphics on the Commodore 64, and program in "machine code" but books were hard to come by. It wasn't until a couple of years later, when I had a 386, and an assembler, and books, where I could really feel that FINALLY I was able to really access the hardware.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Wed Dec 7 13:19:15 2022
    I don't mind windows 11, it's much nicer than windows 10, but the hardware requirements suck.

    The one thing I absolutely hated about Win11 was the right-click flyout menu in file explorer. Burying all the useful options in submenus requiring more clicking around was pretty lame.

    (I'm behind on messages, so perhaps this already got talked about)

    What I'm struggling with, with Win11, along with what you're saying, are other minor annoyances that I don't understand.

    E.g., there's a default widget, that I would actively like -- if it didn't automatically open on hover. They introduced it that way on Win10, but then eventually included a way to make it not open on hover. Then made the same decision with Win11 to have it open on hover, but figured that defaulting it to the corner was enough.

    And another minor thing, is that there are different things that happen when you click on the speaker icon, whether it's a left or right click. So I misclick, then do the right click, and the second click comes up behind the first. So I click out of both, then do the click I wanted.

    And all of these are things that were handled differently in Win10, and I don't see any compelling reason for them to have changed it.

    And, in the case of the widget, "do not open on hover" should _always_ be an option, for anything more than a tooltip.

    But, in general, Win11 seems fine to me. I can't say I particularly _care_ about how it's different from Win10, but largely it does what I want, and I can ignore it most of the time.

    And that's the state I want for an OS. Basically stop thinking about it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Adept on Thu Dec 8 11:38:04 2022
    On 07 Dec 2022 at 01:19p, Adept pondered and said...

    (I'm behind on messages, so perhaps this already got talked about)

    If it helps I am too :)

    What I'm struggling with, with Win11, along with what you're saying, are

    I haven't used Win 11 as yet but my hunch is I may ride it out until the next OS version is released then try to move to that.. but time will tell I guess.

    But, in general, Win11 seems fine to me. I can't say I particularly
    _care_ about how it's different from Win10, but largely it does what I want, and I can ignore it most of the time.

    And that's the state I want for an OS. Basically stop thinking about it.

    sounds totally fair and reasonable :)

    Pondering chocolate is far more fun :)

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to All on Sun Oct 30 21:29:30 2022
    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it to a 3700x on my
    B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for this) and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to
    upgrade my storage at the same time.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for the gusto and get a 3060.

    Or just buy a bleepin new computer?
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Matthew Munson on Mon Oct 31 21:47:16 2022
    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it to
    a 3700x on my
    B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for this) and perhaps buy
    a 1tb ssd to
    upgrade my storage at the same time.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for the
    gusto and get a 3060.

    Or just buy a bleepin new computer?
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1

    Why buy an Operating System that cannot operate your computer? It seems a pretty dismal failure on Microsoft's part, to not be able to make relatively recent computers operate.

    This would be a good time to look into Linux.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Matthew Munson on Mon Oct 31 07:57:00 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to All <=-

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade
    it to a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my
    bios for this) and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at
    the same time.

    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on
    moving forward. Cost = 0.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards
    these days. Also, nobody can actually answer that question because we
    don't know what you intend to do with the video card. High end gaming?
    Web browsing and reading email? We can't read your mind.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Mandarax@21:1/156 to Gamgee on Mon Oct 31 10:19:53 2022
    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards

    Video Cards are easily available now, and prices have fallen extensively.


    Insomnia City BBS SysOp
    Kalamazoo, MI USA
    bbs.farcasternet.org Telnet 23, SSH 2222

    ... Origin of Life? Just check my refrigerator...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Insomnia City BBS - Kalamazoo, MI (21:1/156)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Mon Oct 31 16:20:51 2022

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards
    these days. Also, nobody can actually answer that question because we
    don't know what you intend to do with the video card. High end gaming?
    Web browsing and reading email? We can't read your mind.

    Video card prices have dropped a good bit the past month or so post etherium merge. Even though it was difficult to find cards most of this year, I was able to get several from Microcenter this past year.

    A good card for the price is the 3060ti. I have (2) of them - Asus mini versions that I paid $399 each. My PC has (5) GPUs since it does mining while I work.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Mandarax on Mon Oct 31 17:38:00 2022
    Mandarax wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards

    Video Cards are easily available now, and prices have fallen
    extensively.

    Good to hear, thanks for that info.



    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Mon Oct 31 17:40:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards
    these days. Also, nobody can actually answer that question because we
    don't know what you intend to do with the video card. High end gaming?
    Web browsing and reading email? We can't read your mind.

    Video card prices have dropped a good bit the past month or so
    post etherium merge. Even though it was difficult to find cards
    most of this year, I was able to get several from Microcenter
    this past year.

    Cool, glad to hear things have improved.

    A good card for the price is the 3060ti. I have (2) of them -
    Asus mini versions that I paid $399 each. My PC has (5) GPUs
    since it does mining while I work.

    Wow, nice. Trying to picture how that works... what bus/connector do
    they use? My outdated knowledge remembers only seeing one or two
    connectors (PCIe?) generally, for video cards.



    ... Toto, I don't think we're in DOS any more...
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Exodus@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Mon Oct 31 20:15:42 2022
    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on moving forward. Cost = 0.

    I love the version of Ubuntu that has ADS in the terminal window .... that was classy for whoever did that.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Mon Oct 31 19:04:52 2022
    On 10/31/2022 9:34 PM, Boraxman wrote to Matthew Munson:



    Why buy an Operating System that cannot operate your computer? It seems a pretty dismal failure on Microsoft's part, to not be able to make relatively recent computers operate.

    I want to play Final Fantasy 14. I think not supporting ryzen 1st gen was a crime against
    humanity (e-waste).

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Exodus on Mon Oct 31 21:22:00 2022
    Exodus wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on moving forward. Cost = 0.

    I love the version of Ubuntu that has ADS in the terminal window
    .... that was classy for whoever did that.

    Hehe, never heard of that one. Would not last long here. ;-)



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Matthew Munson on Tue Nov 1 16:11:44 2022
    Why buy an Operating System that cannot operate your computer? It seem pretty dismal failure on Microsoft's part, to not be able to make relat recent computers operate.

    I want to play Final Fantasy 14. I think not supporting ryzen 1st gen
    was a crime against
    humanity (e-waste).

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1

    Look into whether Wine or Proton supports it. Linux support for games has come a long long way. It used to be that if you wanted to play anything that didn't have a Linux port, or wasn't some old basic, non-complex Windows program, you were out of luck. But now you can get many games running under Linux.

    In terms of the e-waste, and the crime, I agree. It is a terrible crime against the planet's ecosystem to do this as it *will* result in more waste, and that waste ends up poisoning us in the near future. Both the acquisition of, and disposal/recycling (if it gets recycled at all) generates long term toxic waste.

    In the end, I decided that my responsibility to future generations, and the choices *I* choose to make, are more important than some video games. Corporations have no responsibility or conscious, despite their claims. We individuals have to act as the better people and turn our backs on them.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Mandarax@21:1/156 to boraxman on Mon Oct 31 23:23:34 2022
    Look into whether Wine or Proton supports it. Linux support for games non-complex Windows program, you were out of luck. But now you can get many games running under Linux.

    I play FF online and WoW here and there when I have the time these days. These and a number of games that really utilize a good graphics card run like poop under wine on linux. It's not worth it to me. On my gaming PC I will stick to Windows 11. The gaming and graphics performance is just a very very noticeable difference to me.

    I do use linux for many many other things. Which includes my VPS that runs my BBS, web server, mail server, etc.. etc. The only gaming I find worth it on linux is a Steam supported game. Then they tend to run fairly well on linux.


    Insomnia City BBS SysOp
    Kalamazoo, MI USA
    bbs.farcasternet.org Telnet 23, SSH 2222

    ... Great minds think alike; small minds run together

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Insomnia City BBS - Kalamazoo, MI (21:1/156)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Mandarax on Wed Nov 2 00:33:40 2022
    Look into whether Wine or Proton supports it. Linux support for game non-complex Windows program, you were out of luck. But now you can g many games running under Linux.

    I play FF online and WoW here and there when I have the time these
    days. These and a number of games that really utilize a good graphics card run like poop under wine on linux. It's not worth it to me. On my gaming PC I will stick to Windows 11. The gaming and graphics
    performance is just a very very noticeable difference to me.

    I do use linux for many many other things. Which includes my VPS that runs my BBS, web server, mail server, etc.. etc. The only gaming I find worth it on linux is a Steam supported game. Then they tend to run
    fairly well on linux.



    I used to keep an old windows installation just for games. That can be done today. Just keep Windows 10 for the games that don't run on Linux, and use Linux for everything else. If you can avoid using Windows 11 for games, you can run the latest OS and browsers and such under Linux, games, and not have to buy a whole new machine just to run Windows 11.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 1 09:10:08 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Gamgee to Matthew Munson on Mon Oct 31 2022 07:57 am

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade

    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on moving forward. Cost = 0.

    What do you mean by virus-laden? I'd think it's only really easy to get a virus if you're going to sketchy web sites and/or downloading sketchy stuff.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards these days.

    I started to see graphics card prices coming down and stock returning to stores months ago. People were starting to joke that scalpers were trying to return their graphics cards to the store because they couldn't scalp them anymore.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 1 09:13:06 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Gamgee to Weatherman on Mon Oct 31 2022 05:40 pm

    A good card for the price is the 3060ti. I have (2) of them -
    Asus mini versions that I paid $399 each. My PC has (5) GPUs
    since it does mining while I work.

    Wow, nice. Trying to picture how that works... what bus/connector do
    they use? My outdated knowledge remembers only seeing one or two connectors (PCIe?) generally, for video cards.

    They still use PCI Express, last time I checked..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to boraxman on Tue Nov 1 09:17:17 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: boraxman to Matthew Munson on Tue Nov 01 2022 04:11 pm

    Look into whether Wine or Proton supports it. Linux support for games has come a long long way. It used to be that if you wanted to play anything that didn't have a Linux port, or wasn't some old basic, non-complex Windows program, you were out of luck. But now you can get many games running under Linux.

    Several months ago, I tried to get a Windows game going in Linux with Proton, and it seemed to have some problems running.. I don't remember what happened now but it didn't run quite right. I'd have to mess with it some more or try other games. But it didn't seem like Proton is quite there yet as an easy solution to run Windows games in Linux.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 1 15:19:40 2022
    What do you mean by virus-laden? I'd think it's only really easy to get
    a virus if you're going to sketchy web sites and/or downloading sketchy stuff.

    If we expand the concept of virus to include Spyware, adware, etc., then Microsoft has it up to the gills in Win10/11.

    I had Win11 on this laptop for a while but recently wiped it and installed linux and much prefer how things are now. There are some conveniences in Windows that I miss but they're few.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Tue Nov 1 15:48:08 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Tue Nov 01 2022 03:19 pm

    If we expand the concept of virus to include Spyware, adware, etc., then Microsoft has it up to the gills in Win10/11.

    I've been running Windows 10 since it came out (and now 11), and I don't recall seeing ads in Windows. Also I've turned off the settings it has in regards to watching my usage habits etc..

    Do you feel like you've been negatively impacted by anything in Windows 10 or 11? I've thought about switching to Linux myself at some point, but since I started using Windows 10, I can't think of anything that has really changed or any way I've been negatively impacted by anything since I started using Windows 10.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 1 19:04:00 2022
    Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Gamgee to Matthew Munson on Mon Oct 31 2022 07:57 am

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade

    Wipe that virus-laden "OS" off the computer, install Linux, and keep on moving forward. Cost = 0.

    What do you mean by virus-laden? I'd think it's only really easy
    to get a virus if you're going to sketchy web sites and/or
    downloading sketchy stuff.

    Just a weak attempt at humor. I'm anti-Windows and sometimes can't
    resist poking at it... ;-)

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards these days.

    I started to see graphics card prices coming down and stock
    returning to stores months ago. People were starting to joke
    that scalpers were trying to return their graphics cards to the
    store because they couldn't scalp them anymore.

    Good to hear.



    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From n4tive@21:2/150 to Matthew Munson on Tue Nov 1 17:34:26 2022
    Hey,

    I absolutely love linux but it does has its share or problems, particularly in gaming. Personally I've invested a lot of time and to some extent money on windows. So I opted to debloat, harden, and remove telemetry from my windows installation. I also replaced commercial software with open source alternatives. I'm quite content with it. Still have my fedora partition in any case I have to jump ship.

    Cheers,

    -- n4tive

    ... There are three cases: UPPER CASE, lower case and brfcs.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Mon Oct 31 21:01:32 2022
    On 11/1/2022 3:58 PM, Boraxman wrote to Matthew Munson:

    Why buy an Operating System that cannot operate your computer? It seem
    pretty dismal failure on Microsoft's part, to not be able to make relat
    recent computers operate.

    I want to play Final Fantasy 14. I think not supporting ryzen 1st gen was a crime against
    humanity (e-waste).


    Look into whether Wine or Proton supports it. Linux support for games has come
    a long long way. It used to be that if you wanted to play anything that didn't
    have a Linux port, or wasn't some old basic, non-complex Windows program, you
    were out of luck. But now you can get many games running under Linux.

    In terms of the e-waste, and the crime, I agree. It is a terrible crime against the planet's ecosystem to do this as it *will* result in more waste, and that waste ends up poisoning us in the near future. Both the acquisition
    of, and disposal/recycling (if it gets recycled at all) generates long term toxic waste.

    In the end, I decided that my responsibility to future generations, and the choices *I* choose to make, are more important than some video games. Corporations have no responsibility or conscious, despite their claims. We individuals have to act as the better people and turn our backs on them.

    I am likely just going to buy a 5600G processor to replace the 1700x. I'll offer the used
    1700x free to a hobbyist who wants to make a low cost entry level computer. I don't
    have a need for a 800-1000 dollar graphics processor, I could help pay rent for the room
    i live in, help save for retirement, or use the money for a vacation. But the goal is to
    make my computer last for another 4 years.

    I do have a windows 11 laptop, but I prefer the desktop.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 1 19:08:17 2022
    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards these days. Also, nobody can actually answer that question because we don't know what you intend to do with the video card. High end gaming? Web browsing and reading email? We can't read your mind.

    Well knowing the goal of the card is imperative. But you can definitely find video cards now. The glut is gone for sure. Specifically because Ethereum merge is done.

    ... Diplomacy is saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find a rock.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 1 21:56:09 2022
    On 01 Nov 22 19:04:00, Gamgee said the following to Nightfox:

    Just a weak attempt at humor. I'm anti-Windows and sometimes can't
    resist poking at it... ;-)

    You know... I don't ever remember the Linux crowd ever going after OS/2. There was this odd level of calm, a mutual respect between the two.

    I was such a stubborn diehard with that silly OS/2 and problems at the time.

    And all the fixes, all the halfassed drivers, all the freaking things just to run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large hard-drive and basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and reinstalling was always out of the question.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Mandarax@21:1/156 to boraxman on Tue Nov 1 22:37:11 2022
    and use Linux for everything else. If you can avoid using Windows 11
    for games, you can run the latest OS and browsers and such under Linux, games, and not have to buy a whole new machine just to run Windows 11.

    I didn't purchase a new machine just to run Windows 11. My gaming PC is custom built by myself for the purpose of high gaming performance. My other Windows computer is a surface pro that is very small and I use to run my vehicle tuning software that only runs on Windows, so I keep Windows 11 on that as well.

    My other 2 computers are both running Arch linux, and my VPS is running Debian.


    Insomnia City BBS SysOp
    Kalamazoo, MI USA
    bbs.farcasternet.org Telnet 23, SSH 2222

    ... Running Windows is better than washing them!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Insomnia City BBS - Kalamazoo, MI (21:1/156)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 1 21:49:15 2022
    I've been running Windows 10 since it came out (and now 11), and I don't recall seeing ads in Windows. Also I've turned off the settings it has
    in regards to watching my usage habits etc..

    Every update I've had to elect /not/ to have ads in my start menu, or personalized ads in platform in general. It's really just an annoyance. I also got frustrated with the constant effort to make me use Edge. So, in linux, I manage everything explicitly and don't have any commercial organization trying to change my behavior or experience when I don't intentionally opt in. It's just a preference.

    Do you feel like you've been negatively impacted by anything in Windows
    10 or 11? I've thought about switching to Linux myself at some point,
    but since I started using Windows 10, I can't think of anything that has really changed or any way I've been negatively impacted by anything
    since I started using Windows 10.

    I prefer doing my dev work in a linux environment and while I appreciate WSL (and now WSL2), it was always at the end of the day just a linux VM eating up resources. And it was temperamental. More than once, my WSL install needed to get blown away and restarted from scratch.

    In linux, this is all just native. Honestly the sole thing I miss from Windows is better native game support, but with this laptop's intel GPU I'm not missing much.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Atreyu on Tue Nov 1 21:50:55 2022
    And all the fixes, all the halfassed drivers, all the freaking things
    just to run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large hard-drive and
    basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and reinstalling was always out
    of the question.

    As a morbid curiosity I purchased ArcaOS last year and installed it on modern-ish hardware. Quite a trip to see in person :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to Matthew Munson on Tue Nov 1 20:37:04 2022
    On 10/30/22 21:29, Matthew Munson wrote:
    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it
    to a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for
    this) and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at the same
    time.

    As mentioned elsewhere, may look into a 5600/5600(x) as the ?700 series
    seems to be less available, if there's an update that far.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Should be fine, if you do bump up, for the 3060, unless you're doing
    nvlink for live encoding, would probably consider an rx 6700 for a bit
    less and roughly the same raster performance (slightly lower rtx, but
    the 3060 isn't great at that anyway)


    Or just buy a bleepin new computer?

    Not sure I'd go new right now... though if you got a nice B550/570 motherboard, you could got something like 5800x/5800x3d and a faster
    nvme drive. Depends on what all you do with the computer.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 1 20:41:11 2022
    On 11/1/22 09:17, Nightfox wrote:

    Several months ago, I tried to get a Windows game going in Linux with Proton, and it seemed to have some problems running.. I don't
    remember what happened now but it didn't run quite right. I'd have to
    mess with it some more or try other games. But it didn't seem like
    Proton is quite there yet as an easy solution to run Windows games in
    Linux.

    Most of the most serious issues with newer games in Linux/Proton is
    generally around the anti-cheat.. there are updates to those systems
    that work in recent proton, but the game devs need to update.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Esc on Wed Nov 2 02:42:55 2022
    On 01 Nov 22 21:50:55, Esc said the following to Atreyu:

    And all the fixes, all the halfassed drivers, all the freaking things just to run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large hard-drive and basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and reinstalling was always out of the question.

    As a morbid curiosity I purchased ArcaOS last year and installed it on modern-ish hardware. Quite a trip to see in person :)

    I've had a few people say very nice things about Arca but if its true that one must pay a yearly "subscription" then thats unfortunate.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Al@21:4/106 to esc on Wed Nov 2 00:39:26 2022
    As a morbid curiosity I purchased ArcaOS last year and installed it on modern-ish hardware. Quite a trip to see in person :)

    I have the same issue, I've been struggling with the idea since ecs.

    So far so good but I'm not sure I can hold out forever.. ;)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 10:00:00 2022
    Am 01.11.22 schrieb Atreyu@21:1/176 in FSX_GEN:

    Hallo Atreyu,

    You know... I don't ever remember the Linux crowd ever going after OS/2. There was this odd level of calm, a mutual respect between the two.

    Maybe because some of the Linux people once used OS/2...
    That's at least my story.
    ;-)

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.56
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Matthew Munson on Wed Nov 2 23:10:13 2022
    I am likely just going to buy a 5600G processor to replace the 1700x.
    I'll offer the used
    1700x free to a hobbyist who wants to make a low cost entry level computer. I don't
    have a need for a 800-1000 dollar graphics processor, I could help pay rent for the room
    i live in, help save for retirement, or use the money for a vacation.
    But the goal is to
    make my computer last for another 4 years.



    Ha, and here I am running an AMD Phenom II. That CPU you're getting rid of would run rings around my *main* rig. Kids these days with their newfangled processor doohickeys!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Mandarax on Wed Nov 2 23:13:20 2022
    I didn't purchase a new machine just to run Windows 11. My gaming PC
    is custom built by myself for the purpose of high gaming performance.
    My other Windows computer is a surface pro that is very small and I use
    to run my vehicle tuning software that only runs on Windows, so I keep Windows 11 on that as well.

    My other 2 computers are both running Arch linux, and my VPS is running Debian.


    Insomnia City BBS SysOp
    Kalamazoo, MI USA


    Fair enough. Personally I can't be bothered sinking more and more money into games. I've upgraded enough in my life, and it just gets the point where you're tired of having to constantly buy new over and over again. Main reason I'm turned off games. Spending $000's to play the same type of games I've already played.

    I got a switch for the kids instead. That will suffice.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 06:32:36 2022

    Wow, nice. Trying to picture how that works... what bus/connector do
    they use? My outdated knowledge remembers only seeing one or two
    connectors (PCIe?) generally, for video cards.

    True, most systems only have the ability to use (2) GPUs using the PCIe slots. The only reason I have (5) GPUs is because my main PC doubles as a crypto miner and (3) of the GPUs are on PCIe risers with the cards mounted on the top of the PC case (externally).

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 06:45:34 2022

    I was such a stubborn diehard with that silly OS/2 and problems at the
    time.
    And all the fixes, all the halfassed drivers, all the freaking things just to run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large hard-drive and basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and reinstalling was always out of the question.

    I can relate and still run eCS for my BBS nodes. At least it is virtualized now and no longer living in "driver hell" with OS2.

    The other major thing that plagued OS2 for many years is the lack of decent networking support. Always way behind on the network side of things.

    At least they added Samba support in eCS and that works pretty solid.

    Even ArcaOS has network issues where the entire VM will occationally lock up completely if you have a mapped drive and the source of the map drive gets rebooted or disconnected.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From claw@21:1/210 to esc on Wed Nov 2 07:51:03 2022
    On 01 Nov 2022, esc said the following...
    Every update I've had to elect /not/ to have ads in my start menu, or personalized ads in platform in general. It's really just an annoyance.
    I also got frustrated with the constant effort to make me use Edge. So,
    in linux, I manage everything explicitly and don't have any commercial organization trying to change my behavior or experience when I don't intentionally opt in. It's just a preference.

    I prefer doing my dev work in a linux environment and while I appreciate WSL (and now WSL2), it was always at the end of the day just a linux VM eating up resources. And it was temperamental. More than once, my WSL install needed to get blown away and restarted from scratch.

    In linux, this is all just native. Honestly the sole thing I miss from Windows is better native game support, but with this laptop's intel GPU I'm not missing much.


    I love Linux. I only have windows on dual boot for VR and they are getting close to making that go. As soon as VR is working well in linux I won't be using windows anymore. IF the game doesn't run in linux I won't be supporting them. Since most games are working now it not much of a sacrifice.

    I always hate to have to boot up windows for VR. It always takes forever due to evey thing needing to update since I don't ever use it. I get thats my fault but just prefer to use Linux.

    |23|04Dr|16|12Claw
    |16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
    |10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
    |20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Wed Nov 2 07:27:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Wow, nice. Trying to picture how that works... what bus/connector do
    they use? My outdated knowledge remembers only seeing one or two
    connectors (PCIe?) generally, for video cards.

    True, most systems only have the ability to use (2) GPUs using
    the PCIe slots. The only reason I have (5) GPUs is because my
    main PC doubles as a crypto miner and (3) of the GPUs are on PCIe
    risers with the cards mounted on the top of the PC case
    (externally).

    Ahhhh, OK! Now I can picture that. Was having trouble understanding
    how you could fit so many video cards in a case! Thanks.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 07:34:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 01 Nov 22 19:04:00, Gamgee said the following to Nightfox:

    Just a weak attempt at humor. I'm anti-Windows and sometimes can't
    resist poking at it... ;-)

    You know... I don't ever remember the Linux crowd ever going
    after OS/2. There was this odd level of calm, a mutual respect
    between the two.

    I'd guess the reason for that is that back then... there wasn't a
    "crowd" of Linux users. Only a few, perhaps less than the OS/2 crowd.

    And please understand, I'm actually *not* a Linux "evangelist". I use
    it nearly exclusively, but I understand the Windows world and why it
    will continue to exist. I'm not actively campaigning against it. ;-)

    I was such a stubborn diehard with that silly OS/2 and problems
    at the time.

    And all the fixes, all the halfassed drivers, all the freaking
    things just to run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large
    hard-drive and basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and
    reinstalling was always out of the question.

    I get that, I think. I have often wondered why I didn't find OS/2
    attractive back then. Never really even tried it. I was immersed in
    MSDOS and saw no reason or need to try anything else. I was even late
    to the Win3 and Win95 parties, although I certainly did use them
    eventually. Then 98 and even <gasp> WinME, finally XP. It was about
    then (1998 or so) that I discovered Linux, and over the next 3-4 years
    moved to it completely. :-)



    ... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to killer on Wed Nov 2 07:37:00 2022
    killer wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Not sure if it's changed, but you can't find/get high end video cards these days. Also, nobody can actually answer that question because we don't know what you intend to do with the video card. High end gaming? Web browsing and reading email? We can't read your mind.

    Well knowing the goal of the card is imperative. But you can
    definitely find video cards now. The glut is gone for sure.
    Specifically because Ethereum merge is done.

    I had to look that up, but I guess it's the "bitcoin" world. I knew
    that GPU's were used for some of that work, but didn't realize how they
    had affected the market for video cards so extensively. Amazing.

    ... Diplomacy is saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find a rock.

    Stolen! ;-)



    ... If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why's it still #2?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Wed Nov 2 08:55:03 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 06:45:34, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    The other major thing that plagued OS2 for many years is the lack of decent networking support. Always way behind on the network side of things.

    Agreed. It was one of the reasons I finally ditched it for Windows 2000.

    Yes it runs BBS and DOS stuff good but just got so tired of watching all my friends actually enjoy the Internet at the time while I was stuck getting an OS/2 Netscape browser to even render a basic site correctly.

    Seeing Windows "just work" with all its networking stuff and built-in RDP remote access, tape backup etc, there was no turning back. At the time I really believed Microsoft finally got it right. Remote access and proper snapshot-based backup on OS/2 was just impossible or halfassed.

    I was also starting to manage a small office LAN and it just made sense to start using at home what I was using at work... we talked about this before I think? It was one reason I ended up buying licensing for Server 2019 and Exchange and other stuff for myself because its the only was I was going to really learn... always hated watching Youtube videos.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to N4tive on Tue Nov 1 18:04:22 2022
    On 11/1/2022 5:41 PM, N4tive wrote to Matthew Munson:



    I absolutely love linux but it does has its share or problems, particularly in
    gaming. Personally I've invested a lot of time and to some extent money on windows. So I opted to debloat, harden, and remove telemetry from my windows installation. I also replaced commercial software with open source alternatives. I'm quite content with it. Still have my fedora partition in any
    case I have to jump ship.
    I have a hostility to big tech. I am likely going to use Proton for my storage service, and
    likely use Softmaker Office as my office suite. I am thinking of ways to minimize my ways
    to sponsor big tech with much money.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 10:14:28 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 07:34:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    And please understand, I'm actually *not* a Linux "evangelist". I use
    it nearly exclusively, but I understand the Windows world and why it
    will continue to exist. I'm not actively campaigning against it. ;-)

    Up until about six months ago I was administering/babysitting a couple of Linux VM's. I'd consider my Bash skillset between beginner and intermediate, and really wasn't that much work to do on them. I just can't bring myself to use Linux at home and of course all my BBS stuff is out of the question.

    On the other hand... Microsoft is getting really stupid with Windows 11... well I guess things went off the rails beyond XP or 7.

    I largely stopped becoming a fan after Windows 7 with their decision to have the OS do everything short of sexually gratifying my morning wood. When
    Windows was just an OS that ran programs, things were actually okay.

    Now Windows talks to me like it wants to be friends. Talk to me like a computer, not a workout buddy. Give me hexadecimal errors when you crash,
    not frowny-face sad kitten QR codes. And don't tell me how "sorry" you are or how I might enjoy Candy crush in my start menu even on a supposedly professional-edition of that OS.

    Taking away taskbar labels in 11 is a huge turnoff for me and anyone else
    that must work at least a dozen or so windows open at once. And I'm not installing some stupid bugridden shareware startmenu crap to fix it.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Wed Nov 2 09:12:09 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Tue Nov 01 2022 09:49 pm

    I prefer doing my dev work in a linux environment and while I appreciate WSL (and now WSL2), it was always at the end of the day just a linux VM eating up resources. And it was temperamental. More than once, my WSL install needed to get blown away and restarted from scratch.

    I've found I can get used to either environment. For my home PC, I've mainly used Windows (and I had used DOS in the early 90s), but there was a job I had years ago where the office PCs all ran Linux, so I got used to that. Some of my dev work (at my job, at least) involves .NET work sometimes, and I feel like Visual Studio is one of the best tools for that, so I've tendeed to use Windows at work and set up other systems as needed (I've done a little bit of iOS work, so I have a Mac Mini on my desk at the office in addition to my Windows laptop).

    In linux, this is all just native. Honestly the sole thing I miss from Windows is better native game support, but with this laptop's intel GPU I'm not missing much.

    Yeah, I think the native gaming support would be something I'd miss in Windows. I've thought of possibly switching to Linux at some point (and I currently have my main desktop PC set up to dual-boot between Windows and Linux Mint).

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 09:22:48 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Atreyu to Gamgee on Tue Nov 01 2022 09:56 pm

    Just a weak attempt at humor. I'm anti-Windows and sometimes can't
    resist poking at it... ;-)

    You know... I don't ever remember the Linux crowd ever going after OS/2. There was this odd level of calm, a mutual respect between the two.

    I imagine part of it is that people generally like to question (and sometimes be more critical of) the most popular/dominant thing. OS/2 became an underdog when Windows started to become the default OS installed on many computers. In the mid-90s, I was a bit frustrated with Windows and Microsoft's practices sometimes and would have liked to see OS/2 take over somehow. In that situation though, I imagine people may have ended up complaining about OS/2 a lot more..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Wed Nov 2 09:25:54 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Atreyu on Tue Nov 01 2022 09:50 pm

    As a morbid curiosity I purchased ArcaOS last year and installed it on modern-ish hardware. Quite a trip to see in person :)

    I almost thought of buying a copy of ArcaOS too. But I really don't think I'd actually use it for anything, so I decided not to spend the money on it.

    I was different in the 90s though.. Around 1998 (or was it 1999?), I bought a copy of BeOS R4.5 (back when Be Inc. was still operating) and installed it on my secondary PC. I really liked how fast and responsive BeOS was (and I thought its UI looked awesome, too). I would have loved to see BeOS gain some serious marketshare, but by the late 90s I think it was too late for that. At the time I didn't mind buying a copy to show my support for it though.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 09:27:36 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Atreyu to Esc on Wed Nov 02 2022 02:42 am

    I've had a few people say very nice things about Arca but if its true that one must pay a yearly "subscription" then thats unfortunate.

    Yeah, I'm not big on subscription software. If it stops running if you don't renew, that would be bad. But I've seen some subscription software where if you don't renew, you can keep using it but you won't get updates. I think that's fairly similar to the usual model of buying a new version when it comes out, and I'd be more okay with that.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Weatherman on Wed Nov 2 09:29:48 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Weatherman to Gamgee on Wed Nov 02 2022 06:32 am

    slots. The only reason I have (5) GPUs is because my main PC doubles as a crypto miner and (3) of the GPUs are on PCIe risers with the cards mounted on the top of the PC case (externally).

    I've heard there are some 'external' GPUs that can be connected via Thunderbolt or similar high-speed external connection (maybe USB 3.1 could be fast enough too?).

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 11:29:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 02 Nov 22 07:34:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    And please understand, I'm actually *not* a Linux "evangelist". I use
    it nearly exclusively, but I understand the Windows world and why it
    will continue to exist. I'm not actively campaigning against it. ;-)

    Up until about six months ago I was administering/babysitting a
    couple of Linux VM's. I'd consider my Bash skillset between
    beginner and intermediate, and really wasn't that much work to do
    on them. I just can't bring myself to use Linux at home and of
    course all my BBS stuff is out of the question.

    Modern Linux is surprisingly easy to use right out of the box. Even a
    bash skillset is not really a requirement for most. If you're not
    locked in to using specific Windows software for home, you likely could
    switch over without too much hassle.

    Your BBS stuff is another matter, for sure. Are you running all of that
    on bare-metal DOS hardware, or on a 32-bit Windows machine? I think
    it's uber-cool that you run DOS stuff, actually.

    On the other hand... Microsoft is getting really stupid with
    Windows 11... well I guess things went off the rails beyond XP or
    7.

    Yeah... I haven't even seen 11 yet, although I am required to use a
    Windows 10 laptop for work stuff. I found things up to 7 to be at least barely tolerable, but it's gone downhill for sure.

    I largely stopped becoming a fan after Windows 7 with their
    decision to have the OS do everything short of sexually
    gratifying my morning wood. When Windows was just an OS that ran
    programs, things were actually okay.

    Now Windows talks to me like it wants to be friends. Talk to me
    like a computer, not a workout buddy. Give me hexadecimal errors
    when you crash, not frowny-face sad kitten QR codes. And don't
    tell me how "sorry" you are or how I might enjoy Candy crush in
    my start menu even on a supposedly professional-edition of that
    OS.

    Taking away taskbar labels in 11 is a huge turnoff for me and
    anyone else that must work at least a dozen or so windows open at
    once. And I'm not installing some stupid bugridden shareware
    startmenu crap to fix it.

    Yup, I like my OS (like my government) to stay out of my way and let me
    do what I prefer. ;-) I don't need any talking or kitten faces, for
    sure.


    ... Windows 3.1 - From the people who brought you EDLIN.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 09:39:42 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Gamgee to Atreyu on Wed Nov 02 2022 07:34 am

    I have often wondered why I didn't find OS/2
    attractive back then. Never really even tried it. I was immersed in
    MSDOS and saw no reason or need to try anything else. I was even late
    to the Win3 and Win95 parties, although I certainly did use them

    I always found alternative operating systems interesting, for the different ideas and features they offered. When I was mainly using DOS, Windows was around, but I thought it was interesting that another major company (IBM) had offered something different. I later heard that OS/2 didn't even have a GUI until a few versions in (1.3 or 2.0, I don't remember which). And compared to Windows 9x, I think OS/2 offered much better multi-tasking and stability. OS/2 was popular with BBS sysops because OS/2 allowed running multiple DOS programs easily, which was good for multi-node DOS BBSes. (And I had found DESQView in DOS seemed to do that fairly well too..)

    Also, when I was using MS-DOS, I thought it was interesting that there were alternative DOS operating systems, such as DR-DOS..

    eventually. Then 98 and even <gasp> WinME, finally XP. It was about
    then (1998 or so) that I discovered Linux, and over the next 3-4 years moved to it completely. :-)

    I've heard people complain about Windows ME.. I used it briefly and didn't have a problem with it. <shrug>

    I started hearing about Linux around 1995 or 1996 when my dad was playing with it at home, but I never really tried to seriously use Linux until around 1999 or 2000. I bought a boxed copy of SuSE Linux at CompUSA around then and installed it on my PC in a dual-boot setup..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 10:44:05 2022
    I've had a few people say very nice things about Arca but if its true
    that one must pay a yearly "subscription" then thats unfortunate.

    I don't /think/ that's the case but I can't really remember. I bought a license, threw it on my hardware, seems to be fine. *shrug*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 13:02:54 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 09:22:48, Nightfox said the following to Atreyu:

    I imagine part of it is that people generally like to question (and sometime be more critical of) the most popular/dominant thing. OS/2 became an underd when Windows started to become the default OS installed on many computers. the mid-90s, I was a bit frustrated with Windows and Microsoft's practices sometimes and would have liked to see OS/2 take over somehow. In that situation though, I imagine people may have ended up complaining about OS/2 lot more..

    When OS/2 worked for me it worked very well, ran my board like clockwork.

    Months... many months of uptime. But as time went on and I had to replace or upgrade some of the hardware the OS unfortunately started to show its age.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 13:04:55 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 09:27:36, Nightfox said the following to Atreyu:

    Yeah, I'm not big on subscription software. If it stops running if you don' renew, that would be bad. But I've seen some subscription software where if you don't renew, you can keep using it but you won't get updates. I think that's fairly similar to the usual model of buying a new version when it com out, and I'd be more okay with that.

    I suppose so. I dunno, maybe its a personal thing, I just never was a fan of SaaS as I work at a company that has a huge ERP system and its a convoluted mess. The support from the vendor is expensive and terrible.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 13:35:20 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 11:29:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    Modern Linux is surprisingly easy to use right out of the box. Even a
    bash skillset is not really a requirement for most. If you're not
    locked in to using specific Windows software for home, you likely could switch over without too much hassle.

    My main computer at home is a Falcon trading station with six monitors. I inherited this from a client who retired from finance. I use it whenever I work from home. I'm not really locked into Windows-specific stuff but all my work revolves around the cult that is MS-Office. Outlook, Excel, Teams... I can't just replace those with alternatives. At least not easily. The Excel work for one job involves a freaking mess of macros and VBA.

    Your BBS stuff is another matter, for sure. Are you running all of that
    on bare-metal DOS hardware, or on a 32-bit Windows machine? I think
    it's uber-cool that you run DOS stuff, actually.

    Professor Hud doesn't think so. ;)

    Yes my BBS is all in 32-bit Windows XP on Vmware EXSI. Windows being nothing more than a glorified multitasker for all the DOS stuff.

    It made sense to move to Vmware since I manage that stuff at work and home for other things. There was no real need to run bare-metal anymore so the beatup IBM R51 that gave many good years of uptime was retired after 15~20+ years.

    The board must run on Windows XP and nothing higher because I'm 100% convinced there is a bug in NTVDM in higher versions where Microsoft did something that would crash DOS sessions with bizarre problems. I gave up and left it on XP.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 13:40:48 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 09:39:42, Nightfox said the following to Gamgee:

    I started hearing about Linux around 1995 or 1996 when my dad was playing wi it at home, but I never really tried to seriously use Linux until around 199 or 2000. I bought a boxed copy of SuSE Linux at CompUSA around then and installed it on my PC in a dual-boot setup..

    The first Linux I used, which I actually didn't "mind" too much was an early copy of Slackware.

    Before SELinux...

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 13:52:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 02 Nov 22 11:29:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    Modern Linux is surprisingly easy to use right out of the box. Even a
    bash skillset is not really a requirement for most. If you're not
    locked in to using specific Windows software for home, you likely could switch over without too much hassle.

    My main computer at home is a Falcon trading station with six
    monitors. I inherited this from a client who retired from
    finance. I use it whenever I work from home. I'm not really
    locked into Windows-specific stuff but all my work revolves
    around the cult that is MS-Office. Outlook, Excel, Teams... I
    can't just replace those with alternatives. At least not easily.
    The Excel work for one job involves a freaking mess of macros and
    VBA.

    Yes, I have heard that Office-related stuff comes pretty close to
    locking in to Windows. The opensource/Linux alternatives can have
    problems with complicated documents.

    Your BBS stuff is another matter, for sure. Are you running all of that
    on bare-metal DOS hardware, or on a 32-bit Windows machine? I think
    it's uber-cool that you run DOS stuff, actually.

    Professor Hud doesn't think so. ;)

    Not too many (any?) folks care much about what that troll thinks... ;-)

    Yes my BBS is all in 32-bit Windows XP on Vmware EXSI. Windows
    being nothing more than a glorified multitasker for all the DOS
    stuff.

    It made sense to move to Vmware since I manage that stuff at work
    and home for other things. There was no real need to run
    bare-metal anymore so the beatup IBM R51 that gave many good
    years of uptime was retired after 15~20+ years.

    The board must run on Windows XP and nothing higher because I'm
    100% convinced there is a bug in NTVDM in higher versions where
    Microsoft did something that would crash DOS sessions with
    bizarre problems. I gave up and left it on XP.

    Excellent. Makes good sense to me. I'm sure the hand-wringers let you
    know how much of a "security risk" it is to run an XP box... LOL

    Keep on rockin'.


    ... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 15:12:21 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 13:52:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    Yes, I have heard that Office-related stuff comes pretty close to
    locking in to Windows. The opensource/Linux alternatives can have
    problems with complicated documents.

    Its amusing to me that MS-Office seems to run better on Mac than Windows.

    Excellent. Makes good sense to me. I'm sure the hand-wringers let you know how much of a "security risk" it is to run an XP box... LOL

    Only the professor made a stink about it... nobody cares otherwise.

    Theres close to a hundred downlinks here in total with the vast majority being Mystic and Synchronet, mostly all Linux or Pi systems. I used to have an Amiga link and not too long ago I had a downlink who connected via. dialup modem, he was the head of some local disability-support group here in Toronto and they had some kind of Wildcat/Viamail setup shared by attendees.

    BinkD is the busiest process here by far and constantly serving connections. Tossing mail and BBS callers aren't even a blip on resources here.

    Its interesting sometimes just to sit back and watch it toss mail to everyone... a DOS setup churning packets for a crowd of mostly Linux boards.

    I get the odd incoming slam from telnet script kiddies but nothing serious. Probably could move away from port 23 but then it just "aint telnet" in my opinion. Always hated having to know a custom port to call someone's board.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Exodus@21:1/176 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 16:20:23 2022
    run it on a "modern" Pentium MMX with a large hard-drive and basic ATI video card and newfangled USB and reinstalling was always out of the question.

    Oh, but when you did .... how beautiful it was .... fresh boot manager, fresh install .... no shit laying around .... I miss OS/2 "in my head" ... but when I installed Arca OS I was like oh .... yeah, now I remember. <G>

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Exodus@21:1/176 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 16:21:25 2022
    Only the professor made a stink about it... nobody cares otherwise.

    You better upgrade that to VISTA .. it's WAY BETTER than XP!!!!

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 14:25:46 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Atreyu to Nightfox on Wed Nov 02 2022 01:04 pm

    I suppose so. I dunno, maybe its a personal thing, I just never was a fan of SaaS as I work at a company that has a huge ERP system and its a convoluted mess. The support from the vendor is expensive and terrible.

    I'm still not a big fan of SaaS either..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Exodus on Wed Nov 2 14:27:51 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Exodus to Atreyu on Wed Nov 02 2022 04:21 pm

    Only the professor made a stink about it... nobody cares otherwise.

    You better upgrade that to VISTA .. it's WAY BETTER than XP!!!!

    Windows Hasta La Vista

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 17:39:23 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 14:27:51, Nightfox said the following to Exodus:


    Windows Hasta La Vista

    Ha! Good one!

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 17:39:43 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 14:25:46, Nightfox said the following to Atreyu:

    I'm still not a big fan of SaaS either..

    I hate Google Workspaces... their "spreadsheet" app is a joke.

    Bah.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 18:53:57 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Nightfox to esc on Tue Nov 01 2022 03:48 pm

    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Tue Nov 01 2022 03:19 pm

    If we expand the concept of virus to include Spyware, adware, etc., the Microsoft has it up to the gills in Win10/11.

    I've been running Windows 10 since it came out (and now 11), and I don't rec

    Do you feel like you've been negatively impacted by anything in Windows 10 o atively impacted by anything since I started using Windows 10.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

    I can say that latter iterations of Windows actively try to get the user to purchase or use certain sets of services.

    Most Wintel hardware comes preloaded with crapware. It has so much of it that I swear it makes the computers weight an aditional kilogram or two. If that does not count as advertising for products and services, I don't know what does.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Exodus@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 20:04:04 2022
    You better upgrade that to VISTA .. it's WAY BETTER than XP!!!!

    Windows Hasta La Vista

    You missed the trolling of Jas on this.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Atreyu on Wed Nov 2 20:17:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Gamgee <=-

    On 02 Nov 22 13:52:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    Excellent. Makes good sense to me. I'm sure the hand-wringers let you know how much of a "security risk" it is to run an XP box... LOL

    Only the professor made a stink about it... nobody cares
    otherwise.

    And nobody cares what that one thinks or says.

    Theres close to a hundred downlinks here in total with the vast
    majority being Mystic and Synchronet, mostly all Linux or Pi
    systems. I used to have an Amiga link and not too long ago I had
    a downlink who connected via. dialup modem, he was the head of
    some local disability-support group here in Toronto and they had
    some kind of Wildcat/Viamail setup shared by attendees.

    Nice.

    BinkD is the busiest process here by far and constantly serving connections. Tossing mail and BBS callers aren't even a blip on
    resources here.

    Its interesting sometimes just to sit back and watch it toss mail
    to everyone... a DOS setup churning packets for a crowd of mostly
    Linux boards.

    Yeah that is cool. There are actually quite a number of examples of DOS
    still being used in business and science. Many retail POS / "cash
    register" systems use it, and I know that it runs on some very high tech modern medical devices. I think it may also be used in the financial
    world some too.

    I get the odd incoming slam from telnet script kiddies but
    nothing serious. Probably could move away from port 23 but then
    it just "aint telnet" in my opinion. Always hated having to know
    a custom port to call someone's board.

    I feel the same about that. Mostly the scripts/bots don't affect
    anything worth worrying about.


    ... Alimony: Bounty on the Mutiny
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Mandarax@21:1/156 to Arelor on Wed Nov 2 21:47:05 2022
    Most Wintel hardware comes preloaded with crapware. It has so much of it that I swear it makes the computers weight an aditional kilogram or two.

    I find this more true of pre-made computers from PC manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc). I have build all my own PC's that run Windows and don't find much pre-loaded "crapware" at all. The most I find preloaded is like Office links and Xbox game stuff. Which isn't much and easily removable via unintall.

    What the PC manufacturers load on there is a whole other story.


    Insomnia City BBS SysOp
    Kalamazoo, MI USA
    bbs.farcasternet.org Telnet 23, SSH 2222

    ... There is an exception to every rule, except this one.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Insomnia City BBS - Kalamazoo, MI (21:1/156)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Gamgee on Wed Nov 2 21:44:50 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 20:17:00, Gamgee said the following to Atreyu:

    Yeah that is cool. There are actually quite a number of examples of DOS still being used in business and science. Many retail POS / "cash register" systems use it, and I know that it runs on some very high tech modern medical devices. I think it may also be used in the financial
    world some too.

    Correct, the biggest "woah" moment for me was understanding why a lot of medical/dental equipment is still largely on XP or 7. The way it was explained to me at the time was that there is a tremendous amount of legal or regulatory approval involved given its mission critical status not to mention the cost
    of lets say an MRI or X-ray system.

    Weatherman/Mark who posts here probably knows more, I think he runs IT for a major hospital where he lives.

    I keep forgetting a lot of older CNC/milling machines still run DOS. If a machine is running fine and poses no threat being standalone/not on a Lan, there isn't an incentive to upgrade.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110.1 to All on Wed Nov 2 21:43:34 2022
    *** Quoting Gamgee from a message to Atreyu ***

    Yeah that is cool. There are actually quite a number of examples of
    DOS still being used in business and science. Many retail POS /
    "cash register" systems use it, and I know that it runs on some very
    high tech modern medical devices. I think it may also be used in
    the financial world some too.

    Some of the PLC systems at a previous job were just industrial PCs that run Windows 98 embedded. I was surprised when one of the systems that operated a large conveyor belt to a "cooling spiral" went offline and a maintenance technician brought it up to me asking if I "had one of these" and held up a 2.5" IDE hard drive.

    As it happened, I had a stack of old laptops and sure enough there was a laptop with one in there. I helped him ghost the failing drive to this used one and they were back in business.

    The Toshiba phone system there also had voicemail "card" in it with a spinning 2.5" SATA that runs Windows XP embedded. Lot of places run Windows where you may not expect it.

    I'm also reminded of the time I went into a ScotiaBank one morning back in
    the late 90s or early 2000s and was amused to see the ATMs rebooting and that they ran OS/2. I'm sure they've moved off of it by now, but it was still
    neat to see.


    Jay

    ... Why do we tell actors to "break a leg?" Because every play has a cast

    --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
    * Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Wed Nov 2 21:06:03 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Nov 02 2022 06:53 pm

    I can say that latter iterations of Windows actively try to get the user to purchase or use certain sets of services.

    I don't remember Windows ever trying to get me to purchase other services..?

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Wed Nov 2 21:08:03 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Nov 02 2022 06:53 pm

    I can say that latter iterations of Windows actively try to get the user to purchase or use certain sets of services.

    I don't remember Windows itself ever trying to get me to purchase other services..?

    Most Wintel hardware comes preloaded with crapware. It has so much of it that I swear it makes the computers weight an aditional kilogram or two. If that does not count as advertising for products and services, I don't know what does.

    That wouldn't be a fault of Windows itself, but computer makers that install that crapware on their computers. I think it's been a while since I've seen a computer like that, but usually I build my own desktop PC, so I just install Windows on it without the crapware..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Boraxman on Wed Nov 2 19:06:18 2022

    Ha, and here I am running an AMD Phenom II. That CPU you're getting rid of would run rings around my *main* rig. Kids these days with their newfangled processor doohickeys!

    Perhaps I could mail someone that processor. I mean the ryzen 1700x.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 2 19:10:54 2022
    On 11/1/2022 8:44 PM, Tracker1 wrote to Matthew Munson:

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it
    to a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for
    this) and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at the same
    time.

    As mentioned elsewhere, may look into a 5600/5600(x) as the ?700 series seems to be less available, if there's an update that far.

    Also is a 1070 Nvidia card still ok for this, or should I go for
    the gusto and get a 3060.

    Should be fine, if you do bump up, for the 3060, unless you're doing
    nvlink for live encoding, would probably consider an rx 6700 for a bit
    less and roughly the same raster performance (slightly lower rtx, but
    the 3060 isn't great at that anyway)


    Or just buy a bleepin new computer?

    Not sure I'd go new right now... though if you got a nice B550/570 motherboard, you could got something like 5800x/5800x3d and a faster
    nvme drive. Depends on what all you do with the computer.
    --
    Playing Final Fantasy XIV, media consumption. BBS hosting.
    I know If I buy a new MB I will likely need to buy a fresh windows license.
    My laptop has a ryzen 5800h, but I prefer to use my desktop for more functions.

    I think 5700x with a cooler, a pci 3.0 nvme drive will likely be the last upgrades for this
    computer. Im ok with the 1070 for the time being.


    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From apam@21:1/182 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 3 14:44:17 2022
    I don't remember Windows itself ever trying to get me to purchase
    other services..?

    I know it does everytime you install it, it tries to sell you Office and
    an XBox game subscription.

    Windows 10 has a bunch of stuff it installs like disney plus, spotify
    etc on the start menu.

    And every few weeks it asks me to "finish setting up my computer" where
    it insists I use edge and reset to the "prefered browser settings"

    Windows 11 seems to have less of the preinstalled crap (or at least makes
    it less noticable).

    That wouldn't be a fault of Windows itself, but computer makers that
    install that crapware on their computers. I think it's been a while
    since I've seen a computer like that, but usually I build my own
    desktop PC, so I just install Windows on it without the crapware..

    I haven't bought a new computer from a computer maker in years, but I do remember that they often had there own set of junk they install (Virus
    scanner trials etc) I don't know what Arelor was talking about, but
    Windows 10 definitly installs a bunch of crap (Windows Store programs,
    like disney plus etc) It's always there on a clean install for me.

    To me it's kind of disappointing that the OS you pay for has all the ads, whereas the free os doesn't. Although that's not entirely true, firefox
    has sponsored items on the home page on every OS (but you can turn them
    off easily enough) and most linux distros have firefox installed.

    Having said all that though, I'm using Windows 10 currently on this
    laptop. It "came" with windows 11 from ebay, but is too old to update to
    22H2 or whatever the latest version of windows 11 is, so I reinstalled
    windows 10 - (which it would have originally come with).

    I don't mind windows 11, it's much nicer than windows 10, but the
    hardware requirements suck.

    Andrew


    --- Talisman v0.46-dev (Windows/x64)
    * Origin: Smuggler's Cove - Private BBS (21:1/182)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 3 04:57:36 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Wed Nov 02 2022 09:06 pm

    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed Nov 02 2022 06:53 pm

    I can say that latter iterations of Windows actively try to get the use to purchase or use certain sets of services.

    I don't remember Windows ever trying to get me to purchase other services..?

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

    Then my bet is you ran a cleaner right after installing any Windows, and it was so long ago that you don t remember :-P

    My mother is the only person in my direct family who runs any form of Windows. My memories from installing her system were that I thought it was nearly as aggressive as Android in trying you to buy into their ecosystem. It felt less of a tool to me and more like a platform for people to sell you services on it.

    If you ever install a blatantly comercial Linux distribution you will notice they come with links for you to subscribe to higher support tiers and the like, and the documentation will try very hard for you to do it. With Windows I have that exact feeling multiplied by three. They try to shove up your ass subscriptions from their SaaS products, they try you to purchase 3rd party games over platforms they control and they try you to use their news feeds instead of others.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 2 21:39:22 2022
    On 11/2/2022 9:13 PM, Nightfox wrote to Arelor:


    I can say that latter iterations of Windows actively try to get the user
    to purchase or use certain sets of services.

    I don't remember Windows ever trying to get me to purchase other services..?

    Microsoft 365, for Office and OneDrive. Or XBOX for PC Gaming and XBOX Interaction.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to apam on Thu Nov 3 09:19:42 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: apam to Nightfox on Thu Nov 03 2022 02:44 pm

    I don't remember Windows itself ever trying to get me to purchase
    other services..?

    I know it does everytime you install it, it tries to sell you Office and an XBox game subscription.

    Windows 10 has a bunch of stuff it installs like disney plus, spotify
    etc on the start menu.

    Having programs installed by default is different than trying to get you to purchase something. I've never felt compelled to pay for those extra apps or thought they were trying to make me purchase them, but maybe that's because I don't really pay much attention to them.. I'll consider paying for something if I use it, but those are typically not apps I use. I don't really fault Microsoft for doing that - It seems every OS and computer maker installs stuff they think you might use (and want to pay for), but you aren't forced to.

    And every few weeks it asks me to "finish setting up my computer" where
    it insists I use edge and reset to the "prefered browser settings"

    I've heard that but I haven't really experienced that myself.

    To me it's kind of disappointing that the OS you pay for has all the ads,

    I've heard that too, but I haven't been seeing ads in Windows 10 or 11 on my PC..

    I don't mind windows 11, it's much nicer than windows 10, but the
    hardware requirements suck.

    I think the only weird hardware requirement in Windows 11 is the TPM hardware. It seems if it weren't for that, Windows 11 would run on a lot more computers.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Thu Nov 3 09:20:47 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Thu Nov 03 2022 04:57 am

    I don't remember Windows ever trying to get me to purchase other
    services..?

    Then my bet is you ran a cleaner right after installing any Windows, and it was so long ago that you don t remember :-P

    Nope, I didn't run a cleaner. I actually haven't run a Windows cleaner in years - I found those things seem to do more harm than good.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Matthew Munson on Thu Nov 3 09:32:37 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Matthew Munson to Nightfox on Wed Nov 02 2022 09:39 pm

    I don't remember Windows ever trying to get me to purchase other
    services..?

    Microsoft 365, for Office and OneDrive. Or XBOX for PC Gaming and XBOX Interaction.

    I don't recall seeing any ads or anything from Windows trying to get me to purchase any of that..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to apam on Thu Nov 3 15:57:39 2022
    I don't mind windows 11, it's much nicer than windows 10, but the
    hardware requirements suck.

    The one thing I absolutely hated about Win11 was the right-click flyout menu in file explorer. Burying all the useful options in submenus requiring more clicking around was pretty lame.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Warpslide on Thu Nov 3 18:50:01 2022
    On 02 Nov 22 21:43:34, Warpslide said the following to All:

    The Toshiba phone system there also had voicemail "card" in it with a spinni 2.5" SATA that runs Windows XP embedded. Lot of places run Windows where yo may not expect it.

    I have a part-time client that still runs an Intertel Axxess phone system.

    Two huge Pentium 2 rack PC's running Windows 2000, Brooktrout cards and a rare IDE Raid card... with battery and a loud buzzer onboard.

    I'm paid handsomely to make sure it "just works"... so... off to Ebay I went, stocking up on spare boards and parts.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 3 18:52:37 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 09:32:37, Nightfox said the following to Matthew Munson:

    I don't recall seeing any ads or anything from Windows trying to get me to purchase any of that..

    Wellllllll.... Windows 10 does "nag" quite a bit unless its Enterprise LTSC or on a domain with a fairly pedantic GPO enforced.

    It starts right from a fresh install by whining about signing in with an MS account unless you purposely disconnect from the Internet or savvy enough to treat the install as configuring for a domain-scenario.

    I used to be a huge Microsoft fan for being able to have a successful career from their products, but lately I miss the days when Windows was focused on being an OS instead of being my buddy or life-partner.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From apam@21:1/182 to esc on Fri Nov 4 09:01:26 2022
    The one thing I absolutely hated about Win11 was the right-click
    flyout menu in file explorer. Burying all the useful options in
    submenus requiring more clicking around was pretty lame.

    Yeah, that's annoying. You can actually disable it though. It's a
    registry key, I had to google it, but once you enter the key the full
    menus are back.

    Andrew


    --- Talisman v0.46-dev (Windows/x64)
    * Origin: Smuggler's Cove - Private BBS (21:1/182)
  • From ogg@21:2/147 to apam on Thu Nov 3 18:19:52 2022
    On 04 Nov 2022, apam said the following...

    The one thing I absolutely hated about Win11 was the right-click
    flyout menu in file explorer. Burying all the useful options in submenus requiring more clicking around was pretty lame.

    Yeah, that's annoying. You can actually disable it though. It's a
    registry key, I had to google it, but once you enter the key the full menus are back.

    Andrew


    I'm going to look for it as soon as I'm done here!

    ogg
    Sysop, Altair IV BBS
    fsxNet 21:2/147, fidonet 1:106/1

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Thu Nov 3 18:30:45 2022

    Ahhhh, OK! Now I can picture that. Was having trouble understanding
    how you could fit so many video cards in a case! Thanks.

    The system also doubles as a space heater. When you have (5) video cards going full tilt, no need for standard heat in the room.

    My main workstation has many roles. My main station used for both personal and work use, crypto mining, and auxilary heating all wrapped up in one.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From ogg@21:2/147 to ogg on Thu Nov 3 18:42:48 2022
    Yeah, that's annoying. You can actually disable it though. It's a registry key, I had to google it, but once you enter the key the full menus are back.

    Andrew


    I'm going to look for it as soon as I'm done here!
    Here's the link that I followed;

    https://www.elevenforum.com/t/disable-show-more-options-context-menu-in-windows -11.1589/

    After applying the registry mod, I did have to log out/log in to get it to work.

    Thanks Andrew for the tip!

    ogg
    Sysop, Altair IV BBS
    fsxNet 21:2/147, fidonet 1:106/1

    ... Kilometers are shorter than miles. Save gas, take your trip in kilometers

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Thu Nov 3 18:45:25 2022

    Agreed. It was one of the reasons I finally ditched it for Windows 2000.

    Me too. I have always had many systems and never totally ditched OS2, but didn't use it as my main system. Virtualization actually saved me lots of space and power. At one time, I had around (12) PCs/servers running at home in my mini-data center in the basement. These days, all those are wrapped into (3) 4U Supermicro servers.

    my friends actually enjoy the Internet at the time while I was stuck
    getting an OS/2 Netscape browser to even render a basic site correctly.

    That was painfull, no doubt!

    Seeing Windows "just work" with all its networking stuff and built-in RDP remote access, tape backup etc, there was no turning back. At the time I really believed Microsoft finally got it right. Remote access and proper snapshot-based backup on OS/2 was just impossible or halfassed.

    Everything was much easier in Windows. Drivers, backups, networking, etc. I don't remember the software name, but I used an OS/2 tape backup program at one time long ago to back up the BBS. It worked ok, but Windows software always blew away the OS2 equivalents.

    OS2 was the BEST at multi-tasking DOS apps. Hands down WAY better than Windows. That is the only thing I ended up using it for, and still do. I can even run the old DOS doors in OS2, where Windows DOS session will crash.

    I was also starting to manage a small office LAN and it just made sense to start using at home what I was using at work... we talked about this
    before I
    think? It was one reason I ended up buying licensing for Server 2019 and Exchange and other stuff for myself because its the only was I was going
    to really learn... always hated watching Youtube videos.

    Yeah, there are many times my home stuff and work stuff bleed together. I end up doing something at home or work and then replicate the same thing at the other.

    I learn the best by hands on tinkering, but do enjoy YouTube videos for certain specific things. Normally very unique things. More often than not, I'm watching some metal video or redneck car/diesel truck channel.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Thu Nov 3 18:48:22 2022

    Taking away taskbar labels in 11 is a huge turnoff for me and anyone else that must work at least a dozen or so windows open at once. And I'm not installing some stupid bugridden shareware startmenu crap to fix it.

    My first looks at Windows 11 remind me of Windows 8 (version 2). Where most will want to run shareware to make it more like Windows 10.

    The main goal of Microsoft at this point is to pull people kicking and screaming into their cloud and will hook the OS into it. Not a path that makes me happy.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 3 18:51:59 2022

    I've heard there are some 'external' GPUs that can be connected via Thunderbolt or similar high-speed external connection (maybe USB 3.1 could be fast enough too?).

    I have (3) of my GPUs sitting on top of my PC case on PCIe risers that have double-sided velcro to hold them on there. They are connected to a PCiE USB controller, and I have all the power cables extended and going out the back of the case.

    I wouldn't suggest using this method for connecting them to displays. Too slow for that type of thing, especially at 4k. Only good for mining.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Thu Nov 3 18:55:52 2022

    Modern Linux is surprisingly easy to use right out of the box. Even a
    bash skillset is not really a requirement for most. If you're not
    locked in to using specific Windows software for home, you likely could switch over without too much hassle.

    I will agree that operating systems like Ubuntu have come a long way in ease of use. I don't consider myself a linux guru at all, but I have set up many different platforms using various linux versions.

    Home Assistant, LibreNMS, and FluxNode to name a few. I run everything in my virtual environment from eCS, various linux versions and various Windows desktop and server operating systems.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Thu Nov 3 18:59:04 2022

    When OS/2 worked for me it worked very well, ran my board like clockwork.

    Months... many months of uptime. But as time went on and I had to replace
    or upgrade some of the hardware the OS unfortunately started to show its age.

    Ultimately, what decides if an OS will survive or die off is application and driver support. Even Windows is starting to see lots of major platforms move away from them to various open source appliances.

    Even though I loved my old Blackberry, all the app development moved towards Apple and Google/Android. That was the end of Blackberry. Same thing happened to Novell.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Thu Nov 3 17:11:32 2022

    Correct, the biggest "woah" moment for me was understanding why a lot of medical/dental equipment is still largely on XP or 7. The way it was explained to me at the time was that there is a tremendous amount of legal or regulatory approval involved given its mission critical status not to mention the cost of lets say an MRI or X-ray system.

    Weatherman/Mark who posts here probably knows more, I think he runs IT for
    a major hospital where he lives.

    Regulatory requirements (UL certifications) are the main reason why lots clinical based IT hardware is old and typically lacks redundancy and modern advanced configurations. They also pay way more for the old gear that has the "UL" certification on it.

    I have seen cases where the 24-port network switch was UL certified, but the 48-port wasn't (exact same hardware/switch - just one had more ports). So they would have to buy (2) 24-port switches vs (1) 48-port switch.

    Basically, it is a regultory requirement to buy old outdated crap because it takes years and years to get anything relatively new - certified.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Matthew Munson on Thu Nov 3 06:33:00 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to All <=-

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it to
    a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for this)
    and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at the same time.

    I'd say stick with Windows 10, sounds like a decent system. I'm on 10 and 11 with my desktop and laptop respectively, and I don't see a killer app for 11 yet.




    ... Onward, to meatspace!
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 10:14:03 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 18:59:04, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    Even though I loved my old Blackberry, all the app development moved towards Apple and Google/Android. That was the end of Blackberry. Same thing happened to Novell.

    Ahhhhh Blackberry... That was my "company wedding ring" for a decade.

    And yes, I do remember being told as a teenager that I should study Novell because they will be the future. I was told to forget about Banyan Vines or Lantastic... its gonna be Novell ALL the way to the millenium. Microsoft wasn't even mentioned in conversation.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 10:15:02 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 17:11:32, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    I have seen cases where the 24-port network switch was UL certified, but the 48-port wasn't (exact same hardware/switch - just one had more ports). So they would have to buy (2) 24-port switches vs (1) 48-port switch.

    I thought UL cert was sortof mandatory, like CSA cert for Canadian
    electronics?

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Nov 4 10:22:15 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 06:33:00, Poindexter Fortran said the following to Matthew Munson:

    I'd say stick with Windows 10, sounds like a decent system. I'm on 10 and 1 with my desktop and laptop respectively, and I don't see a killer app for 1 yet.

    I think we might be past the era of "killer apps". I don't see a program being sold thats going to make people race out and buy 11.

    MS-Office was the last of them, I think. Now its Saas and Chromebooks as the latest fad.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 10:32:27 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 18:45:25, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    Everything was much easier in Windows. Drivers, backups, networking, etc. don't remember the software name, but I used an OS/2 tape backup program at one time long ago to back up the BBS. It worked ok, but Windows software always blew away the OS2 equivalents.

    Exactly. Thats what I suspect many people overlook about those versions of Windows.... NT4, 2000, XP. Those to me are "real Windows" that nothing else at the time could really compete with. Everything was so simple on them and even lots of complicated scenarios ultimately had a resolution.

    The moment it became Vista and 7 I just saw it as eye-candy and Microsoft marketing taking over the show... I don't need sticky notes or 3d-paint and certainly not Candy crush on the start menu of 10 Professional edition.

    OS2 was the BEST at multi-tasking DOS apps. Hands down WAY better than Windows. That is the only thing I ended up using it for, and still do. I c even run the old DOS doors in OS2, where Windows DOS session will crash.

    Agreed, NTVDM is very choppy and OS/2 runs circles around it but unfortunately I'm not in a position to change for the reasons I mentioned before.

    I learn the best by hands on tinkering, but do enjoy YouTube videos for certain specific things. Normally very unique things. More often than not, I'm watching some metal video or redneck car/diesel truck channel.

    I really avoid Youtube as often as possible, its just not for me. There is maybe one or two people that made videos restoring old vintage Hifi and doing circuit-board repairs but thats it.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 10:33:41 2022
    On 03 Nov 22 18:48:22, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    My first looks at Windows 11 remind me of Windows 8 (version 2). Where most will want to run shareware to make it more like Windows 10.

    The main goal of Microsoft at this point is to pull people kicking and screaming into their cloud and will hook the OS into it. Not a path that makes me happy.

    I used to doubt the "Windows 365" conspiracy theory but I'm starting to believe it more. Google has that model down to a science.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Exodus@21:1/176 to Atreyu on Fri Nov 4 19:18:00 2022

    Lantastic... its gonna be Novell ALL the way to the millenium. Microsoft

    Yeah I remember that also.

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 06:40:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-

    The main goal of Microsoft at this point is to pull people kicking and screaming into their cloud and will hook the OS into it. Not a path
    that makes me happy.

    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty well
    and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well on Linux browsers.

    Prices are better than G suite, with a home use license you can get 5
    Exchange mailboxes, 1TB per person, 5 app licenses, and it's $69/year.


    ... The exception also declares the rule
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 4 06:41:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Home Assistant, LibreNMS, and FluxNode to name a few. I run everything
    in my virtual environment from eCS, various linux versions and various Windows desktop and server operating systems.

    Using eCS to manage a modern virtual environment - that rocks!


    ... The exception also declares the rule
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Nov 4 21:38:58 2022
    On 11/3/2022 6:40 AM, Poindexter Fortran wrote to Matthew Munson:


    Matthew Munson wrote to All <=-

    Since Windows 11 does not accept my Ryzen 1700x, should I upgrade it to a 3700x on my B350-Prime Plus motherboard (i flashed my bios for this) and perhaps buy a 1tb ssd to upgrade my storage at the same time.

    I'd say stick with Windows 10, sounds like a decent system. I'm on 10 and 11
    with my desktop and laptop respectively, and I don't see a killer app for 11
    yet.
    -
    Its likely to lose support in 2025. My 5800h is a laptop under 11. I was thinking of
    spending 412 bucks to change the processor in my old pc to a 5700x.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * Ontario, California (21:4/108)
  • From Phigan@21:4/10 to Nightfox on Sat Nov 5 11:59:52 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Nightfox to Exodus on Wed Nov 02 2022 14:27:51

    Windows Hasta La Vista

    dot box dot sk.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Mutiny BBS - mutinybbs.com - telnet:2332 - ssh:2232
    * Origin: fsxNet FTN<>QWK Gateway (21:4/10)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 5 11:18:35 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Fri Nov 04 2022 06:40 am

    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty well and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well on Linux browsers.

    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software. Otherwise, if software is all web-based (or otherwise runs from an internet server), we wouldn't need much more than dumb terminals at home (whereas typically it's a good thing to have your own storage and processing power at home).. In some ways, it seems like computing is coming full-circle.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Warpslide@21:3/110.1 to Nightfox on Sat Nov 5 14:49:30 2022
    *** Quoting Nightfox from a message to poindexter FORTRAN ***

    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that
    if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run
    those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software. Otherwise, if software is all web-based (or otherwise runs from an internet server), we wouldn't need much more than dumb terminals at
    home (whereas typically it's a good thing to have your own storage
    and processing power at home).. In some ways, it seems like
    computing is coming full-circle.

    We recently explored various Microsoft cloud offerings, one of them being something called "Universal Print". This moves your print server to the
    cloud and also lets you set permissions for your various locations as to who can print where, all kind of neat.

    Until you realize that if you loose internet access, you can't print. You could be sitting right next to a printer, on the same network, but if your location loses internet access, no printing for you.

    We decided to pass on that feature.


    Jay

    ... Mistrust first impulses, they are always good

    --- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
    * Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to Warpslide on Sat Nov 5 10:27:12 2022
    I'm also reminded of the time I went into a ScotiaBank one morning back
    in the late 90s or early 2000s and was amused to see the ATMs rebooting and that they ran OS/2. I'm sure they've moved off of it by now, but
    it was still neat to see.

    OS/2 is the most commonly used operating system for ATMs. Still is, but I
    have noticed more with Windows Embedded in there now.

    Surprising what actually gets implemented. Feel like at times it is security through obscurity. Once IBM gets their hands in a cookie jar they have a tendency to keep a tight grip on things.

    Killer

    ... An elven cloak is always the height of fashion.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From killer@21:2/150 to Atreyu on Sat Nov 5 10:42:11 2022
    The main goal of Microsoft at this point is to pull people kicking and screaming into their cloud and will hook the OS into it. Not a path th makes me happy.

    I used to doubt the "Windows 365" conspiracy theory but I'm starting to believe it more. Google has that model down to a science.
    `
    Makes spying on your competitors so much easier when their data is all stored in the cloud and they don't notice the extra resource consumption as your are indexing their data.

    Killer

    ... If someone asks what race you are, tell them "human".

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 5 13:44:14 2022
    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty
    well and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well
    on Linux browsers.

    I'm not sure I agree about the M365 vs GSuite - I have been on GSuite since January and previously on Microsoft products and I far and away prefer GSuite for collaboration. But I guess it's subjective. *shrug*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Sat Nov 5 13:45:20 2022
    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software. Otherwise,

    I'm the same, but it's because I fly a lot and internet on planes is always shoddy (especially when flying over the ocean for some reason).

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Atreyu on Sat Nov 5 07:34:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Weatherman <=-

    OS2 was the BEST at multi-tasking DOS apps. Hands down WAY better than Windows. That is the only thing I ended up using it for, and still do. I

    even run the old DOS doors in OS2, where Windows DOS session will crash.

    Agreed, NTVDM is very choppy and OS/2 runs circles around it but unfortunately I'm not in a position to change for the reasons I
    mentioned before.


    My spin on it was that OS/2 multitasked DOS apps amazingly well (being able
    to run DOS windows with Novell drivers while still having lots of memory, running lots of DOS windows, and so on...) but as soon as hardware
    continued to improve, that became moot.

    I ran my BBS on a desktop running OS/2 on a 486, and was able to run the BBS in the background just fine. A couple of years later, Windows95 running on a Pentium 233MMX could do the same thing, albeit using much more horsepower to do so.


    ... Abandon desire
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 5 19:59:10 2022
    My spin on it was that OS/2 multitasked DOS apps amazingly well (being able to run DOS windows with Novell drivers while still having lots of memory, running lots of DOS windows, and so on...) but as soon as hardware continued to improve, that became moot.

    I never actually saw OS/2 for myself back in those days. I went straight from DOS/Win3.11 to Win95. I was only ever running a single node when things were dialup so I suppose I didn't miss much. *shrug*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Sun Nov 6 21:55:42 2022
    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well on L browsers.

    One thing I'm still not comfortable with regarding web apps is that if your internet service goes down, you'll be unable to access/run those programs. I still like to have locally-installed software. Otherwise,
    if software is all web-based (or otherwise runs from an internet
    server), we wouldn't need much more than dumb terminals at home (whereas typically it's a good thing to have your own storage and processing
    power at home).. In some ways, it seems like computing is coming full-circle.

    Nightfox

    It's weird, the whole point of the "Personal Computer" was that we would get to own our computers, and run our own local software without having to worry about timeshare, or using someone elses system. It seems as if they are wanting to undo the whole "Personal Computer" thing and move us back to using other peoples machines which they control.

    The worst thing is (maybe the second worst), is its the worst of both worlds. At least, a proper thin client is actually thin. But we are running "cloud computing" through a web browser, which is one of the most bloated, memory hungry applications you can run. So you have all the disadvantages of having to use someone else's system, with all the disadvantages of committing your own resources to run software.

    Software developers truly suck, for creating this terrible situation. Our computers are turning into "thin clients", with the thin client being the most complicated, biggest, bloatiest, client you can possible imagine. I have to use a web based accounting program, and its just awful. It's the SLOWEST application on my computer, yet isn't even really running on it. What a disaster computing has become.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 6 09:20:30 2022

    Ahhhhh Blackberry... That was my "company wedding ring" for a decade.

    Our organization used the Blackberry for many years before standardizing on the iPhone (gasp). I am the ONLY rebel in the 20k+ organization that has a company paid android. Not only do I deviate on the mobile phone, but on the mobile carrier. Everyone with company phones use Verizon and I use Sprint/T-Mobile.

    And yes, I do remember being told as a teenager that I should study Novell because they will be the future. I was told to forget about Banyan Vines
    or Lantastic... its gonna be Novell ALL the way to the millenium.
    Microsoft wasn't even mentioned in conversation.

    Novell was awesome back in the day. I was a CNE and used to administer large Novell networks back in the 3.12 days and even 4.10 days. I performed many large 3.12->4.10 migrations to Novell NDS back in the day. NDS was better but Novell never gained the application support and Microsoft ended killing them off. Especially when file/print services became less important and do many other ways to do it.

    I also remember administering some very large email systems using Groupwise. Some of the largest deployments on the east coast. One went to Lotus Notes (a pile of garbage, just because the new CEO loved IBM and hated Microsoft). Eventually that CEO was terminated and now they are using Exchange/Outlook.

    Several decades ago I transitioned to data networking and security, doing high end large scale network architecture and design. That space just keeps growing as everything connects to the network these days. It won't be long until my toilet will be able to count flushes per day and will be on my home LAN.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 6 09:26:28 2022

    I thought UL cert was sortof mandatory, like CSA cert for Canadian electronics?

    The BioMed/Clinical Engineering department would have more insight into that part of things. I don't think that it is always required for all hardware, but it seems to be generally frowned upon for that department to not use UL certified gear. I think there are different levels of certification, too.

    All I know is the main network gear used for the standard enterprise network is FAR more advanced, redundant, and higher end than the stuff that 3rd parties put in for the BioMed networks.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 6 09:31:35 2022

    Exactly. Thats what I suspect many people overlook about those versions of Windows.... NT4, 2000, XP. Those to me are "real Windows" that nothing
    else at the time could really compete with. Everything was so simple on
    them and even
    lots of complicated scenarios ultimately had a resolution.

    Yes, but unfortunately Microsoft has been creating far too many "Wizards" that now make things more complicated on the more recent operating systems than the previous versions. It takes more clicks to just edit your IP address on Windows these days. They need a global "disable all wizards" toggle!

    The moment it became Vista and 7 I just saw it as eye-candy and Microsoft marketing taking over the show... I don't need sticky notes or 3d-paint
    and certainly not Candy crush on the start menu of 10 Professional
    edition.

    They keep trying to be similar to Apple in that respect.

    Agreed, NTVDM is very choppy and OS/2 runs circles around it but unfortunately I'm not in a position to change for the reasons I mentioned before.

    If NTVDM could be replaced with OS2's DOS handler, it would be awesome. OS/2 was also the best multi-tasker for DOS. Very good at handling time slicing.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 6 09:36:55 2022

    I used to doubt the "Windows 365" conspiracy theory but I'm starting to believe it more. Google has that model down to a science.

    Google started in the cloud. Microsoft is dragging everyone, kicking and screaming to the cloud. It is all about the control and recurring revenue. The old model of buy hardware or an OS and keep that running for 15+ years is not acceptable to companies these days.

    I will find a way to run everything on Linux if all the future modern OS are tied to the cloud. More than half the population only really need a browser, so the Chrome OS is good enough for them.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 09:51:09 2022

    It's time to embrace the horror. The web Microsoft365 apps run pretty
    well and provide a much fuller experience than G Suite - and run well on Linux browsers.

    Prices are better than G suite, with a home use license you can get 5 Exchange mailboxes, 1TB per person, 5 app licenses, and it's $69/year.

    Fortunately, Google made the right decision to continue to allow the early adopters with custom domains on the legacy free tier. It is suprising to me that Microsoft pricing is lower than Google in that space.

    Before that decision was made, I was ready to ditch Google and host my own email again. I had everything ready to go - as there is no way I will pay business rates for personal/family access. For some unknown reason, Google doesn't offer a family plan at all for G Suite. Very odd and in my opinion, they could get more revenue if they did offer a family tier like Microsoft.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 6 09:53:49 2022

    Using eCS to manage a modern virtual environment - that rocks!

    eCS and Arca OS both run fine on ESXi 6.7. I have never found an operating system that doesn't run in a virtual environment.

    I did have issues with the original OS/2 3.0 Warp's HPFS driver crashing and wouldn't boot in the virtual environment, but that was it. Operating system wise, it worked - just had to change to a different file system type.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Warpslide on Sun Nov 6 09:57:17 2022

    We recently explored various Microsoft cloud offerings, one of them being something called "Universal Print". This moves your print server to the cloud and also lets you set permissions for your various locations as to
    who can print where, all kind of neat.

    Until you realize that if you loose internet access, you can't print. You could be sitting right next to a printer, on the same network, but if your location loses internet access, no printing for you.

    Exactly. Same goes for the Ring or any cloud based security device. No Internet, no nothing. I would much rather have a non-cloud device and a local DVR on a UPS. Not to mention no subscription costs.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Killer on Sun Nov 6 09:58:33 2022

    OS/2 is the most commonly used operating system for ATMs. Still is, but I have noticed more with Windows Embedded in there now.

    I remember hearing that before. Do you know if the ATMs are still using OS/2 or was that just back in the day?

    I know that most large banks were very big IBM customers. Pretty much all the tech in house was made by IBM in the big banks.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Tracker1 on Thu Nov 17 19:14:30 2022
    BY: Tracker1(21:3/149)


    |11T|09> |10I'm kind of the opposite end... I did hold on to my i7 4790K for about 5|07
    |11T|09> |07
    |11T|09> |10years... currently running an r9 5950X, RTX 3080 (10gb), 128gb ram, 2tb |07
    |11T|09> |10samsung 980 pro (linux drive), and hoping to see an r9 7950X3D in the |07
    |11T|09> |10spring, and will upgrade to that in march/april assuming it exists.|07
    I will need to get a new motherboard, 32gb of ram, move the processor and fan to teh new motherboard. 2tb ssd stick. and possibly a 1tb platter ssd drive with a 6700 XT fraogucs card.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3608
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Tracker1 on Thu Nov 17 19:24:43 2022
    Honestly there's aspects I like(d) about almost every OS I've ever used.

    I get a kick out of trying old OSes to see if there are things I like. I'm particularly fond of AmigaOS. There are several things in AmigaOS that I enjoy that I haven't seen implemented elsewhere. It was truly before its time, considering all that was possible with it so long ago.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From acn@21:3/127.1 to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 18 11:51:00 2022
    Am 17.11.22 schrieb Tracker1@21:3/149 in FSX_GEN:

    Hallo Tracker1,

    Used to work OS/2 support for iomega...

    Oh, nice :) I'm still playing around with Zip drives, at the moment
    I'm using a SCSI one on my Amiga 1200.
    But my OS/2 PC also has an internal one (IDE version from NEC).
    It has been a while since the last time I turned it on, but it did
    work, also when running OS/2 :)

    of course I remember very little, about the only thing I really
    didn't like about OS/2 was that everything you wanted to do outside
    run windows compat software was costly and that the configuration
    file(s) were beyond massive.

    Yep, that's true...

    [...]
    Honestly there's aspects I like(d) about almost every OS I've ever used.

    That's true, even Windows has some nice aspects, although it's harder
    to remember which ones it are than on other OSes :)

    Regards,
    Anna

    --- OpenXP 5.0.56
    * Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Fri Nov 18 09:38:08 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Tracker1 on Thu Nov 17 2022 07:24 pm

    I get a kick out of trying old OSes to see if there are things I like. I'm particularly fond of AmigaOS. There are several things in AmigaOS that I enjoy that I haven't seen implemented elsewhere. It was truly before its time, considering all that was possible with it so long ago.

    Yeah, in the mid-late 90s, I used to like trying different operating systems, mainly for x86 PCs, since that's what I had. At one point, I had a multi-boot setup on my PC with Windows 9x, OS/2, and Linux. Now I think it's funny to think that was on a 4.5GB hard drive, which is small by today's standards..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 18 17:40:19 2022
    On 18 Nov 22 09:38:08, Nightfox said the following to Esc:

    Yeah, in the mid-late 90s, I used to like trying different operating systems mainly for x86 PCs, since that's what I had. At one point, I had a multi-bo setup on my PC with Windows 9x, OS/2, and Linux. Now I think it's funny to think that was on a 4.5GB hard drive, which is small by today's standards..

    I thought a 20 megabyte hard drive for my Tandy was "big" at the time...

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 18 17:44:42 2022
    On 17 Nov 22 16:55:14, Tracker1 said the following to Acn:

    I switched back and forth a lot in the late 90's, with Windows 2000 (not ME), I pretty much didn't look back... I'm running Linux for my personal

    I know I blabbed about this a few times but I was the exact same... Windows 2000 just "sold" me on how good it was at the time.

    I could set up a basic VPN and RDP into my system from anywhere, do proper backups to a tape drive because it had Ntbackup built-in. These things were outrageously expensive for OS/2 or impossible, or just halfassed.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 18 15:12:17 2022
    Yeah, in the mid-late 90s, I used to like trying different operating systems, mainly for x86 PCs, since that's what I had. At one point, I
    had a multi-boot setup on my PC with Windows 9x, OS/2, and Linux. Now I think it's funny to think that was on a 4.5GB hard drive, which is small by today's standards..

    Ha, that's nuts. Yeah. I remember back when having a 300mb spare HD was like...endless amounts of storage that I could never fathom of filling up.

    Another interesting thing to think about here is RAM. It's amazing to think how much optimization was done to make things work with the amount of memory we had access to.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Fri Nov 18 16:20:34 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Fri Nov 18 2022 03:12 pm

    Now I think it's funny to think that was on a 4.5GB hard drive,
    which is small by today's standards..

    Ha, that's nuts. Yeah. I remember back when having a 300mb spare HD was like...endless amounts of storage that I could never fathom of filling up.

    That's true.. When buying a larger hard drive, I always felt like it would be hard to fill it all up, but it seems it always gets filled up eventually.

    Another interesting thing to think about here is RAM. It's amazing to think how much optimization was done to make things work with the amount of memory we had access to.

    That's true too. It's interesting to learn what programmers did in the 80s with so little RAM available on computers & similar devices back then. And these days, when computers could have 32GB, 64GB, or more RAM (and it's a lot less expensive than it used to be), we don't need to worry so much about that anymore.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Fri Nov 18 19:29:59 2022

    I thought a 20 megabyte hard drive for my Tandy was "big" at the time...

    I thought having an external 3.5" drive for my Apple //c was "big" back in the early 80s. After running my BBS on just (2) 5 1/4 floppy drives, that was a huge gain in storage.

    I would have never thought back then that I'd be sitting here now with well over 100TB, and gone from a 300 baud modem to 1Gbps fiber.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 18 19:41:13 2022
    On 18 Nov 22 19:29:59, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    I would have never thought back then that I'd be sitting here now with well over 100TB, and gone from a 300 baud modem to 1Gbps fiber.

    Ha! I'm not quite there yet but getting there!

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to Atreyu on Sat Nov 19 19:54:00 2022
    I thought a 20 megabyte hard drive for my Tandy was "big" at the time...

    First HD I had was with the 286 I got for the BBS, a 40Mb job. It seemed
    huge at the time, and being DOS 3.3 it was a 30 and 10Mb partition setup.
    Prior to this I'd only ever had 140k or 800k floppies.

    It didn't really take to long before it didn't seem to large any more though, back then the file areas grew exponentially. While I was really only loading Apple II stuff, the handbrake was all for having DOS stuff too. Ended up with the floppy holding file areas briefly.

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Sat Nov 19 07:18:36 2022

    Ha! I'm not quite there yet but getting there!

    I should be receiving the rest of my storage order today. I couldn't resist the 14TB Western Digital enterprise Ultrastor drives (which are really the legacy HGST drives) for $140 each. I bought all (9) of the ones listed.

    I still have (8) 6TB drives, around (40) 3TB drives, and (50) or so 2TB drives. The 2TB drives are sitting in several very heavy boxes collecting dust at the moment.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Spectre on Sat Nov 19 07:20:30 2022

    First HD I had was with the 286 I got for the BBS, a 40Mb job. It seemed huge at the time, and being DOS 3.3 it was a 30 and 10Mb partition setup. Prior to this I'd only ever had 140k or 800k floppies.

    Exactly the same for me, too. My first hard drive was when I bought my 286-12 system after selling all my Apple // stuff. It has 2MB of RAM (which was a ton back then), and my first hard drive which was a full height 40MB drive (Seagate).

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 18 06:29:00 2022
    Tracker1 wrote to boraxman <=-

    I'm kind of the opposite end... I did hold on to my i7 4790K for about
    5 years... currently running an r9 5950X, RTX 3080 (10gb), 128gb ram,
    2tb samsung 980 pro (linux drive), and hoping to see an r9 7950X3D in
    the spring, and will upgrade to that in march/april assuming it exists.

    I'm pretty trailing edge - I just bought a system with an i7 4790 earlier
    this year, replacing a 10 year-old Core2 Duo that I'd upgraded to a Core2
    Quad a few years before.


    ... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here...
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Esc on Sat Nov 19 11:42:33 2022
    BY: esc(21:4/173)


    |11e|09> |10I get a kick out of trying old OSes to see if there are things I like.|07
    |11e|09> |10I'm particularly fond of AmigaOS. There are several things in AmigaOS|07
    |11e|09> |10that I enjoy that I haven't seen implemented elsewhere. It was truly|07
    |11e|09> |10before its time, considering all that was possible with it so long ago.|07
    Does that mean we can run AmigaOS with VirtualBox?


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3608
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Spectre on Sun Nov 20 09:06:42 2022
    On 19 Nov 2022 at 07:54p, Spectre pondered and said...

    I thought a 20 megabyte hard drive for my Tandy was "big" at the time

    First HD I had was with the 286 I got for the BBS, a 40Mb job. It seemed huge at the time, and being DOS 3.3 it was a 30 and 10Mb partition setup. Prior to this I'd only ever had 140k or 800k floppies.

    I think my first purchased PC had a whopping 20 megabyte HDD in it, and I recall spending a lot of coin on it at the time. I also remember being focused on trying to get the latest and greatest modem for the computer so that I could call out (and allow others to call my Renegade BBS) at speed.

    The fun was listening to the incoming calls and figuring out who had faster modems at the time.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Weatherman on Sun Nov 20 09:12:08 2022
    On 19 Nov 2022 at 07:20a, Weatherman pondered and said...

    Exactly the same for me, too. My first hard drive was when I bought my 286-12 system after selling all my Apple // stuff. It has 2MB of RAM (which was a ton back then), and my first hard drive which was a full height 40MB drive (Seagate).

    I'm trying to recall the specs of my earlier computers, it was either a 386 or perhaps a 486 dx system... made by a crowd now long gone in New Zealand.. I think they were called PC General..... then the next system was by PC Direct.... New Zealand computer companies had such imaginative names heh :)

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Utopian Galt on Sat Nov 19 17:55:56 2022
    Does that mean we can run AmigaOS with VirtualBox?

    Not exactly, but there are plenty of great emulators out there - WinUAE if you use Windows, FS-UAE for linux/macos.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Avon on Sun Nov 20 08:51:07 2022

    I'm trying to recall the specs of my earlier computers, it was either a
    386 or perhaps a 486 dx system... made by a crowd now long gone in New Zealand.. I think they were called PC General..... then the next system
    was by PC Direct.... New Zealand computer companies had such imaginative names heh :)

    I still have pictures somewhere of the monster sized 286-12 tower case that I used back then. It was as tall as my desk when sitting on the floor. It even had the "turbo" button on it.

    I used the same case for many years as I upgraded/swapped motherboards to several different 386 systems, then to 486, then to pentium, etc. Since the case was so large, I later used it as my data server case.

    These days my data server and vmware servers are all 4U Supermicro systems. I love the supermicro systems. They are a data hoarder's dream platform.

    Speaking of which, I have (9) 14TB drives sitting on my desk next to me right now. Once I get that new array in place, it will take over a week to copy all the data.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Atreyu on Sat Nov 19 15:42:00 2022
    Atreyu wrote to Tracker1 <=-

    I could set up a basic VPN and RDP into my system from anywhere, do
    proper backups to a tape drive because it had Ntbackup built-in. These things were outrageously expensive for OS/2 or impossible, or just halfassed.

    I bought Famatech's remote administrator program when I was administering Windows NT4 and 2000 servers, and still use it to this day on the BBS.

    I still try to block out those days of swapping DDS and DLT tapes by hand. :)



    ... What mistakes did you make last time?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Weatherman on Sat Nov 19 15:46:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Atreyu <=-

    I would have never thought back then that I'd be sitting here now with well over 100TB, and gone from a 300 baud modem to 1Gbps fiber.

    The first incarnation of realitycheckBBS had 2 30 mb drives and 2 mb of RAM. Hard to fathom that it did mostly what I'm doing now on a VM with 2 cores, 3 GB of RAM and 100 GB of disk. Of course it would fill up the disk during a Fido mail run and crap itself, but what the heck...

    I used to have to unpack Fido mail packets into separate directories per echomail area, with *.msg files for each message, then import those into the message base. Took up twice the amount of disk space for what I'd import.




    ... What mistakes did you make last time?
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Roon@21:4/148 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 20 21:05:49 2022
    Hello Atreyu,

    18 Nov 22 17:44, you wrote to Tracker1:

    On 17 Nov 22 16:55:14, Tracker1 said the following to Acn:

    I switched back and forth a lot in the late 90's, with Windows 2000
    (not ME), I pretty much didn't look back... I'm running Linux for
    my personal

    I know I blabbed about this a few times but I was the exact same...
    Windows 2000 just "sold" me on how good it was at the time.

    I could set up a basic VPN and RDP into my system from anywhere, do
    proper backups to a tape drive because it had Ntbackup built-in. These things were outrageously expensive for OS/2 or impossible, or just halfassed.

    do you run OS/2 or ArcaOS?
    what r u using 4 rdp under os/2?

    Regards,
    --
    dp

    telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

    ... 10:57pm up 2 days, 17:20:24, load: 84 processes, 290 threads.
    --- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
    * Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 21 08:55:22 2022
    On 20 Nov 2022 at 08:51a, Weatherman pondered and said...

    Speaking of which, I have (9) 14TB drives sitting on my desk next to me right now. Once I get that new array in place, it will take over a week to copy all the data.

    Now that is a lot of data :)

    I noted in recent days an international standards group has met to create new names for even larger amounts of data... can't recall the new names but it covers stuff like ten to the power of twenty six etc..

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Roon on Sun Nov 20 15:05:36 2022
    On 20 Nov 22 21:05:49, Roon said the following to Atreyu:

    do you run OS/2 or ArcaOS?

    Neither, I used to run OS2

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Poindexter Fortran on Sun Nov 20 19:25:50 2022

    The first incarnation of realitycheckBBS had 2 30 mb drives and 2 mb of RAM. Hard to fathom that it did mostly what I'm doing now on a VM with 2 cores, 3 GB of RAM and 100 GB of disk. Of course it would fill up the
    disk during a Fido mail run and crap itself, but what the heck...

    I used to have to unpack Fido mail packets into separate directories per echomail area, with *.msg files for each message, then import those into the message base. Took up twice the amount of disk space for what I'd import.

    In my early sysop BBS days, I had a total of (5) message areas and only 20 messages each. Anything more would fill up the (2) 5 1/4 floppies.

    Once I went from Apple to PC and ran an early version of WWIV, I had more storage and a hard drive. Joining WWIVnet back in the late 80s, I had plenty of storage for all the message areas. I was not in any FTN/Fido network back then and there was no support for it in WWIV.

    It wasn't until around the early-mid 90s when there were programs created to allow FTN networks to work with WWIV. I was a very early adopter of that with WWIVTOSS (and still use it today).

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Avon on Sun Nov 20 19:41:00 2022

    Speaking of which, I have (9) 14TB drives sitting on my desk next to
    me We> right now. Once I get that new array in place, it will take over a week We> to copy all the data.

    Now that is a lot of data :)

    My plan is to eventually create a (10) drive RAID5 array of 14TB drives + keep an extra as a on-hand spare. For now, I'll start with the 98TB usable and keep one for spare, and buy more when I see good pricing.

    I should be able to remove all my 3TB drives and keep them for spares for my other servers that still use them.

    Once I get all this in place, I should have around 200TB of running storage on the (3) servers, plus have plenty of spare drives for swapping.

    I am my own cloud storage provider. :)

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to Atreyu on Sun Nov 20 20:17:52 2022
    On 11/18/22 10:44, Atreyu wrote:

    I know I blabbed about this a few times but I was the exact same...
    Windows 2000 just "sold" me on how good it was at the time.

    I could set up a basic VPN and RDP into my system from anywhere, do
    proper backups to a tape drive because it had Ntbackup built-in.
    These things were outrageously expensive for OS/2 or impossible, or
    just halfassed.

    Got even better with Litestep, remember a pretty custom UI, that really
    just felt exactly how I wanted... using a lightly customized Ubuntu
    Budgie setup currently. I remember Windows 2000 pretty fondly, didn't
    play games on it... kept a dual boot of win98se for a long while to play
    games (until XP SP3, when I finally jumped to XP)... since then played
    with Linux... Really like WSL2 in Win10+, but with Win11, just irritated
    me a bit too much... Linux does most of what I need now, and I don't
    game too much, so sticking to what works native or via steam is okay
    with me.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Tracker1@21:3/149 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 20 20:26:50 2022
    On 11/19/22 16:42, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

    I bought Famatech's remote administrator program when I was administering Windows NT4 and 2000 servers, and still use it to this day on the BBS.

    I still try to block out those days of swapping DDS and DLT tapes by hand.
    :)
    Ran recovery ops for a mid sized company for a while in the later 90s...
    man even with a multi-tape changing backup system, it's still nasty
    AF... I don't recall the tech, but figured out how to do snapshotting
    (NT4 era) on the main storage server (EMC, iirc) and that was far easier
    99% of the time than dealing with the often borked backups.
    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 21 07:25:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Avon <=-

    My plan is to eventually create a (10) drive RAID5 array of 14TB
    drives + keep an extra as a on-hand spare. For now, I'll start
    with the 98TB usable and keep one for spare, and buy more when I
    see good pricing.

    I should be able to remove all my 3TB drives and keep them for
    spares for my other servers that still use them.

    Once I get all this in place, I should have around 200TB of
    running storage on the (3) servers, plus have plenty of spare
    drives for swapping.

    I am my own cloud storage provider. :)

    What do you use all this storage space for? Is this a business thing,
    or just for home use?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Tracker1 on Mon Nov 21 08:12:46 2022
    On 20 Nov 22 20:26:50, Tracker1 said the following to Poindexter Fortran:

    Ran recovery ops for a mid sized company for a while in the later 90s... man even with a multi-tape changing backup system, it's still nasty
    AF... I don't recall the tech, but figured out how to do snapshotting
    (NT4 era) on the main storage server (EMC, iirc) and that was far easier 99% of the time than dealing with the often borked backups.

    You're probably referring to Volume Snapshot or image-based backups, which is what I use here today.

    Reinstalling Windows (or any OS) is just simply out of the question and not something I've had to do for a long time.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Tracker1 on Mon Nov 21 08:21:48 2022
    On 20 Nov 22 20:17:52, Tracker1 said the following to Atreyu:

    Got even better with Litestep, remember a pretty custom UI, that really just felt exactly how I wanted... using a lightly customized Ubuntu
    Budgie setup currently. I remember Windows 2000 pretty fondly, didn't
    play games on it... kept a dual boot of win98se for a long while to play games (until XP SP3, when I finally jumped to XP)... since then played
    with Linux... Really like WSL2 in Win10+, but with Win11, just irritated
    me a bit too much... Linux does most of what I need now, and I don't
    game too much, so sticking to what works native or via steam is okay
    with me.

    I can't stand the lack of taskbar-labels in Windows 11... and I refuse to install some buggy halfassed shareware crap to "fix it". I often have many windows open at once on a workstation with six monitors. Breaking the taskbar functionality was unacceptable.

    I actually thought XP and Server 2003 were the "best" that M$ was ever to crank out. Everything beyond that just got to be eye-candy or trying to do everything except act like an OS. Windows 10 talks to me as if we're friends and it wants to do things on its terms, not mine. Candy Crush and Xbox on the start menu of a professional-grade OS put an end to my love for windows.

    I'm not a gamer... well, more of a retro-gamer if and when I have the time and thats either MS-DOS games or my old NES and Genesis consoles. I bought one
    of those new multi-carts for both that have a rediculous amount of memory and pretty much every game in existance for them.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Tracker1 on Mon Nov 21 08:44:46 2022

    Ran recovery ops for a mid sized company for a while in the later 90s...
    man even with a multi-tape changing backup system, it's still nasty
    AF... I don't recall the tech, but figured out how to do snapshotting
    (NT4 era) on the main storage server (EMC, iirc) and that was far easier
    99% of the time than dealing with the often borked backups.

    I remember back in the 90s using Compaq DAT tape autoloaders for enterprise backups for all the Netware servers. Once the backups exceeded the amount of tapes in the DAT autoloaders, we moved on to Compaq DLT tape drives.

    These days we have finally moved away from tapes. Everything is disk snapshots or some type of disk based backup.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Mon Nov 21 08:50:55 2022

    What do you use all this storage space for? Is this a business thing,
    or just for home use?

    It is for home use, but I do run several Internet based systems for various thing. I also use it the very same way that Google Photos works, for photo/video backups for our phones. I just have an app on our phones that auto SFTPs new files in photo/video directories to my server.

    So I'm basically my own cloud. I also am a data hoarder, so I download tons of content. Lots of old TV shows and things like that.

    Some of the storage is for disk backups of all my server VMs, physical PCs, etc, too. And I keep 31 backups of each (one month worth), just to be safe.

    The backups use almost 24TB by itself. I also have weeks for of DVR data for my security cameras. Video takes up lots of storage.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Mon Nov 21 08:54:15 2022

    I can't stand the lack of taskbar-labels in Windows 11... and I refuse to install some buggy halfassed shareware crap to "fix it". I often have many windows open at once on a workstation with six monitors. Breaking the taskbar functionality was unacceptable.

    I actually thought XP and Server 2003 were the "best" that M$ was ever to crank out. Everything beyond that just got to be eye-candy or trying to do

    I agree that Windows XP and Server 2003 had the best interface. Windows 11 reminds me of Windows 8, where so many people hated the taskbar and menu that loads of people ran a shareware program to fix it.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Atreyu@21:1/176 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 21 10:19:11 2022
    On 21 Nov 22 08:54:15, Weatherman said the following to Atreyu:

    I agree that Windows XP and Server 2003 had the best interface. Windows 11 reminds me of Windows 8, where so many people hated the taskbar and menu tha loads of people ran a shareware program to fix it.

    It wasn't just the interface that was good in XP/2003, it was also the OS largely staying the F out of my way and letting me focus on programs.

    In this household computers work for me and not the other way around. And nobody nags me to do anything. I hate being nagged. Windows 10 and 11 always nag about something. Worse than the exwife. OS updates in particular. Theres ALWAYS some stupid OS update or Dot-net fiasco to the tune of 500mb~2gb worth of downloading. At least once or twice a month. Unacceptable.

    And its 2022 and even with these lovely massive updates, the GUI is still horribly broken when you go to rename a file on an SMB share and something happens to the network connection; the entire explorer process crashes and
    any other related operations crash. No warning, no explanation, nothing, not even an "unknown error" logged anywhere.

    Linux is no better with some of this stuff... I just wish there was a modern OS that would act like an OS, talk like an OS and stop looking cute or trying to be my buddy. And doesn't need constant updates. Talks like a computer and just runs my bloody programs.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (21:1/176)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Mon Nov 21 09:43:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    What do you use all this storage space for? Is this a business thing,
    or just for home use?

    It is for home use, but I do run several Internet based systems
    for various thing. I also use it the very same way that Google
    Photos works, for photo/video backups for our phones. I just
    have an app on our phones that auto SFTPs new files in
    photo/video directories to my server.

    So I'm basically my own cloud. I also am a data hoarder, so I
    download tons of content. Lots of old TV shows and things like
    that.

    Some of the storage is for disk backups of all my server VMs,
    physical PCs, etc, too. And I keep 31 backups of each (one month
    worth), just to be safe.

    The backups use almost 24TB by itself. I also have weeks for of
    DVR data for my security cameras. Video takes up lots of
    storage.

    Wow, very cool. Is the auto-SFTP app on the phone a custom/private
    thing, or is it a publicly available app? I might be interested in
    trying that.


    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Tracker1 on Mon Nov 21 08:00:00 2022
    Tracker1 wrote to Atreyu <=-

    Got even better with Litestep, remember a pretty custom UI, that really just felt exactly how I wanted...

    I loved Litestep when I was running single-core laptops and trying to save
    as many resources as possible. Thought about running it again in an XP VM
    I've got, don't know how it would do under Windows 10.


    ... "He who is without oil, shall cast the first rod."-Compressions 8.7:1.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Spectre@21:3/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 22 18:39:00 2022
    I still try to block out those days of swapping DDS and DLT tapes by hand.

    Was it really that bad? Guess it depends on how many tapes you're talking. I always found them better than sliced bread so long as you had SCSI. A
    business I used to work for was bought out by a much larger company, must at least 25 years back now.. they insisted on backups nightly, and got someone
    to install a DAT drive, none of the office staff new how to drive it though,
    so they were doing one backup per tape... :) Probably would've been able to fit a weeks worth on a single tape.

    Spec


    *** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
    --- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
    * Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Atreyu on Tue Nov 22 08:05:13 2022

    In this household computers work for me and not the other way around. And nobody nags me to do anything. I hate being nagged. Windows 10 and 11
    always nag about something. Worse than the exwife. OS updates in
    particular. Theres ALWAYS some stupid OS update or Dot-net fiasco to the tune of 500mb~2gb worth of downloading. At least once or twice a month. Unacceptable.

    The .NET are the worst - taking loads of time for updates. When you have thousands of servers to patch, this is a constant nightmare. That is why so many platforms have moved away from Windows Server and created custom "appliances". The OS is just something to boot up the application.

    And its 2022 and even with these lovely massive updates, the GUI is still horribly broken when you go to rename a file on an SMB share and something happens to the network connection; the entire explorer process crashes and any other related operations crash. No warning, no explanation, nothing,
    not even an "unknown error" logged anywhere.

    I see the same thing on Windows 10 from time to time. Probably some bug in explorer where it crashes and reloads the desktop.

    Linux is no better with some of this stuff... I just wish there was a
    modern OS that would act like an OS, talk like an OS and stop looking cute or trying
    to be my buddy. And doesn't need constant updates. Talks like a computer
    and just runs my bloody programs.

    Just like how Apple took hold of the phone market, the vast majority of people are not technical. They just want some fancy looking pretty thing that has flashy icons and loves to charge their credit card everytime they click anything.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Gamgee on Tue Nov 22 08:07:54 2022

    Wow, very cool. Is the auto-SFTP app on the phone a custom/private
    thing, or is it a publicly available app? I might be interested in
    trying that.

    Yes, it is called FolderSync (for android). I can sync folders via SFTP from phones to directories on my server at home. No need for Google photos or any other cloud system.

    I would much rather control my own data, anyway.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Weatherman on Tue Nov 22 07:31:00 2022
    Weatherman wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Wow, very cool. Is the auto-SFTP app on the phone a custom/private
    thing, or is it a publicly available app? I might be interested in
    trying that.

    Yes, it is called FolderSync (for android). I can sync folders
    via SFTP from phones to directories on my server at home. No
    need for Google photos or any other cloud system.

    Thanks. I see similar apps available for iOS, gonna look into this.

    I would much rather control my own data, anyway.

    Me too.


    ... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Weatherman on Fri Nov 25 16:47:08 2022
    BY: Weatherman(21:1/132)


    |11W|09> |10It wasn't until around the early-mid 90s when there were programs|07
    |11W|09> |10created to allow FTN networks to work with WWIV. I was a very early|07
    |11W|09> |10adopter of that with WWIVTOSS (and still use it today).|07
    I was one of the diehards who was one of the first few people to join othernets in other parts of the world. I had like 10 othernets thanks to internet transport.

    But I am glad technology is opening up to all of us.

    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3608
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Weatherman@21:1/132 to Utopian Galt on Sat Nov 26 07:43:12 2022

    I was a very early|07 |11W|09> |10adopter of that with WWIVTOSS (and
    still use it today).|07 I was one of the diehards who was one of the
    first few people to join othernets in other parts of the world. I had
    like 10 othernets thanks to internet transport.

    But I am glad technology is opening up to all of us.

    Same with me. I was one of the very early WWIV systems that had FTN, Usenet, Internet based WWIVnet transfers, network file transfers (via Filenet), etc. Lots of good times working with some really smart people over the years. Morgul, Frank Reid, and Rushfan to name a few.

    - Mark
    ÿÿÿ
    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (21:1/132.0)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Avon on Fri Dec 9 11:58:04 2022
    I haven't used Win 11 as yet but my hunch is I may ride it out until the next OS version is released then try to move to that.. but time will
    tell I guess.

    I think Win 11 is only slightly different from Win 10. I would have to go looking to find differences that matter.

    So it seems reasonable to me for people to skip the version. I'm really only running it because I got new computers this year, and it seemed more reasonable to have systems that were running Win 11 immediately.

    Pondering chocolate is far more fun :)

    It _is_.

    I've gotten a variety of chocolate, and will eat some while typing this message, though I think the interesting food item I've been doing is my wine and gin advent calendars.

    It's neat to try a couple new things each day, write down a short review, take some pictures, etc.

    Eventually I'll get the info into my wine wiki, which, while it's more work than I'd like, is a part of the fun of trying out various alcohols.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Fri Dec 9 07:51:00 2022
    Adept wrote to Avon <=-

    So it seems reasonable to me for people to skip the version. I'm really only running it because I got new computers this year, and it seemed
    more reasonable to have systems that were running Win 11 immediately.

    Windows 10 runs fine here, and Windows 11 won't run because this system doesn't have a TPM chip. It's a home model, I'm guessing lots of people will be unable to upgrade, and in 2025 they'll have to push the EOL date out further.

    I don't think the whole Windows-Industrial complex works the way it used to, where a new Windows version would drive hardware purchases, which would run the newer versions of Windows and Office better.


    ... Repetition is a form of change
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Poindexter Fortran on Fri Dec 9 11:29:08 2022
    BY: poindexter FORTRAN(21:4/122)


    |11pF|09> |10doesn't have a TPM chip. It's a home model, I'm guessing lots of people|07
    |11pF|09> |10will |07
    |11pF|09> |10be unable to upgrade, and in 2025 they'll have to push the EOL date out |07
    its enviromentally irresposible what they did. Such as making ryzen 1st generation not supported. My motherboard has the proper tpm chip.

    I would of just added 1 more Intel chip to be supported the 7th gen, and the ryzen 1st gen at least.

    |11pF|09> |10further.|07
    |11pF|09> |07
    |11pF|09> |10I don't think the whole Windows-Industrial complex works the way it used|07
    They should just make a better operating system. Maybe it was a conspiracy to drive new hardware sales. I might have to upgrade my desktop to have a PCI 4.0 bus at the minimum.

    I will likely wait another six months if I want to convert the chip off my motherboard to a 550 AMD mb, put 32gb of 3600 ddr4 ram and a 2tb m2 stick with a 1tb ssd regular drive and I will be content with that.
    I currently have a ryzen 5700x.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Fri Dec 9 16:01:13 2022
    I've gotten a variety of chocolate, and will eat some while typing this message, though I think the interesting food item I've been doing is my wine and gin advent calendars.

    We recently decided to make our own chocolates after stumbling across a YouTube video. We had a blast - we borrowed a tempering machine from a friend and bought some molds from Amazon and we made our own peanut butter cups, genaches, sea salt caramels...it was a ton of fun. A ton of work, too!

    But I really grew to respect how much effort it takes to temper chocolate, it's a labor of love. I also now realize how much of a ripoff boxes of chocolates are. And being able to control the light/dark mix, filling, etc., was really cool. I highly recommend trying this some time.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 9 16:08:23 2022
    Windows 10 runs fine here, and Windows 11 won't run because this system doesn't have a TPM chip. It's a home model, I'm guessing lots of people will be unable to upgrade, and in 2025 they'll have to push the EOL
    date out further.

    I struggle to figure out the killer feature Windows is bringing to the table nowadays in most use cases. Now that computers are front-ends for the internet, there don't appear to be many interesting differentiators. I think the following are probably the core remaining major use cases:
    - Gaming (linux is coming along but is still a ways off and may never catch up) - Office (though doing everything in the cloud is rendering this redundant)
    - Ease/compatibility (my 67 year old father would have no idea how to install and use linux on his own)
    - Supported applications (everything basically works in Windows)

    Aside from that, I think people probably use Windows because it's a known quantity and has basic understood principles at this point simply due to the history of its use.

    This isn't to bash on Windows...I actually loved WSL when it came out and tried /hard/ to make a proper Windows dev environment. But as I always do, aside from my main gaming rig, I found my way back to linux after a bit. And I even tried Windows 11 and really wanted to like it. Alas it wasn't meant to be.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Utopian Galt on Fri Dec 9 16:13:04 2022
    They should just make a better operating system. Maybe it was a
    conspiracy to drive new hardware sales. I might have to upgrade my
    desktop to have a PCI 4.0 bus at the minimum.

    You know, this reminds me...I actually for the most part use middle of the road hardware for my daily computing needs, throw linux on it, call it a day...but I spend a small fortune building vintage DOS and Windows 98 machines lol. Those were the real days of meaningful innovation...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Adept on Sat Dec 10 13:32:24 2022
    On 09 Dec 2022 at 11:58a, Adept pondered and said...

    So it seems reasonable to me for people to skip the version. I'm really only running it because I got new computers this year, and it seemed
    more reasonable to have systems that were running Win 11 immediately.

    I'd love a new computer but have to win the lotto first :)

    yeah I expect I'll need to move some systems across to Win 10 or 11 sooner than later... but while the lights keep blinkty blinking I'm happy - heh.

    Pondering chocolate is far more fun :)

    It _is_.

    I've gotten a variety of chocolate, and will eat some while typing this message, though I think the interesting food item I've been doing is my wine and gin advent calendars.
    It's neat to try a couple new things each day, write down a short
    review, take some pictures, etc.
    Eventually I'll get the info into my wine wiki, which, while it's more work than I'd like, is a part of the fun of trying out various alcohols.


    Ooo... sounds good. For me the challenge would be not scoffing it all before I formed a good review/view else it would all just be "yum"

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Fri Dec 9 22:08:08 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 09 2022 04:08 pm

    Now that computers are front-ends for
    the internet, there don't appear to be many interesting differentiators. I

    I don't think I necessarily agree with that, nor do I think computers should just be front-ends for the internet. Not everything is well suited to run as a web/internet based app. Photo and video processing, software development, and other number-crunching tasks lend themselves to having a powerful computer at home that you can use for those kinds of things. Video games is another example.

    Sometimes it seems like some software companies want us to use web apps though, as they can easily charge a subscription fee. In some ways it seems like a step backwards - I remember hearing about people using dumb terminals connected to powerful central mainframe computers in the 60s and 70s.. As computers became smaller, more affordable, and more powerful, it became much easier to have a fairly powerful computer at home that could run software locally, and generally that was seen as a good thing.

    I struggle to figure out the killer feature Windows is bringing to the table nowadays in most use cases.

    Yeah, I'm not sure any particular computer OS has any killer feature these days. As you said though, Windows just being a known thing means that pretty much all types of software are made for Windows (particularly gaming).

    I've seen certain programs that some people just seem to love which are only made for one platform (i.e. Mac-only versions of certain programs), but I don't think there's any limiting factor where it would really need to be platform-specific.

    Oddly, I've noticed that a large percentage of people who do photo & video editing and making music (content creators) still seem to prefer Mac, and a lot of web developers seem to like working on a Mac too. I've heard that music software for Mac in general tends to "just work" and have low latency, but (in my limited experience) I haven't seen much problem with latency with Windows music software either.. The web devleopment connection with Mac is one thing I don't quite understand though.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Avon on Fri Dec 9 22:13:26 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: Avon to Adept on Sat Dec 10 2022 01:32 pm

    yeah I expect I'll need to move some systems across to Win 10 or 11 sooner than later... but while the lights keep blinkty blinking I'm happy - heh.

    When is "sooner than later"? :P
    Sooner than a time that would be later than what?

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Sat Dec 10 03:23:38 2022
    I don't think I necessarily agree with that, nor do I think computers should just be front-ends for the internet. Not everything is well
    suited to run as a web/internet based app. Photo and video processing, software development, and other number-crunching tasks lend themselves
    to having a powerful computer at home that you can use for those kinds
    of things. Video games is another example.

    Yeah, but if you consider the number of people that use computers, the actual number of people that do any real gaming, development, photoshop, etc., is a pretty small chunk. The majority of people use computers rather casually, in which case computers basically are frontends for the internet.

    Sometimes it seems like some software companies want us to use web apps though, as they can easily charge a subscription fee. In some ways it seems like a step backwards - I remember hearing about people using dumb terminals connected to powerful central mainframe computers in the 60s
    and 70s.. As computers became smaller, more affordable, and more powerful, it became much easier to have a fairly powerful computer at
    home that could run software locally, and generally that was seen as a good thing.

    This is true, but it's also much easier to maintain. Build a web app, and then anyone with a browser can basically use it. You don't need to deal with customers downloading and installing things, really you can just offload all that burden onto the web browser itself. At the end of the day it lowers the burden significantly for development.

    Yeah, I'm not sure any particular computer OS has any killer feature
    these days. As you said though, Windows just being a known thing means that pretty much all types of software are made for Windows
    (particularly gaming).

    Agree. Honestly for casual web browsing and basic usage, essentially when I'm not doing dev work for my job or BBS stuff or gaming, I tend to use my iPad. It's just easier and gets out of the way.

    I've seen certain programs that some people just seem to love which are only made for one platform (i.e. Mac-only versions of certain programs), but I don't think there's any limiting factor where it would really need to be platform-specific.

    Agree, however I am sympathetic to game companies refusing to release for linux...it's a pain in the ass building something closed source and trying to support linux as a platform for your software, due to the bespoke nature of what 'linux' means for basically every type of user.

    Oddly, I've noticed that a large percentage of people who do photo &
    video editing and making music (content creators) still seem to prefer Mac, and a lot of web developers seem to like working on a Mac too.
    I've heard that music software for Mac in general tends to "just work"
    and have low latency, but (in my limited experience) I haven't seen much problem with latency with Windows music software either.. The web devleopment connection with Mac is one thing I don't quite understand though.

    I prefer doing web dev on a Mac, I also prefer photo editing and making music on a Mac. Doing any kind of dev work in Windows has always been a bit of a nightmare for me. I use a Mac for doing dev stuff at work, but it's also an amazing personal computer. I prefer it infinitely over Windows.

    For personal stuff, I use linux, unless I want to play a modern game (Windows) or I want to do some creative type things (Mac).

    To each their own *shrug*

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Sat Dec 10 10:46:48 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Sat Dec 10 2022 03:23 am

    affordable, and more powerful, it became much easier to have a
    fairly powerful computer at home that could run software locally,
    and generally that was seen as a good thing.

    This is true, but it's also much easier to maintain. Build a web app, and then anyone with a browser can basically use it. You don't need to deal with customers downloading and installing things, really you can just offload all that burden onto the web browser itself. At the end of the day it lowers the burden significantly for development.

    Web development has its own issues though. You have to test it in multiple web browsers (and perhaps multiple versions of multiple web browsers). And for years, IE was the bane of web development as it had its own bugs and special cases you had to allow for. It seems like a lot of hassle to have to test for multiple browsers & such.

    I'm not doing dev work for my job or BBS stuff or gaming, I tend to use my iPad. It's just easier and gets out of the way.

    What do you mean by "gets out of the way"?

    Agree, however I am sympathetic to game companies refusing to release for linux...it's a pain in the ass building something closed source and trying to support linux as a platform for your software, due to the bespoke nature of what 'linux' means for basically every type of user.

    That's true - though I think gaming support is one of the things Linux users have been wanting most. I think it's good that a big gaming company like Steam has been supporting Linux for a little while now.

    I prefer doing web dev on a Mac, I also prefer photo editing and making music on a Mac. Doing any kind of dev work in Windows has always been a bit of a nightmare for me. I use a Mac for doing dev stuff at work, but it's also an amazing personal computer. I prefer it infinitely over Windows.

    I'm curious how web development was a nightmare on Windows?
    The development work I've done is more often back-end, desktop software (usually C# these days, but sometimes C++), and some mobile. I've done a little bit of web development and usually I use Windows and can't say I've encountered any significant problems doing it.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Sat Dec 10 13:13:48 2022
    Web development has its own issues though. You have to test it in multiple web browsers (and perhaps multiple versions of multiple web browsers). And for years, IE was the bane of web development as it had its own bugs and special cases you had to allow for. It seems like a
    lot of hassle to have to test for multiple browsers & such.

    Yeah, this is true, to a point. Nowadays we have things like react which makes a lot of this rather straightforward. But yeah I hear you.

    What do you mean by "gets out of the way"?

    I open up my iPad, am instantly on the internet, nothing is being advertised to me, all I need to do is tap the Chrome icon and I'm off and doing what I want. When I'm done, I close the thing, and don't have a second thought. It automatically keeps packages up to date, I never need to click a button to upgrade anything, idk, in my experience I can carry the thing around and then instantly be on the internet anywhere with no fuss.

    Consider that the iPad has democratized computing for groups of people that have never even owned a computer, similarly the iPhone and other smartphones. And these things don't even come with an instruction manual. /That/ is what I mean about it staying out of the way.

    That's true - though I think gaming support is one of the things Linux users have been wanting most. I think it's good that a big gaming
    company like Steam has been supporting Linux for a little while now.

    The problem is the market share of people asking for gaming support on linux are not assumed to be large enough to warrant dumping dev resources into linux support. So a lot of gaming companies actually assume there'd be a financial loss in adding linux support. Not to mention everyone's linux configuration is a mixed bag...for example, on Steam, you can say "You need Windows 10 with 8gb RAM to run this" or "You need MacOS Yosemite" or something like that. With linux, they can try supporting the most recent Ubuntu LTS, but if you read the support forums for these games you'll notice a lot of people with different flavors of linux complain about compatibility issues.

    I do think the Steam Deck has moved the needle a bit in favor of supportability, though, which is great...because I prefer linux and would love to have it for all my gaming needs :)

    I'm curious how web development was a nightmare on Windows?
    The development work I've done is more often back-end, desktop software (usually C# these days, but sometimes C++), and some mobile. I've done a little bit of web development and usually I use Windows and can't say
    I've encountered any significant problems doing it.

    My "dev on windows" experience historically has involved installing some 3rd party bash type thing, building a dev environment, wiring it up to work in the bash (git bash or something else), keeping everything in that environment up to date...whereas now WSL does make things a bit easier but man, that thing is a serious resource hog, and I can't traverse the filesystem well from the Windows side (or vice versa)...it's really just an annoyance and things have been much more straightforward for me to just launch my Mac and do a 'brew update' and am ready to go.

    In other words, Windows hasn't really prevented me from being able to do anything per se...it just isn't as natural of an experience. In Windows, for me to do web dev, I have to bolt on a bunch of unix-y like stuff to an OS that is built completely different and then wrangle it into dev workflows. Whereas with a Mac, it's already built on BSD, and everything is greatly simplified.

    Another example is at my company we supported linux strictly as backend tech for our software and recently have had to build Windows compatibility (again just for our backend stuff). Making things work in Windows has been a total nightmare lol.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Sat Dec 10 15:36:09 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Nightfox on Sat Dec 10 2022 01:13 pm

    I'm curious how web development was a nightmare on Windows?

    My "dev on windows" experience historically has involved installing some 3rd party bash type thing, building a dev environment, wiring it up to work in the bash (git bash or something else), keeping everything in that environment up to date...whereas now WSL does make things a bit easier but man, that thing is a serious resource hog, and I can't traverse the filesystem well from the Windows side (or vice versa)...it's really just an annoyance and things have been much more straightforward for me to just launch my Mac and do a 'brew update' and am ready to go.

    In my experience, I don't recall a time when having a bash shell was needed to do web development, but I suppose some tools may need it. I have seen some editors that support editing files remotely via SSH, but usually that feature is built into the editor or through a plugin (i.e., Visual Studio Code, and even Notepad++ has such a plugin).

    I guess I don't really mind installing 3rd party tools.. The way I see it, you pretty much always have to install some tools to do certain types of work anyway. Not everything can be included in the base OS install.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to esc on Sun Dec 11 13:48:25 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Dec 09 2022 04:08 pm

    I struggle to figure out the killer feature Windows is bringing to the table core remaining major use cases:
    - Gaming (linux is coming along but is still a ways off and may never catch

    I am not sure, but I suspect you could use Microsoft's Game Pass games on Linux. At least I have heard talk in that regard. If you have a proper Internet connection you can play lots of cloud games (in theory). I don't care for modern games but if this is so then the platform is a stepm closer to being irrelevant.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Avon on Mon Dec 12 00:00:04 2022
    Ooo... sounds good. For me the challenge would be not scoffing it all before I formed a good review/view else it would all just be "yum"

    There's a reason why I don't review chocolate. :)

    Though I _did_ put it in my wine wiki at some point, figuring that it'd be interesting to also add the various fancy chocolates I came across.

    But, yeah, bit harder to take a measured approach to it, for me.

    That said, "yum" is a perfectly reasonable review. I have several reviews (though not by me, I think, just ones I entered) where the review was, "tasty" or something like that.

    Probably the most important aspect anyway. "Hint of blackberries, tobacco, and molasses" are probably not overly useful in the grand scheme of things.

    On the other hand, I enjoy referring to "paint thinner" (for many stronger alcohols), "wet dog taste" (for what the back of the tongue part of the taste of a Riesling tastes like (and it may not be the wet dog taste to anyone else -- but it makes sense to me, if I'm describing it to future self)), or "Gobstopper flavor" (which I just enjoy saying, but really _is_ what the smell of some of the gins have reminded me of.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Arelor on Sun Dec 11 20:58:39 2022
    I am not sure, but I suspect you could use Microsoft's Game Pass games on Linux. At least I have heard talk in that regard. If you have a proper Internet connection you can play lots of cloud games (in theory). I
    don't care for modern games but if this is so then the platform is a
    stepm closer to being irrelevant.

    Interesting. I should check it out. Honestly, I tend to get a bit seasick in a lot of FPS type games, the exception is GTAV, so basically I have a gaming rig running Windows just for that game lol. I also prefer older stuff, and have been a pretty big patron of gog.com (they should build a bench for me for all the money I spent there!).

    Any other 'new' games and I really stick to roguelikes, games that "feel" like they existed in the 90s, and Civilization. None of these require massive hardware or anything, in fact many of them function just fine on my linux laptop with onboard intel graphics.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Sun Dec 11 20:59:28 2022
    Though I _did_ put it in my wine wiki at some point, figuring that it'd
    be interesting to also add the various fancy chocolates I came across.

    You have a wine wiki??? Care to share? :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 12 12:32:03 2022
    Though I _did_ put it in my wine wiki at some point, figuring that it be interesting to also add the various fancy chocolates I came across

    You have a wine wiki??? Care to share? :)

    It's just a basic Mediawiki install, I'm behind on adding stuff to the wiki, I've only re-tagged a couple of wines for who were the tasters, and all the other caveats (including that it really is just an exercise in cataloging wines (and gins) that I've tasted, or that others around me have tasted.)

    I suppose other people _could_ add to it, but it's not an open-editing thing (I have no desire to care about spammers, so adding users is a manual thing. Or, really, a thing I don't do at all, because most other people like the concept, but don't really get caught up in cataloging like I do.

    Anyway, http://www.monoceroses.com/wine if you wanted to look.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Sat Dec 10 10:10:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I struggle to figure out the killer feature Windows is bringing to the table nowadays in most use cases. Now that computers are front-ends for the internet, there don't appear to be many interesting
    differentiators.

    Momentum, mostly. You mentioned Office support; I don't think it'll be too long before Office is web-first. It exchanges their golden goose (purchasing office app licenses) for a recurring revenue model with a wider market base. Not a bad choice, looking forward.

    I know people at work that use the web apps almost exclusively, even though they have the Office suite installed on their laptops.

    I've sworn, every time I make a system change, that it'll be the time that I install Linux on my desktop -- but I'm still running Windows, albeit 10
    only. We'll see what I do if this PC lasts longer than Windows 10 support.


    ... Emphasize repetitions
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Sat Dec 10 10:18:00 2022
    esc wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

    You know, this reminds me...I actually for the most part use middle of
    the road hardware for my daily computing needs, throw linux on it, call
    it a day...but I spend a small fortune building vintage DOS and Windows
    98 machines lol. Those were the real days of meaningful innovation...

    As much as I'd love to hear the solid, satisfying KLIKK! of an AT power supply, I might be more tempted to get a thin client and throw DOS on them, They're cheap, they use modern peripherals, and my understanding is that there's DOS support for most of the cheap network cards with packet drivers.

    I think if I went retro, I'd get an old SUN box.


    ... Emphasize repetitions
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to esc on Tue Dec 13 03:44:22 2022
    On 10 Dec 2022 at 01:13p, esc pondered and said...

    Consider that the iPad has democratized computing for groups of people that have never even owned a computer, similarly the iPhone and other smartphones. And these things don't even come with an instruction
    manual. /That/ is what I mean about it staying out of the way.

    The iPad is an amazing tool. I use it to do research; I
    can load up a ton of papers on the thing, and use tools
    like Notability, LiquidText, and OmniGraffle to annotate,
    take notes, design things, etc. It's probably the closest
    I've seen to Engelbart's vision being realized.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to esc on Mon Dec 12 10:39:41 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Arelor on Sun Dec 11 2022 08:58 pm


    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

    If you like roguelikes, you may find my roguelike server amusing. I have only three
    games in it so far but it is serviceable.

    ssh dgamelaunch@operationalsecurity.es (password: Yendor)

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Mon Dec 12 13:15:00 2022
    Anyway, http://www.monoceroses.com/wine if you wanted to look.

    Very cool! mediawiki for content like this is perfect. I look forward to reading.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 12 13:19:16 2022
    Momentum, mostly. You mentioned Office support; I don't think it'll be
    too long before Office is web-first. It exchanges their golden goose (purchasing office app licenses) for a recurring revenue model with a wider market base. Not a bad choice, looking forward.

    My current employer uses Google suite for everything and honestly doing all Office type stuff in a browser is simpler in many ways. I wish the drive integration was stronger but it all works, which is good. And the multitude of MS Office features that differentiate it from GSuite are not very useful IMO...Office products with feature simplicity is a godsend for me at this point in my career (I spent time in the military watching people agonize over silly slide details, it's nice to avoid this).

    I know people at work that use the web apps almost exclusively, even though they have the Office suite installed on their laptops.

    I actually pay for Office for my own purposes (O365 I think) and have written wrappers to make it so that I can treat MS Office applications like fully integrated desktop apps in my linux desktop. Double clicking a Word doc will open in a standalone wrapped web Word app :)

    I've sworn, every time I make a system change, that it'll be the time
    that I install Linux on my desktop -- but I'm still running Windows, albeit 10 only. We'll see what I do if this PC lasts longer than
    Windows 10 support.

    I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 and tried very hard to like it, but really just kept getting frustrated. I wound up blowing everything away and starting from scratch once again with linux and haven't looked back. I just prefer the level of control I get to exert here.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Dec 12 13:24:11 2022
    As much as I'd love to hear the solid, satisfying KLIKK! of an AT power supply, I might be more tempted to get a thin client and throw DOS on them, They're cheap, they use modern peripherals, and my understanding
    is that there's DOS support for most of the cheap network cards with packet drivers.

    On the one hand I agree with you but on the other hand, having hardware Voodoo cards, hardware GUS cards, hardware MT32 (and other midi devices), etc., with a real CRT VGA monitor, is an entirely different experience.

    I /don't/ claim that it's worth the expense. But man, it's fun, and hobbies by nature aren't typically smart financial decisions. :)

    I think if I went retro, I'd get an old SUN box.

    We used Sun boxes at the government for a bit and I never really understood why some people are interested. What would an old SUN box do for you? Serious question?

    It's like the nextcubes and stuff, they're so expensive, and I don't even know what they would bring to the table. I would love to better understand this.

    Recently I've been on an FM Towns kick. I've gotten several from Japanese auction sites in various states of functionality and have managed to cobble together a couple full computers. They are quite a bit of fun, and they look rad.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to tenser on Mon Dec 12 13:26:19 2022
    The iPad is an amazing tool. I use it to do research; I
    can load up a ton of papers on the thing, and use tools
    like Notability, LiquidText, and OmniGraffle to annotate,
    take notes, design things, etc. It's probably the closest
    I've seen to Engelbart's vision being realized.

    Agree - I use my iPad constantly, and it can do most computing related things I need to do on a daily basis outside of very specific things (BBSing being one of them).

    I have one with the cellular option and being able to just open the screen and be instantly connected, with all the capabilities and applications it brings to bare, is really amazing.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Arelor on Mon Dec 12 13:29:43 2022
    If you like roguelikes, you may find my roguelike server amusing. I have only three
    games in it so far but it is serviceable.

    Ah super cool! I have a lot of roguelikes running as doors on my BBS. I /wish/ I could run Brogue but there's no way to do it in 80x25 and the implementation details on my BBS (requiring a bigger screen rez) would be annoying. It's such a masterfully designed game, speaking to the visuals.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Dec 12 21:45:12 2022
    Very cool! mediawiki for content like this is perfect. I look forward to reading.

    Wikis definitely make the whole, "well, this is from Burgundy, but that's also a Pinot Noir, and it was x vintage..." aspect of things a lot easier, as half the fun is finding all the different ways to tag something.

    I've made wikis for a couple other purposes, but, yeah, this usage fits pretty naturally.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to esc on Tue Dec 13 06:47:07 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Arelor on Mon Dec 12 2022 01:29 pm

    If you like roguelikes, you may find my roguelike server amusing. I have
    only three
    games in it so far but it is serviceable.

    Ah super cool! I have a lot of roguelikes running as doors on my BBS. I /wish/ I could run Brogue but
    gned game, speaking to the visuals.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

    I have thought of setting an actual BBS with Roguelike DOors, but in the end of the day I find
    dgamelaunch better if you just want to host terminal games. Besides, dgamelaunch is easy to adapt to
    OpenBSD and its sandboxing models.

    Brogue is great but it is a bitch to adapt to a multiuser environment. Ideally my server would have a
    Brogue version with a common high-score board for Brogue instead of a per-player high score. The web
    versions for Brogue do just that but I have not looked into how they do it yet.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Tue Dec 13 06:33:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    My current employer uses Google suite for everything and honestly doing all Office type stuff in a browser is simpler in many ways. I wish the drive integration was stronger but it all works, which is good. And the multitude of MS Office features that differentiate it from GSuite are
    not very useful IMO...

    With a large company and a team that can help integrate them, Teams, Sharepoint and OneDrive are pretty powerful. There's a new feature called
    Loop where you can share office content collaboratively in Teams, in
    Outlook, and OneDrive/Sharepoint.

    It'd be like being able to copy and paste a table into an email and Teams,
    but have the recipient be able to edit it on the fly and update everywhere.

    Sharepoint is the one thing lacking in GSuite - a way to create intranet sites. Teams sharing is starting to overtake Sharepoint now, to the point where we're running out of space for it!

    For smaller groups, G Suite rocks for simplicity. At home, I find myself
    going to docs.new and sheets.new rather than opening Word or Excel.





    Office products with feature simplicity is a
    godsend for me at this point in my career (I spent time in the military watching people agonize over silly slide details, it's nice to avoid this).

    I know people at work that use the web apps almost exclusively, even though they have the Office suite installed on their laptops.

    I actually pay for Office for my own purposes (O365 I think) and have written wrappers to make it so that I can treat MS Office applications like fully integrated desktop apps in my linux desktop. Double clicking
    a Word doc will open in a standalone wrapped web Word app :)

    I've sworn, every time I make a system change, that it'll be the time
    that I install Linux on my desktop -- but I'm still running Windows, albeit 10 only. We'll see what I do if this PC lasts longer than
    Windows 10 support.

    I upgraded from Win10 to Win11 and tried very hard to like it, but
    really just kept getting frustrated. I wound up blowing everything away and starting from scratch once again with linux and haven't looked
    back. I just prefer the level of control I get to exert here.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

    ... Emphasize repetitions
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Tue Dec 13 06:47:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    On the one hand I agree with you but on the other hand, having hardware Voodoo cards, hardware GUS cards, hardware MT32 (and other midi
    devices), etc., with a real CRT VGA monitor, is an entirely different experience.

    I /don't/ claim that it's worth the expense. But man, it's fun, and hobbies by nature aren't typically smart financial decisions. :)

    Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. I worked in a game company back in the '90s, and we were all in on hardware. Luckily, the company paid for hardware and game playing was encouraged. :)


    I think if I went retro, I'd get an old SUN box.

    We used Sun boxes at the government for a bit and I never really understood why some people are interested. What would an old SUN box do for you? Serious question?

    Nostalgia. The hardware is beautiful to me, the SUN type 5 keyboard is one
    of the best ever made, and my first *nix gig was supporting SUN hardware in
    my server room. I had a Sparc II at my desk at the time with a huge (at the time) 19" monitor. While Windows and Mac were barely multitasking, Solaris
    was able to run most of my infrastructure on a couple of boxes.

    It's like the nextcubes and stuff, they're so expensive, and I don't
    even know what they would bring to the table. I would love to better understand this.

    The NeXT (hope I got the capitalization right) had display postscript when everyone else had jaggedy screen letters, keyboards and mice that felt luxurious by comparison to the cheap PC keyboards of the time, and tools to create apps quickly, if memory serves.

    Those FM Towns systems you mention are interesting. I think I saw a table of those at the Vintage Computer Fair this year.


    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Arelor on Tue Dec 13 11:20:23 2022
    I have thought of setting an actual BBS with Roguelike DOors, but in the end of the day I find
    dgamelaunch better if you just want to host terminal games. Besides, dgamelaunch is easy to adapt to
    OpenBSD and its sandboxing models.

    I'd love to learn more about how each of these games is able to share things. Right now the way I am running things locally, each player plays each game in their own private sandbox.

    I mean, I think this is technically fine, but I would love to find better near-multiplayer-ish implementation if possible :)

    Brogue would be so great if only there was an 80x25 mode I could use. Alas.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 13 11:22:57 2022
    With a large company and a team that can help integrate them, Teams, Sharepoint and OneDrive are pretty powerful. There's a new feature
    called Loop where you can share office content collaboratively in
    Teams, in Outlook, and OneDrive/Sharepoint.

    Perhaps, yeah. My biggest company had 2000 people at its peak. My current one is tipping the scales at under 400 :)

    It'd be like being able to copy and paste a table into an email and
    Teams, but have the recipient be able to edit it on the fly and update everywhere.

    That's pretty cool.

    Sharepoint is the one thing lacking in GSuite - a way to create intranet sites. Teams sharing is starting to overtake Sharepoint now, to the
    point where we're running out of space for it!

    Sharepoint is both a plus and a minus...the flexibility in implementation means everywhere you go has its own navigation style. Which becomes annoying :) The government was obnoxious for how they used Sharepoint for every silly portal and they were all a mess.

    For smaller groups, G Suite rocks for simplicity. At home, I find myself going to docs.new and sheets.new rather than opening Word or Excel.

    Funny, we are basically at opposite ends on tihs one :) I use gsuite for work and MS for private purposes.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Dec 13 11:28:14 2022
    Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. I worked in a game company back in the '90s, and we were all in on hardware. Luckily, the company paid for hardware and game playing was encouraged. :)

    Nice! What company, if I may ask? I feel like we've discussed this before but I'm drawing a blank hehe.

    Nostalgia. The hardware is beautiful to me, the SUN type 5 keyboard is
    one of the best ever made, and my first *nix gig was supporting SUN hardware in my server room. I had a Sparc II at my desk at the time
    with a huge (at the time) 19" monitor. While Windows and Mac were
    barely multitasking, Solaris was able to run most of my infrastructure
    on a couple of boxes.

    Ah, gotcha. So, really, the reason I have all the stuff in my game room is for the same reason, I was just curious if there was something specific you'd be able to do with it from a gaming perspective. But this makes sense.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to esc on Wed Dec 14 09:02:26 2022
    On 12 Dec 2022 at 01:24p, esc pondered and said...

    I think if I went retro, I'd get an old SUN box.

    We used Sun boxes at the government for a bit and I never really understood why some people are interested. What would an old SUN box do for you? Serious question?

    It's like the nextcubes and stuff, they're so expensive, and I don't
    even know what they would bring to the table. I would love to better understand this.

    This is all a billion years old, but the software was a
    huge differentiator. I remember the first time I logged
    into a Sun workstation, being _amazed_ at how much more
    functional it was than my (then) top-of-the-line 486 PC.
    It was simply no-contest. Same with VAXen running VMS.
    You could simply do so much more with the machine, and it
    was much more polished and mature; PCs felt like amateur
    hour by comparison.

    NeXTStep was incredible for its time, with an amazing user
    interface. It did not integrate well with machines from
    other manufacturers, however, and so they were sort of
    like singletons on large networks of Sun, DEC, HP, SGI,
    or IBM machines --- many of which had standardized on and
    fully supported Sun's RPC layer and services (NIS, NFS).
    In that sense, NeXT machines kinda felt like grown-up
    Macintoshes, which in some sense, is exactly what they
    were. SGIs were the next up.

    Still, like I said, it was a long time ago.... I got a
    chance to use a Sun machine at the Living Computer Museum
    in Seattle on a side-trip from USENIX ATC for the Unix 50th
    anniversary. It felt like seeing an old friend after a
    long time, but where after a while you kinda realize why
    you don't hang out that much anymore.

    These days, I don't see much point to using retro hardware,
    particularly when you can usually get a similar _experience_
    in emulation.

    But it was a heady time. Sun machines, in particular, were
    built as the machine that the builders wanted to use, and if
    you wanted to do serious computer work, science, or engineering
    you were using Unix or VMS. People coveted Suns because that
    was so much of the software we were all using was written on
    and for. The switch from the 4.2/4.3BSD-based SunOS 4 to the
    SVR4-based Solaris 2 felt like a big step backwards, though.
    And by then DEC was in trouble and a lot of the Alpha designers
    were heading to greener pastures; Intel got their compiler
    people, AMD got their chip folks. The Pentium was doing by
    sheer force of will (and massive capital investment coupled
    with volume) what the much smaller, higher-margin RISC vendors
    were doing with better technology (that in some cases wasn't
    _as_ good: lookin' at you, MIPS soft TLBs). A PC with a Pentium
    was only half as good as a SPARCstation or SGI, but a quarter
    of the cost, and the trend line was heading towards favoring the
    PC within a decade. Linux and the BSDs (and BSDi) were starting
    to make x86 machines look pretty competitive. By the time AMD
    came out with the Opteron with 64-bit virtual addressing it was
    over. The RISC machines remained better _computers_ overall,
    particularly in their IO subsystems, but they couldn't compete.

    The pre-Web Internet was an amazing, dynamic place, so I can
    see the appeal of wanting to recreate the experience with the
    machines from that time. It's a shame; had RISC and Unix won,
    it would be a very different world.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Dec 14 09:12:36 2022
    On 13 Dec 2022 at 06:47a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    I think if I went retro, I'd get an old SUN box.

    We used Sun boxes at the government for a bit and I never really understood why some people are interested. What would an old SUN box for you? Serious question?

    Nostalgia. The hardware is beautiful to me, the SUN type 5 keyboard is
    one of the best ever made, and my first *nix gig was supporting SUN hardware in my server room. I had a Sparc II at my desk at the time
    with a huge (at the time) 19" monitor. While Windows and Mac were
    barely multitasking, Solaris was able to run most of my infrastructure
    on a couple of boxes.

    Bah. Philistines. The Type-4 keyboard was where it was at.

    It's like the nextcubes and stuff, they're so expensive, and I don't even know what they would bring to the table. I would love to better understand this.

    The NeXT (hope I got the capitalization right) had display postscript
    when everyone else had jaggedy screen letters, keyboards and mice that felt luxurious by comparison to the cheap PC keyboards of the time, and tools to create apps quickly, if memory serves.

    That's all correct. The first web browser was written on
    the NeXT.

    It also had a pretty cool kernel architecture; it was basically
    Mach underneath, with 4BSD bolted on, and they got to the point
    where you could write kernel modules and drivers in Objective-C.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to esc on Tue Dec 13 18:09:24 2022
    Re: Re: 2017/2018 PC to modernize it.
    By: esc to Arelor on Tue Dec 13 2022 11:20 am

    I have thought of setting an actual BBS with Roguelike DOors, but in th end of the day I find
    dgamelaunch better if you just want to host terminal games. Besides, dgamelaunch is easy to adapt to
    OpenBSD and its sandboxing models.

    I'd love to learn more about how each of these games is able to share things

    I mean, I think this is technically fine, but I would love to find better ne

    Brogue would be so great if only there was an 80x25 mode I could use. Alas.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

    The traditional approach by BSD games was to have the scorefiles and the savefiles in a common foolder (such as /var/games/whatever ) which belonged to a system user (say, _games). Games were setgid so when a user launched the game, the game manipulated the scorefiles directly.

    Not the safest approach. OpenBSD has it disabled by default for the default BSDGAMES.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Warpslide on Wed Dec 14 15:55:17 2022
    being something called "Universal Print". This moves your print server to the cloud and also lets you set permissions for your various
    locations as to who can print where, all kind of neat.

    Until you realize that if you loose internet access, you can't print.
    You could be sitting right next to a printer, on the same network, but
    if your location loses internet access, no printing for you.

    This reminds me of the opposite problem, when I was at a work site in California (I'm based in Germany), and I was trying to print to the printer next to me.

    I managed to print to the printer in my office building in Germany.

    I imagine there's a use case for that, but it seems limited.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Wed Dec 14 06:16:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. I worked in a game company back in the '90s, and we were all in on hardware. Luckily, the company paid for hardware and game playing was encouraged. :)

    Nice! What company, if I may ask? I feel like we've discussed this
    before but I'm drawing a blank hehe.

    Eidos Interactive. The company that did Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Daikatana,
    Final Fantasy 7, Hitman and Thief.





    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Wed Dec 14 06:30:00 2022
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    With a large company and a team that can help integrate them, Teams, Sharepoint and OneDrive are pretty powerful. There's a new feature
    called Loop where you can share office content collaboratively in
    Teams, in Outlook, and OneDrive/Sharepoint.

    Perhaps, yeah. My biggest company had 2000 people at its peak. My
    current one is tipping the scales at under 400 :)

    171,000 here. We're one of the biggest Microsoft365 users, from what I've
    been told.

    My division was maintained up until recently as a subsidiary, we had 20 people. It was the best of both worlds, like working at a startup with the budget of a much bigger company and technical resources I could call on for the more complex issues like SSO, security and so on.

    For smaller groups, G Suite rocks for simplicity. At home, I find myself going to docs.new and sheets.new rather than opening Word or Excel.

    Funny, we are basically at opposite ends on tihs one :) I use gsuite
    for work and MS for private purposes.

    I was all MS at home, but when I was laid off a couple of years back, forced myself to use G suite to be proficient at it. Now, there's no going back.


    ... There are secrets within lies, answers within riddles.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to tenser on Wed Dec 14 06:35:00 2022
    tenser wrote to esc <=-

    A PC with a Pentium
    was only half as good as a SPARCstation or SGI, but a quarter
    of the cost, and the trend line was heading towards favoring the
    PC within a decade.

    In 1999, I ran the web site for a company that used a Sun Enterprise 250 for Oracle and an Ultra 2 for the web front-end running Tomcat. When we expanded the site, I bought several 1u intel boxes and threw Linux on them, and they ran the web site. I'm pretty sure they cost less than another Ultra 2. That was the tipping point for me.


    ... Convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From tenser@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Dec 15 11:30:16 2022
    On 14 Dec 2022 at 06:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    tenser wrote to esc <=-

    A PC with a Pentium
    was only half as good as a SPARCstation or SGI, but a quarter
    of the cost, and the trend line was heading towards favoring the
    PC within a decade.

    In 1999, I ran the web site for a company that used a Sun Enterprise 250 for Oracle and an Ultra 2 for the web front-end running Tomcat. When we expanded the site, I bought several 1u intel boxes and threw Linux on them, and they ran the web site. I'm pretty sure they cost less than another Ultra 2. That was the tipping point for me.

    I bet you're right. A few years later, they were faster
    than the Ultra, too.

    I was sad when SPARC was canc'd last year, but it was past
    time. Register windows and soft TLBs were nifty for the
    time, but in the harsh light of experience, proven not to
    be as cool as was initially thought.

    And it'll live on in the embedded space.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Dec 14 20:17:09 2022
    Eidos Interactive. The company that did Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, Daikatana, Final Fantasy 7, Hitman and Thief.

    Ah, right, we did discuss! I recall telling you I've been playing some of those on my Win98 built machine :)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to esc on Fri Dec 16 00:28:41 2022
    As much as I'd love to hear the solid, satisfying KLIKK! of an AT pow supply, I might be more tempted to get a thin client and throw DOS on them, They're cheap, they use modern peripherals, and my understandi is that there's DOS support for most of the cheap network cards with packet drivers.

    On the one hand I agree with you but on the other hand, having hardware Voodoo cards, hardware GUS cards, hardware MT32 (and other midi
    devices), etc., with a real CRT VGA monitor, is an entirely different experience.

    I /don't/ claim that it's worth the expense. But man, it's fun, and hobbies by nature aren't typically smart financial decisions. :)


    It is a different experience, in particular the monitor. Emulation of the sound and video cards is quite good, but the screen makes all the difference. Especially with older computers (ie, CGA amber monitors). There is no way to reproduce the old phosphor screen satisfactorily now.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)