• Any thoughts on Discovery?

    From sam@VERT/TTLYNERD to All on Wed Mar 6 00:14:49 2019
    Saw some posts about Trek earlier, and just curious what everyone's take is on Discovery. I'm digging this second season though didn't care much for last season.

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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to sam on Wed Mar 6 02:11:20 2019
    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: sam to All on Tue Mar 05 2019 16:14:49

    Saw some posts about Trek earlier, and just curious what everyone's take is on Discovery. I'm digging this second season though didn't care much for last season.

    I'm giving it a shot. First season was meh. Second season is a bit better. Most of the complaints that people have, have to do with continuity or whatever. It's a TV show though, and Star Trek was never really that big on continuity in the first place, so whatever.

    I like the dude playing Pike, he was a good choice. Wish we got a bit more of the rest of the crew... there's an entire regular-cast bridge crew that we've barely heard anything from, which is... weird. TNG managed a regular cast of like 9 or so and we felt like we knew each of them. This one has like... four that we get any decent exposure for, the rest are background characters.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Derision on Wed Mar 6 04:45:38 2019
    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: Derision to sam on Tue Mar 05 2019 06:11 pm

    I'm giving it a shot. First season was meh. Second season is a bit better. Most of the complaints that people have, have to do with continuity or whatever. It's a TV show though, and Star Trek was never really that big on continuity in the first place, so whatever.

    I think Star Trek has been fairly good with continuity, except for the look of the Klingons (which they've tried to explain) and a couple other small things. And in fact, I heard one of the reasons they wanted to start over with the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies in 2009 was so they wouldn't have to worry about continuity issues when writing their stories.

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Wed Mar 6 14:19:00 2019
    Nightfox wrote to Derision <=-

    I heard one of the reasons they wanted
    to start over with the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies in 2009 was so they wouldn't have to worry about continuity issues when writing their
    stories.


    That's a shame. I've read some great fiction intertwined with canon that
    was very entertaining. There are enough gaps that need filling with good
    story that there's no need, IMO to start over. You can use the
    already-fleshed out back story to build your story.

    The Star Trek: Vanguard series of novels (great read, BTW) did a good job
    of filling in storylines in and around TOS, creating new stories, and using
    the elements of TOS to build a better story.

    And, then, there's Axanar - building a whole story around one minor
    character in TOS and making it engaging.





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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Wed Mar 6 21:01:00 2019
    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery
    By: Nightfox to Derision on Tue Mar 05 2019 08:45 pm

    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: Derision to sam on Tue Mar 05 2019 06:11 pm

    I'm giving it a shot. First season was meh. Second season is a bit bett Most of the complaints that people have, have to do with continuity or whatever. It's a TV show though, and Star Trek was never really that bi on continuity in the first place, so whatever.

    I think Star Trek has been fairly good with continuity, except for the look the Klingons (which they've tried to explain) and a couple other small thing And in fact, I heard one of the reasons they wanted to start over with the J Abrams Star Trek movies in 2009 was so they wouldn't have to worry about continuity issues when writing their stories.

    Nightfox

    Years ago I read there were arguments between Gene Roddenberry and his writers during the STNG era that his ideal view of the future made it difficult to write for. Writers such as Ron Moore were more apt to create characters that were flawed in serious ways, and Roddenberry was reluctant to create a character with a any issues that couldn't be resolved in an episode or two.
    TV programming in the past often involved swapping episode show dates and
    more serial in nature episodes didn't work out well. The writers would have
    to remind him that syndication resolved that issue.

    Overall I thought the continuity was pretty good in the STNG years.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 6 20:50:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Mar 06 2019 06:19 am

    I heard one of the reasons they wanted
    to start over with the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies in 2009 was so
    they wouldn't have to worry about continuity issues when writing
    their stories.

    That's a shame. I've read some great fiction intertwined with canon that was very entertaining. There are enough gaps that need filling with good story that there's no need, IMO to start over. You can use the already-fleshed out back story to build your story.

    Yeah, for a long time, I've thought it would be interesting to see a new Star Trek TV show or movie focusing on the Enterprise B or C, since we've only officially seen them once each in a Star Trek show or movie. Something taking place after Nemesis would be good too. I've been getting tired of the prequels and reboots they've been doing involving the TOS cast (we've already seen them a lot) and what happened before (Enterprise and Discovery), although I suppose those stories are interesting too.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Wed Mar 6 20:56:48 2019
    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Wed Mar 06 2019 01:01 pm

    Years ago I read there were arguments between Gene Roddenberry and his writers during the STNG era that his ideal view of the future made it difficult to write for. Writers such as Ron Moore were more apt to create characters that were flawed in serious ways, and Roddenberry was reluctant to create a character with a any issues that couldn't be resolved in an episode or two. TV programming in the past often involved swapping episode show dates and more serial in nature episodes didn't work out well. The writers would have to remind him that syndication resolved that issue.

    I read the same thing. And I read that when they started on DS9, they broke from tradition a bit in making characters that were more flawed and making long story arcs over multiple episodes or even a whole season.

    Overall I thought the continuity was pretty good in the STNG years.

    I agree. A couple things I noticed though, mostly after the TNG movies came out:
    - There was a TNG episode ("Relics") where they found Scotty (from TOS) who had been kept inside a transporter buffer and beamed him back out. Scotty said something like "I knew Kirk would come for us!" But then in the movie "Generations", Scotty witnessed Kirk's supposed death on the Enterprise B, which happened before Scotty would have gone into the transporter buffer.

    - In the TNG episode "Tapestry", a young Picard is shown in his academy days, and he had a full head of hair. In the movie "Nemesis", there was a photo of Picard in his academy days showing him with a bald head (I suppose to be consistent with the Picard clone, Shinzon). I suppose it's possible that Picard could have shaved his head at the academy, but it seemed like an inconsistency.

    Nightfox

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  • From sam@VERT/TTLYNERD to Derision on Thu Mar 7 01:00:37 2019
    Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: sam to All on Tue Mar 05 2019 16:14:49

    Saw some posts about Trek earlier, and just curious what everyone's take is on Discovery. I'm digging this second season though didn't care much for last season.


    I like the dude playing Pike, he was a good choice. Wish we got a bit more of the rest of the crew... there's an entire regular-cast bridge crew that we've barely heard anything from, which is... weird. TNG managed a regular cast of like 9 or so and we felt like we knew each of them. This one has like... four that we get any decent exposure for, the rest are background characters.

    I agree 100% and have been telling my wife this exact same thing. The thing that made TNG, Voyager, and DS9 so great is the
    character development. Riker played trumbone, Crusher liked to dance, Harry Kim played the clarinet, Tom Paris liked 80s/90s stuff,
    Sisko liked baseball, each character by season two of each series had such depth -- not so much in Discovery. They're trying to play
    so close to canon that the characters are becoming shallow.

    Hope they don't keep this up...

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to sam on Wed Mar 6 23:27:37 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: sam to Derision on Wed Mar 06 2019 05:00 pm

    I agree 100% and have been telling my wife this exact same thing. The thing that made TNG, Voyager, and DS9 so great is the
    character development. Riker played trumbone, Crusher liked to dance, Harry Kim played the clarinet, Tom Paris liked 80s/90s stuff,
    Sisko liked baseball, each character by season two of each series had such depth -- not so much in Discovery. They're trying to play
    so close to canon that the characters are becoming shallow.

    I agree. And on TNG, the funny thing is, I think they started to do a lot more character development in the last season. In season 7, we learned that Riker's first captain was trying to develop a Federation cloaking device and Riker defended his captain when his shipmates were mutinying. And in season 7 we also learned that Troi had a sister who died in childhood. Also we learned that Crusher had a grandmother living on another planet and inherited a property there that had a ghost who was actually an alien who was visiting her grandmother. Seemed like a lot of new character development in the last season.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 7 17:49:00 2019
    On 03-06-19 12:50, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Yeah, for a long time, I've thought it would be interesting to see a
    new Star Trek TV show or movie focusing on the Enterprise B or C, since

    YES! That era could have been interesting. There's at least one important treaty that was signed in this period - with the Romulans.

    we've only officially seen them once each in a Star Trek show or movie.
    Something taking place after Nemesis would be good too. I've been getting tired of the prequels and reboots they've been doing involving
    the TOS cast (we've already seen them a lot) and what happened before (Enterprise and Discovery), although I suppose those stories are interesting too.

    I'd have liked to have seen Enterprise go for another few seasons, because that would have brought the Earth-Romulan war into focus, which started just after the time period Enterprise (except for the last episode) was set. That war would have been interesting to see play out, and it would have been more back story that led to the birth of the Federation. We saw the initial seesd in the 2 episodes that dealt with the Romulans in season 4.


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 7 06:05:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 06 2019 12:50 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Mar 06 2019 06:19 am

    I heard one of the reasons they wanted
    to start over with the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies in 2009 was so
    they wouldn't have to worry about continuity issues when writing
    their stories.

    That's a shame. I've read some great fiction intertwined with canon tha was very entertaining. There are enough gaps that need filling with goo story that there's no need, IMO to start over. You can use the already-fleshed out back story to build your story.

    Yeah, for a long time, I've thought it would be interesting to see a new Sta Trek TV show or movie focusing on the Enterprise B or C, since we've only officially seen them once each in a Star Trek show or movie. Something taki place after Nemesis would be good too. I've been getting tired of the prequ and reboots they've been doing involving the TOS cast (we've already seen th a lot) and what happened before (Enterprise and Discovery), although I suppo those stories are interesting too.

    Nightfox

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George Takei and Tim Russ
    (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager). Another variation of the show was doing it as an animated series with CGI. In one of the James Cawley fanfiction productions George appeared with the actress that used to play Yeoman Rand. I thnk I would've enjoyed that better than Enterprise.
    Christian Slater appeared on oneof the movies as a cast member of the Excelsior, he would've been a good addition for a show.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 7 06:13:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to sam on Wed Mar 06 2019 03:27 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: sam to Derision on Wed Mar 06 2019 05:00 pm

    I agree 100% and have been telling my wife this exact same thing. The thing that made TNG, Voyager, and DS9 so great is the
    character development. Riker played trumbone, Crusher liked to dance, Harry Kim played the clarinet, Tom Paris liked 80s/90s stuff,
    Sisko liked baseball, each character by season two of each series had s depth -- not so much in Discovery. They're trying to play
    so close to canon that the characters are becoming shallow.

    I agree. And on TNG, the funny thing is, I think they started to do a lot m character development in the last season. In season 7, we learned that Rike first captain was trying to develop a Federation cloaking device and Riker defended his captain when his shipmates were mutinying. And in season 7 we also learned that Troi had a sister who died in childhood. Also we learned that Crusher had a grandmother living on another planet and inherited a property there that had a ghost who was actually an alien who was visiting h grandmother. Seemed like a lot of new character development in the last season.

    Nightfox

    Back when TOS came out, it was pitched to NBC as Wagon Train in space. The joke about DS9 is it essentially Rifleman in space. Sisko and his son are Luc as and Mark McCain, and the baseball reference goes aslo back to Rifleman. Chuck Connors was a major league baseball player for the Chicago Cubs and another franchise, and used to bring a ball and ball out to the Southfork set to play with Johnny Crawford.

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  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Moondog on Thu Mar 7 20:53:58 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 06 2019 12:50 pm

    hmmm... since the subject changed from "Any thoughts on Discovery" to "Re: Any thoughts on Disco" then, yes I have just one ... it's dead LOL


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 7 17:55:36 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 07 2019 09:49 am

    I'd have liked to have seen Enterprise go for another few seasons, because that would have brought the Earth-Romulan war into focus, which started just after the time period Enterprise (except for the last episode) was set. That war would have been interesting to see play out, and it would have been more back story that led to the birth of the Federation. We saw the initial seesd in the 2 episodes that dealt with the Romulans in season 4.

    Yeah, I actually thought Enterprise was an interesting show, and I thought it was getting fairly interesting when it was canceled. I would have liked to see it go on longer too.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thu Mar 7 18:01:16 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Wed Mar 06 2019 10:05 pm

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George Takei and Tim Russ (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager). Another variation

    That would have been interesting. I remember George Takei making an April Fools Day post on Facebook several years ago that they were about to start filming an Excelsior show with him, but as it was an April Fools Day joke, I wasn't sure if there was ever any serious talk about an Excelsior series.

    Enterprise. Christian Slater appeared on oneof the movies as a cast member of the Excelsior, he would've been a good addition for a show.

    I remember seeing Christian Slater in Star Trek. I think it was Star Trek 3? I think I remember him from when he was at the captain's quarters in the Excelsior to tell him Kirk was taking the Enterprise from spacedock without permission.

    A while ago, I saw a web site with a list of "actors you didn't realize were in Star Trek". It mentioned Christian Slater, and I was thinking, uh yeah I actually do remember him in Star Trek.. And it also mentioned The Rock in an episode of Voyager, which I remember too.. If you're a Star Trek fan, you probably remember those things.

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thu Mar 7 14:37:00 2019
    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George Takei and Tim Russ (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager).

    They did a good job of going back in time in Voyager in an episode - GT reprised his role as Captain Sulu from ST VI. He even fit into the old
    costume some 20 years later!




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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to sam on Thu Mar 7 21:21:04 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: sam to Derision on Wed Mar 06 2019 05:00 pm

    I agree 100% and have been telling my wife this exact same thing. The thing that made TNG, Voyager, and DS9 so great is the
    character development. Riker played trumbone, Crusher liked to dance, Harry Kim played the clarinet, Tom Paris liked 80s/90s stuff,
    Sisko liked baseball, each character by season two of each series had such depth -- not so much in Discovery. They're trying to play
    so close to canon that the characters are becoming shallow.

    I think most of this is due to the nature of modern Television. TV has gone from being episodic to serial. Which is fine, I love a drawn out story. However, this doesn't leave much room for ship-in-a-bottle episodes that focus on a character, since Discovery is only doing 13-14 episodes a season as well. all the other Trek series had around 24-26 episodes per season, and each episode was a new story.

    I definitely want to know more about Detmer, Owosekun, and especially Lt. Commander Airiam, who was played by Sara Mitich in the first season and now is played by Hannah Cheeseman.

    According to Memory-Alpha, even the writers don't really know who/what Lt. Commander Airiam is. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Airiam

    SPEAK TO ME ROBOT LADY. TELL ME YOUR STORY!

    DaiTengu

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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Mortifis on Thu Mar 7 21:23:28 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to Moondog on Thu Mar 07 2019 12:53 pm

    hmmm... since the subject changed from "Any thoughts on Discovery" to "Re: Any thoughts on Disco" then, yes I have just one ... it's dead LOL

    Star Trek Discovery is affectionately referred to as "Disco", as the abbreviation "STD" has some negative connotations.

    DaiTengu

    ... There are some things worth dying for. Kirk, Errand of Mercy, stardate 320

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 7 21:10:15 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Mar 07 2019 06:37 am

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to
    the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George
    Takei and Tim Russ (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager).

    They did a good job of going back in time in Voyager in an episode - GT reprised his role as Captain Sulu from ST VI. He even fit into the old costume some 20 years later!

    Yeah, I liked that episode, and it was interesting to see them re-create the scene of the Klingon moon exploding and the shockwave hitting the Excelsior. Also it was interesting to develop some of Tuvok's backstory as having served with Sulu. But at the same time, it always seems weird when they do retcons like that. We didn't see Tuvok bringing Sulu his tea in Star Trek 6, but admittedly, there was probably a lot more going on on the Excelsior that we didn't see. The retcon of adding the Borg queen in 'First Contact' always bugged me a bit too, though I think First Contact is probably one of the better TNG movies.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 7 21:12:44 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: DaiTengu to sam on Thu Mar 07 2019 01:21 pm

    I think most of this is due to the nature of modern Television. TV has gone from being episodic to serial. Which is fine, I love a drawn out story. However, this doesn't leave much room for ship-in-a-bottle episodes that focus on a character, since Discovery is only doing 13-14 episodes a season as well. all the other Trek series had around 24-26 episodes per season, and each episode was a new story.

    One thing I like about older shows like Star Trek: The Next Generation (which was one of my favorite shows) is that you can often go back and watch pretty much any episode later, because most of them are self-contained episodes. And for a lot of shows these days, you can't really miss one episode because then you'll be lost without knowing what happened. I guess that benefits the companies that do streaming TV and DVR services, since more people will subscribe to them so they can always go back and watch episodes they missed.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 7 21:13:29 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Mortifis on Thu Mar 07 2019 01:23 pm

    Star Trek Discovery is affectionately referred to as "Disco", as the abbreviation "STD" has some negative connotations.

    Yep. I the official abbreviation is DSC though.

    Nightfox

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 7 23:03:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Mar 07 2019 06:37 am

    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George Takei and Tim Russ (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager).

    They did a good job of going back in time in Voyager in an episode - GT reprised his role as Captain Sulu from ST VI. He even fit into the old costume some 20 years later!




    ... Can you hear me?
    George kept in shape. Until a few years ago he was still running marathons. Due to a back problem he does elevated pushups, which are a step more
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 7 23:08:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Mar 07 2019 10:01 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Wed Mar 06 2019 10:05 pm

    There was talk about the time Voyager was ending of going back to the current TOS timeline with an Excelsior series starring George Takei and Tim Russ (Tuvok served under Sulu well before Voyager). Another variati

    That would have been interesting. I remember George Takei making an April Fools Day post on Facebook several years ago that they were about to start filming an Excelsior show with him, but as it was an April Fools Day joke, I wasn't sure if there was ever any serious talk about an Excelsior series.

    Enterprise. Christian Slater appeared on oneof the movies as a cast mem of the Excelsior, he would've been a good addition for a show.

    I remember seeing Christian Slater in Star Trek. I think it was Star Trek 3 I think I remember him from when he was at the captain's quarters in the Excelsior to tell him Kirk was taking the Enterprise from spacedock without permission.

    A while ago, I saw a web site with a list of "actors you didn't realize were Star Trek". It mentioned Christian Slater, and I was thinking, uh yeah I actually do remember him in Star Trek.. And it also mentioned The Rock in a episode of Voyager, which I remember too.. If you're a Star Trek fan, you probably remember those things.

    Nightfox

    Christian Slater's mother Mary Jo Slater was the casting director for several shows, including STNG and the movies. Regarding the Rock, he was not the
    only wrestler UPN placed on the show to get wrestling cross over fans. IIRC The Big Show played an Orion slave trader on Enterprise

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 8 06:06:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 07 2019 01:12 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: DaiTengu to sam on Thu Mar 07 2019 01:21 pm

    I think most of this is due to the nature of modern Television. TV has gone from being episodic to serial. Which is fine, I love a drawn out story. However, this doesn't leave much room for ship-in-a-bottle episo that focus on a character, since Discovery is only doing 13-14 episodes season as well. all the other Trek series had around 24-26 episodes per season, and each episode was a new story.

    One thing I like about older shows like Star Trek: The Next Generation (whic was one of my favorite shows) is that you can often go back and watch pretty much any episode later, because most of them are self-contained episodes. A for a lot of shows these days, you can't really miss one episode because the you'll be lost without knowing what happened. I guess that benefits the companies that do streaming TV and DVR services, since more people will subscribe to them so they can always go back and watch episodes they missed.

    Nightfox

    I understand that well. I live in the middle of nowhere where there's no cable, and when I picked up a dish Farscape was already in the second or
    third season. There was so much I was confused about. A couple of years ago
    a new station appeared and showed the series from beginning to end, and it mad e much more sense.

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  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to DaiTengu on Sun Mar 10 01:15:13 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to Moondog on Thu Mar 07 2019 12:53 pm

    hmmm... since the subject changed from "Any thoughts on Discovery" to "Re: Any thoughts on Disco" then, yes I have just one ... it's dead LOL

    Star Trek Discovery is affectionately referred to as "Disco", as the abbreviation "STD" has some negative connotations.

    DaiTengu

    I know, but I am an an old head banger and just couldn't resit :)


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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Mortifis on Sun Mar 10 01:40:15 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to DaiTengu on Sat Mar 09 2019 05:15 pm

    I know, but I am an an old head banger and just couldn't resit :)

    I would never name my BBS after a song by the greatest weapon against the infestation of the dirty and smelly hippie, SLAYER. Nope, not me. :)

    I definitely wish I had named it "South of Heaven" though. I keep thinking about setting up a second BBS named that....

    DaiTengu

    ... Life is a sexually transmitted disease

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Mar 10 05:40:00 2019
    On 03-07-19 09:55, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Yeah, I actually thought Enterprise was an interesting show, and I
    thought it was getting fairly interesting when it was canceled. I
    would have liked to see it go on longer too.

    I quite enjoyed Enterprise and the 4th season was really good.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 10 22:48:00 2019
    On 03-07-19 06:37, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Moondog <=-

    They did a good job of going back in time in Voyager in an episode - GT reprised his role as Captain Sulu from ST VI. He even fit into the old costume some 20 years later!


    That was a good episode, and it was good to see Sulu and Excelsior again.


    ... Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Mar 10 22:51:00 2019
    On 03-07-19 13:13, Nightfox wrote to DaiTengu <=-

    Yep. I the official abbreviation is DSC though.

    That works and fits in with TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. :)


    ... BUFFERS=20 FILES=15 2nd down, 4th quarter, 5 yards to go!
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Mar 10 22:54:00 2019
    On 03-07-19 15:03, Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    George kept in shape. Until a few years ago he was still running

    Yeah, that's the trick. :)

    marathons. Due to a back problem he does elevated pushups, which are a step more difficult for most folk.

    Elevated which way? I find elevated feet the hardest (yes, I still do pushups, lots of them!). :)


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to DAITENGU on Sun Mar 10 17:09:00 2019
    I would never name my BBS after a song by the greatest weapon against the infestation of the dirty and smelly hippie, SLAYER. Nope, not me. :)

    I definitely wish I had named it "South of Heaven" though. I keep thinking about setting up a second BBS named that....

    Reading this in SLMR, which truncates the subjects to ~24 characters, made
    me wonder why this was showing up under a thread called "re: Any thoughts on Disco"? :D

    ---
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    þ Synchronet þ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 11 17:13:44 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Mar 10 2019 03:51 pm

    Yep. I the official abbreviation is DSC though.

    That works and fits in with TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. :)

    Although DSC is the official abbreviation, I thought it was a little odd because it's a 3-letter abbreviation for a 1-word title.. The abbreviations for Voyager and Enterprise are just the first 3 letters, which I think makes more sense for those. Why not DIS for Discovery?

    The others make sense too because they're acronyms..

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Mon Mar 11 18:01:40 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 11 2019 10:13 am

    Although DSC is the official abbreviation, I thought it was a little odd because it's a 3-letter abbreviation for a 1-word title.. The abbreviations for Voyager and Enterprise are just the first 3 letters, which I think makes more sense for those. Why not DIS for Discovery?

    I think this all started from a scene in Discovery where Burnham and the cadet are jogging on Discovery, wearing t-shirts that say DISCO on them.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue Mar 12 13:36:00 2019
    On 03-11-19 10:13, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Although DSC is the official abbreviation, I thought it was a little
    odd because it's a 3-letter abbreviation for a 1-word title.. The abbreviations for Voyager and Enterprise are just the first 3 letters, which I think makes more sense for those. Why not DIS for Discovery?

    Well, it could be DIS or DAT. :D

    But seriously, yeah you have a point, though maybe they didn't want something that could be pronounced. But yeah, the question could be asked "What is wrong with DIS?" ;)


    ... In comparison, there's no comparison.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 11 22:54:31 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Tue Mar 12 2019 06:36 am

    odd because it's a 3-letter abbreviation for a 1-word title.. The
    abbreviations for Voyager and Enterprise are just the first 3
    letters, which I think makes more sense for those. Why not DIS for
    Discovery?

    Well, it could be DIS or DAT. :D

    But seriously, yeah you have a point, though maybe they didn't want something that could be pronounced. But yeah, the question could be asked "What is wrong with DIS?" ;)

    Or perhaps they wouldn't want to think anyone was dissing the show. :P

    "DSC" looks like it could be pronounced as "disc"/"disk".

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Vk3jed on Wed Mar 13 02:13:35 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Mar 09 2019 09:40 pm

    Yeah, I actually thought Enterprise was an interesting show, and I
    thought it was getting fairly interesting when it was canceled. I
    would have liked to see it go on longer too.

    I quite enjoyed Enterprise and the 4th season was really good.

    I wound up watching the series years later, when I was able to skip over the god-awful intro. I enjoyed it, but fully expected Al to pop up behind Archer any time he was in a predicament and say "Sam, Ziggy says you only have a 23.7% chance of getting out of this alive!"



    DaiTengu

    ... Never invest your money in anything that eats or needs painting.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to DaiTengu on Wed Mar 13 18:21:53 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to DaiTengu on Sat Mar 09 2019 05:15 pm

    I know, but I am an an old head banger and just couldn't resit :)

    I would never name my BBS after a song by the greatest weapon against the infestation of the dirty and smelly hippie, SLAYER. Nope, not me. :)

    I think I am missing a reference here, who named a BBS after a song referring to Slayer?




    The Granny Lane, where seasoned drivers slow down and smell the blacktop roses

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ AlleyCat! BBS - http://alleycat.synchro.net:81
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Mortifis on Wed Mar 13 20:50:12 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to DaiTengu on Wed Mar 13 2019 11:21 am

    I would never name my BBS after a song by the greatest weapon against
    the infestation of the dirty and smelly hippie, SLAYER. Nope, not me.
    :)

    I think I am missing a reference here, who named a BBS after a song referring to Slayer?

    Hi, I'm Mike. My BBS is named "War Ensemble BBS". Nice to meet you.

    DaiTengu

    ... The older you get, the more important is is not to act your age.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Mortifis on Wed Mar 13 20:56:14 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to DaiTengu on Wed Mar 13 2019 11:21 am

    I would never name my BBS after a song by the greatest weapon against
    the infestation of the dirty and smelly hippie, SLAYER. Nope, not me.
    :)

    I think I am missing a reference here, who named a BBS after a song referring to Slayer?

    Hi, I'm Mike. My BBS is named "War Ensemble BBS". Nice to meet you.
    (See my origin line at the end of this message)


    DaiTengu

    ... The older you get, the more important is is not to act your age.


    Mike

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wed Mar 13 21:18:00 2019
    On 03-11-19 15:54, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Or perhaps they wouldn't want to think anyone was dissing the show. :P

    Could be. ;)

    "DSC" looks like it could be pronounced as "disc"/"disk".

    :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to DaiTengu on Fri Mar 15 01:24:00 2019
    On 03-12-19 19:13, DaiTengu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I wound up watching the series years later, when I was able to skip
    over the god-awful intro. I enjoyed it, but fully expected Al to pop up behind Archer any time he was in a predicament and say "Sam, Ziggy says you only have a 23.7% chance of getting out of this alive!"

    Hahaha. But season 4 was setting up for some interesting things. It straightened our relationship with the Vulcans, offered an in canon explanation for the changing appearances of the Klingons and setup a prelude to the Romulan war, which was due to start in season 5 or 6, going by other Trek material.



    DaiTengu

    ... Never invest your money in anything that eats or needs painting.

    Hahaha. :D


    ... Hmmm ... isn't BBSing just full of surprises?
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 14 17:07:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Vk3jed on Tue Mar 12 2019 07:13 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Discovery?
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Mar 09 2019 09:40 pm

    Yeah, I actually thought Enterprise was an interesting show, and I
    thought it was getting fairly interesting when it was canceled. I
    would have liked to see it go on longer too.

    I quite enjoyed Enterprise and the 4th season was really good.

    I wound up watching the series years later, when I was able to skip over th god-awful intro. I enjoyed it, but fully expected Al to pop up behind Archer any time he was in a predicament and say "Sam, Ziggy says you only have a 23 chance of getting out of this alive!"



    DaiTengu

    ... Never invest your money in anything that eats or needs painting.

    In retrospect I get the impression the temporal civil war side story was working into a possible introduction of another Trek spinoff dealing with the Temporal Prime Directive. I didn't mind the occasional time travel or time loop story in any of the series, however in Voyager they were beginning to
    push a bit too much on time travel.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 14 13:44:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to Nightfox <=-

    So, I played catch-up with Discovery. Season 1 was a little weak, Season 2
    was so full of easter eggs and references to the old series that it
    resonated well.

    Anson Mount as Christopher Pike is wonderful, funny and animated,
    interesting since Jeffrey Hunter was allegedly too quiet and contemplative
    in playing Pike. That, apparently, drove them to Shatner's portrayal of
    Kirk.

    S2E8 was wonderful.

    I'm hooked now.



    ... How does this work, is there an orientation?
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.51
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Thu Mar 14 16:27:59 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 14 2019 10:07 am

    In retrospect I get the impression the temporal civil war side story was working into a possible introduction of another Trek spinoff dealing with the Temporal Prime Directive. I didn't mind the occasional time travel or time loop story in any of the series, however in Voyager they were beginning to push a bit too much on time travel.

    Voyager? I thought Enterprise did time travel a bit much with their temporal cold war and with Crewman Daniels sometimes whisking Archer away to some future point in time to show him something. I think Enterprise did that stuff throughout the whole series. Voyager, I think there were only a few time travel episodes that I can remember.. There was the one where they went back to 1996 because there was that guy who created a company 'inventing' stuff he found from the future. There was the other where Chakotay and Kim from 15 years in the future sent a message back to save Voyager from a mistake they made with a quantum slipstream drive. And there were maybe a couple episodes with a federation time ship from the future or something that went back to try to stop Voyager from doing things.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 14 16:29:12 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 14 2019 06:44 am

    So, I played catch-up with Discovery. Season 1 was a little weak, Season 2 was so full of easter eggs and references to the old series that it resonated well.

    Anson Mount as Christopher Pike is wonderful, funny and animated, interesting since Jeffrey Hunter was allegedly too quiet and contemplative in playing Pike. That, apparently, drove them to Shatner's portrayal of Kirk.

    S2E8 was wonderful.

    I'm hooked now.

    I'm catching up on Discovery and have only seen the first 2 episodes of season 2 so far. Seems not bad so far.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 15 23:15:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Thu Mar 14 2019 09:27 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to DaiTengu on Thu Mar 14 2019 10:07 am

    In retrospect I get the impression the temporal civil war side story wa working into a possible introduction of another Trek spinoff dealing wi the Temporal Prime Directive. I didn't mind the occasional time travel time loop story in any of the series, however in Voyager they were beginning to push a bit too much on time travel.

    Voyager? I thought Enterprise did time travel a bit much with their tempora cold war and with Crewman Daniels sometimes whisking Archer away to some fut point in time to show him something. I think Enterprise did that stuff throughout the whole series. Voyager, I think there were only a few time travel episodes that I can remember.. There was the one where they went bac to 1996 because there was that guy who created a company 'inventing' stuff h found from the future. There was the other where Chakotay and Kim from 15 years in the future sent a message back to save Voyager from a mistake they made with a quantum slipstream drive. And there were maybe a couple episode with a federation time ship from the future or something that went back to t to stop Voyager from doing things.

    Nightfox

    I dhould've phrased it regarding pre-Enterprise. The temporal cold war appeared to be the basis of a spinoff, and those roots began appearing in Voyager. There was the 1996 trip , plus there was a time in which 7 of 9 travelled back to Voyager in the past. Those were both Time Authority
    related. My impression was the Time Authority series may have been what we
    got instead of Enterprise. Personally I would've preferred a Below Decks related series where the main cast is the second shift or junior officer
    staff, and some episodes could be recreations of existing episodes shown from the junior staff's perspective. Another idea was an Excelsior based idea
    where Sulu is delayed from retiring due to a shortage of seasoned officers after a major conflict. Since he has spent time in just about every bridge station, he's perfect for being an advisor and mentor.

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 17 18:08:00 2019
    On 03-14-19 06:44, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    So, I played catch-up with Discovery. Season 1 was a little weak,
    Season 2 was so full of easter eggs and references to the old series
    that it resonated well.

    Anson Mount as Christopher Pike is wonderful, funny and animated, interesting since Jeffrey Hunter was allegedly too quiet and
    contemplative in playing Pike. That, apparently, drove them to
    Shatner's portrayal of Kirk.

    Yes, Season 2 is much better. I'm really enjoying it, and it's starting to tie in with the rest of Trek.

    S2E8 was wonderful.

    I'm hooked now.

    Cool! :)


    ... Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the crap.
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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 17 20:07:54 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 17 2019 11:08 am

    Anson Mount as Christopher Pike is wonderful, funny and animated, interesting since Jeffrey Hunter was allegedly too quiet and contemplative in playing Pike. That, apparently, drove them to Shatner's portrayal of Kirk.

    Yes, Season 2 is much better. I'm really enjoying it, and it's starting to tie in with the rest of Trek.

    S2E8 was wonderful.

    Discovery is the Star Trek I've been wanting for a very long time. Season 1 was a good introduction and helped guide our
    understanding of Season 2. Season 3 has already been guaranteed.

    Dream Master

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dream Master on Mon Mar 18 15:25:00 2019
    On 03-17-19 13:07, Dream Master wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Discovery is the Star Trek I've been wanting for a very long time.
    Season 1 was a good introduction and helped guide our understanding of Season 2. Season 3 has already been guaranteed.

    I'm liking where it's going at the moment. :)


    ... Trilogy (n). Series of three books, sometimes more.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dream Master on Mon Mar 18 03:55:08 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 17 2019 01:07 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 17 2019 11:08 am

    Anson Mount as Christopher Pike is wonderful, funny and animated, interesting since Jeffrey Hunter was allegedly too quiet and contemplative in playing Pike. That, apparently, drove them to Shatner's portrayal of Kirk.

    Yes, Season 2 is much better. I'm really enjoying it, and it's starting to tie in with the rest of Trek.

    S2E8 was wonderful.

    Discovery is the Star Trek I've been wanting for a very long time. Season 1 was a good introduction and helped guide our
    understanding of Season 2. Season 3 has already been guaranteed.

    Dream Master


    i really hated that first episode or so, with that asian captain. i hated everything about it. but later one things got better and i'm enjoying it. still, for a prequel they have way too much technology and other additions.

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Mon Mar 18 15:21:59 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 17 2019 01:07 pm

    Discovery is the Star Trek I've been wanting for a very long time. Season

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to MRO on Mon Mar 18 18:24:31 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Dream Master on Sun Mar 17 2019 08:55 pm

    i really hated that first episode or so, with that asian captain. i hated everything about it. but later one things got better and i'm enjoying it. still, for a prequel they have way too much technology and other additions.

    MRO, it provided backstory to Michael's role as well as set Georgiou up for the "Mirror, Mirror" remake. With how they played
    "Mirror, Mirror" into the story arc, it ensured a further explanation as to what was going to happen in later episodes and the new
    season.

    Dream Master

    ---
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to MRO on Tue Mar 19 01:28:56 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Dream Master on Sun Mar 17 2019 08:55 pm

    i really hated that first episode or so, with that asian captain. i hated everything about it. but later one things got better and i'm enjoying it. still, for a prequel they have way too much technology and other additions.

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have her.

    DaiTengu

    ... Schizophrenia rules. OK. OK.

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 06:59:48 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Mon Mar 18 2019 08:21 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 17 2019 01:07 pm

    Discovery is the Star Trek I've been wanting for a very long time. Season

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?



    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the original series.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 07:00:16 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to MRO on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:24 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Dream Master on Sun Mar 17 2019 08:55 pm

    i really hated that first episode or so, with that asian captain. i hated everything about it. but later one things got better and i'm enjoying it. still, for a prequel they have way too much technology and other additions.

    MRO, it provided backstory to Michael's role as well as set Georgiou up for the "Mirror, Mirror" remake. With how they played

    yeah, i saw it. i didnt like it. it was corny and the acting was horrible.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to DaiTengu on Tue Mar 19 06:26:55 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to MRO on Mon Mar 18 2019 06:28 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing. With her role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this is going.



    Dream Master

    ---
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 16:00:44 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:26 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have
    her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing. With her role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this is going.

    She's getting her own spin-off series about Section 13. I guess it's schedule to debut in 2020 sometime.

    DaiTengu

    ... Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tue Mar 19 16:10:48 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:59 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original
    series?

    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the original series.

    I know what you mean. And Star Trek: Enterprise was the same way. Both seem a bit too advanced for the time period they're supposed to be in. But on the flipside, some things they predicted in the original Star Trek in the 60s may actually be a little too primitive for the future..

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 16:25:11 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:26 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have
    her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing. With her role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this is going.

    I think I first saw Michelle Yeoh in the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and I think she's a good actress.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to MRO on Tue Mar 19 20:03:20 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:59 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?

    Why not? Although I shouldn't, Star Wars is essentially a space western while Star Trek is about the human and scientific element put together. When Star Wars 1-3 came out, I was happy to see the backstory but I already knew what was going to happen. With Star Trek, these seasons have no bearing on the future (shows).


    Dream Master

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
  • From Mortifis@VERT/ALLEYCAT to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 23:43:54 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:59 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?

    Why not? Although I shouldn't, Star Wars is essentially a space western while Star Trek is about the human and scientific element put together.
    When Star Wars 1-3 came out, I was happy to see the backstory but I already knew what was going to happen. With Star Trek, these seasons have no bearing on the future (shows).

    Unless you're talking a bout Deep Space 9 the Soap Opera Series ;-)


    The Granny Lane, where seasoned drivers slow down and smell the blacktop roses

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 19:46:08 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 01:03 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original
    series?

    Why not? Although I shouldn't, Star Wars is essentially a space western while Star Trek is about the human and scientific element put together. When Star Wars 1-3 came out, I was happy to see the backstory but I already knew what was going to happen. With Star Trek, these seasons have no bearing on the future (shows).

    You quoted me, but you were replying to mro...

    I've always liked Star Trek, but what I'd rather see is something continuing after 'Nemesis', or something that covers the time between the original series and the Next Generation, perhaps focusing on the Enterprise C or D. I'm getting tired of all the prequels that Hollywood is producing (and reboots). We already had Enterprise, that took place about 100 years before the original series, and now Discovery, which takes place about 10 years before the original series. I suppose Discovery is interesting since it's a different ship and crew, but it's not something I would have chosen to see as the next Star Trek series.
    The Enterprise B and C have each only been shown once in an official Star Trek show or movie, and after such a tease, I'd be curious to see more. Or something continuing the story into the future after the events of Nemesis..

    Nightfox

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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to MRO on Tue Mar 19 20:44:52 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 18 2019 23:59:48

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?

    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the original series.

    To be fair, WE'RE way more advanced than they were on the original series. I don't see anything wrong with the technology aspect of it. What bothers me more is the stuff that mucks with canon. Like the uniforms that we've never seen before, or every third person being intimately familiar with Section 31. Or this whole emotional Spock never having been mentioned. You'd think that this part of his history would've been pretty well documented by Starfleet, and that McCoy, for example, would've been able to access his medical history to see this whole thing. But it doesn't seem like that's the case.

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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 20:52:49 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 12:46:08

    I've always liked Star Trek, but what I'd rather see is something continuing after 'Nemesis', or something that covers the time between the original series and the Next Generation, perhaps focusing on the Enterprise C or D.

    The Enterprise B and C have each only been shown once in an official Star Trek show or movie, and after such a tease, I'd be curious to see more. Or something continuing the story into the future after the events of Nemesis..

    I feel like C isn't entirely worthy of its own series. It didn't last long, and we know where it's headed. B could be interesting to explore, but again... it's an intermediate period.

    I do agree with you in that I'd love to see something NEW, something post-Nemesis. I guess we're getting that with the Picard series, though I'd also like to check out a new crew, a new ship, and an open-ended series where we don't already know how it's going to end. We'll be getting super advanced, though, at that point. Start butting up agains the whole Starfleet timeship nonsense we saw in Voyager and Enterprise and, honestly, I'm a bit tired with the whole time travel thing. I was actually disappointed that the Red Angel in Disco is supposedly a time traveler because can we just focus on something that's happening in the present, and in our own universe, for once? This is Star Trek, not Time Trek or frikkin' Multiverse Trek.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Derision on Tue Mar 19 22:15:08 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 2019 01:52 pm

    The Enterprise B and C have each only been shown once in an official
    Star Trek show or movie, and after such a tease, I'd be curious to see
    more. Or
    something continuing the story into the future after the events of Nemesis.

    I feel like C isn't entirely worthy of its own series. It didn't last long, and we know where it's headed. B could be interesting to explore, but again... it's an intermediate period.

    I had the same thought about the Enterprise C, but that's about all we really know about the Enterprise C. It might still be interesting to see something about its missions/voyages before it met its fate. And that's true about it being an intermediate period, but still, I think there was something like 70-100 years between the original series and the Next Generation. When TNG came out, that was a period they had skipped entirely, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see more of it. I also think the Enterprise B and C are good-looking ships, so from a technical standpoint, I think they could get some good shots of those ships in space, traveling at warp, etc. The Discovery is not so good looking, IMO.

    I do agree with you in that I'd love to see something NEW, something post-Nemesis. I guess we're getting that with the Picard series, though I'd also like to check out a new crew, a new ship, and an open-ended series where we don't already know how it's going to end. We'll be getting super advanced, though, at that point. Start butting up agains the whole

    That would be interesting too.

    Starfleet timeship nonsense we saw in Voyager and Enterprise and, honestly, I'm a bit tired with the whole time travel thing. I was actually

    Yeah, time travel has been used quite a bit, maybe too much.

    disappointed that the Red Angel in Disco is supposedly a time traveler

    Thanks for the spoiler, I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes of Discovery season 2 so far. ;)

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Derision on Tue Mar 19 22:20:16 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 01:44 pm

    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the
    original series.

    To be fair, WE'RE way more advanced than they were on the original series. I don't see anything wrong with the technology aspect of it. What bothers

    True, but making a prequel with more advanced technology doesn't really fit well into the canon. For instance, they had flat-panel computer displays on the Enterprise NX-01 but the Enterprise 1701 had displays that looked like CRTs? It just doesn't fit right.

    me more is the stuff that mucks with canon. Like the uniforms that we've never seen before, or every third person being intimately familiar with Section 31. Or this whole emotional Spock never having been mentioned. You'd think that this part of his history would've been pretty well documented by Starfleet, and that McCoy, for example, would've been able to access his medical history to see this whole thing. But it doesn't seem like that's the case.

    That stuff does seem a bit weird, but I don't think it's entirely implausable. With Discovery, they're telling a story that came before the original series, and how did we know things like Spock's emotional state didn't happen? One thing I do find a bit strange is that Spock never mentioned having an adopted human sister. And they messed with the Klingons (again).

    Nightfox

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 02:36:39 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 12:46 pm

    The Enterprise B and C have each only been shown once in an official Star Trek show or movie, and after such a tease, I'd be curious to see more. Or something continuing the story into the future after the events of Nemesis..

    Hollywood is all about remaking classics. When they did the Star Trek reboot, I wanted to hate it but I couldn't. Releasing a new series that covers Enterprise B or C or something beyond Nemesis would be amazing but, how about we move forward 100 or 150 years. Just imagine what we could get out of it.

    TOS - Loved (even though it was pretty campy)
    TNG - Mostly Loved (everything after season 3)
    DS9 - Hated (couldn't watch it)
    VOY - Loved (once they dumped Kes and introduced 7)
    ENT - Never watched (couldn't get into it)

    From the movies, wasn't a fan of 1, but it was the 70s and you need to forgive everyone being on acid. LOL

    Dream Master

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Wed Mar 20 03:21:41 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 2019 07:36 pm

    Hollywood is all about remaking classics. When they did the Star Trek reboot, I wanted to hate it but I couldn't. Releasing a new series that covers Enterprise B or C or something beyond Nemesis would be amazing but, how about we move forward 100 or 150 years. Just imagine what we could get out of it.

    They skipped about 100 years (I think) between TOS and TNG. But this time, I think they'd have to be more creative in what technology might be available, and it could be more difficult to imagine. Something within existing lore might be easier to do.

    TOS - Loved (even though it was pretty campy)
    TNG - Mostly Loved (everything after season 3)
    DS9 - Hated (couldn't watch it)
    VOY - Loved (once they dumped Kes and introduced 7)
    ENT - Never watched (couldn't get into it)

    I haven't watched much TOS, but I've seen all of TNG and the rest of those. I think TNG was my favorite, especially after season 2 (I think it started to get a lot better with season 3). I wasn't into DS9 much when it came out and didn't watch mutch of it. I watched Voyager, though I thought Voyager was fairly campy. I think Voyager had some good episodes though. I later watched all of DS9 end enjoyed it, and watched Enterprise later and enjoyed it too (except I thought season 3 wasn't the best).

    From the movies, wasn't a fan of 1, but it was the 70s and you need to forgive everyone being on acid. LOL

    Yeah, the first Star Trek movie was a bit drawn-out and not the most exciting. For the TOS movies, many people say the even-numbered movies are better than the odd ones. My favorites were the Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, Generations, and First Contact. I think Nemesis was bad and wish it never happened. :P

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 06:19:39 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 09:25 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:26 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have
    her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing. With her role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this is going.

    I think I first saw Michelle Yeoh in the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and I think she's a good actress.


    well she was playing the part like a kindergarten teacher. i found those episodes with her in it hard to digest.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Mortifis on Wed Mar 20 06:20:41 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mortifis to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 04:43 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:59 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original series?

    Why not? Although I shouldn't, Star Wars is essentially a space western while Star Trek is about the human and scientific element put together. When Star Wars 1-3 came out, I was happy to see the backstory but I already knew what was going to happen. With Star Trek, these seasons have no bearing on the future (shows).

    Unless you're talking a bout Deep Space 9 the Soap Opera Series ;-)



    i liked most things about ds9, but i didnt like jake.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Derision on Wed Mar 20 06:22:47 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 01:44 pm

    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the original series.

    To be fair, WE'RE way more advanced than they were on the original series. I


    i wouldnt say that. we dont have a tricorder, we cant travel to other galaxies like they can. i'm not fucking any green women

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  • From Brokenmind@VERT/TIABBS to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 17:22:01 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 09:10 am


    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the
    original series.

    I agree that both seemed to be to advanced also but it seems like they are changing so much but i understand the reasoning also

    Brokenmind

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed Mar 20 16:49:11 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 2019 11:19 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have
    her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when
    she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing.
    With her role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this
    is going.

    I think I first saw Michelle Yeoh in the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden
    Dragon, and I think she's a good actress.

    well she was playing the part like a kindergarten teacher. i found those episodes with her in it hard to digest.

    I was just talking about her acting in general.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Brokenmind on Wed Mar 20 16:49:48 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Brokenmind to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 2019 10:22 am

    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the
    original series.

    I agree that both seemed to be to advanced also but it seems like they are changing so much but i understand the reasoning also

    I'm the wrong person to reply to for this.. You quoted mro but you were replying to me..

    Nightfox

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 21:27:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 12:46 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 01:03 pm

    Did you really want a Star Trek set 10 years before the original
    series?

    Why not? Although I shouldn't, Star Wars is essentially a space western while Star Trek is about the human and scientific element put together. When Star Wars 1-3 came out, I was happy to see the backstory but I already knew what was going to happen. With Star Trek, these seasons ha no bearing on the future (shows).

    You quoted me, but you were replying to mro...

    I've always liked Star Trek, but what I'd rather see is something continuing after 'Nemesis', or something that covers the time between the original seri and the Next Generation, perhaps focusing on the Enterprise C or D. I'm getting tired of all the prequels that Hollywood is producing (and reboots). We already had Enterprise, that took place about 100 years before the origin series, and now Discovery, which takes place about 10 years before the origi series. I suppose Discovery is interesting since it's a different ship and crew, but it's not something I would have chosen to see as the next Star Tre series.
    The Enterprise B and C have each only been shown once in an official Star Tr show or movie, and after such a tease, I'd be curious to see more. Or something continuing the story into the future after the events of Nemesis..

    Nightfox

    In some cases i think some of the new ideas for shows can be very derivative
    of existing series such as the Trek franchise, so they fudged it into the franchise. It's like how the TV series Caprica was supposed to be a prequel
    to Battlestar Galactica, however the content of it seems more like a story about VR and AI getting sold under the BSG label.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to MRO on Wed Mar 20 21:33:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Mar 19 2019 11:19 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Tue Mar 19 2019 09:25 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 18 2019 11:26 pm

    Michelle Yeoh is a goddamn treasure and Discovery is lucky to have
    her.

    I agree. Her ability to play the character the first season when she was re-introduced in the "Mirror, Mirror" clone was amazing. With he role in the second season, I'm anxious to see where this is going.

    I think I first saw Michelle Yeoh in the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and I think she's a good actress.


    well she was playing the part like a kindergarten teacher. i found those episodes with her in it hard to digest.

    Fist movie I saw Michelle Yeoh in was the James Bond film where she played the Chinese counterpart to James Bond.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Brokenmind on Thu Mar 21 03:31:05 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Brokenmind to Nightfox on Wed Mar 20 2019 10:22 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Mar 19 2019 09:10 am


    they are so advanced it's not even like it's 10 years before the
    original series.

    I agree that both seemed to be to advanced also but it seems like they are changing so much but i understand the reasoning also

    Brokenmind


    yesterday online i read one explaination that these group of klingons were separate from the regular batch and that explains their physical traits. so essentially they were more pure from the group of kingons that looked more
    like earth people. i'm not so sure that's accurate.

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 20:38:00 2019
    On 03-19-19 15:15, Nightfox wrote to Derision <=-

    I had the same thought about the Enterprise C, but that's about all we really know about the Enterprise C. It might still be interesting to
    see something about its missions/voyages before it met its fate. And that's true about it being an intermediate period, but still, I think there was something like 70-100 years between the original series and

    There's a number of events that happened in this period that could be explored, like the treaty with the Romulans, which banned the Federation from developing cloaking technology, for one. What were the circumstances surround that? And I'm sure there were other significant events during the Enterprise B or C eras that could be explored in more detail.

    the Next Generation. When TNG came out, that was a period they had skipped entirely, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see more
    of it. I also think the Enterprise B and C are good-looking ships, so from a technical standpoint, I think they could get some good shots of those ships in space, traveling at warp, etc. The Discovery is not so good looking, IMO.

    Discovery would make a good pizza cutter though. :D

    I do agree with you in that I'd love to see something NEW, something post-Nemesis. I guess we're getting that with the Picard series, though I'd also like to check out a new crew, a new ship, and an open-ended series where we don't already know how it's going to end. We'll be getting super advanced, though, at that point. Start butting up agains the whole

    That would be interesting too.

    Yes, it would. There's the birth of regular time travel (in use by historians by the 26th century), which no doubt would have a lot of issues surrpunding it.

    And I quite liked the idea of the "Federation" series that was floated once years ago, set around the 30th centure, with the Federation in decline and entering a crisis that forces it to rediscover itself.

    Starfleet timeship nonsense we saw in Voyager and Enterprise and, honestly, I'm a bit tired with the whole time travel thing. I was actually

    Yeah, time travel has been used quite a bit, maybe too much.

    disappointed that the Red Angel in Disco is supposedly a time traveler

    Thanks for the spoiler, I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes
    of Discovery season 2 so far. ;)

    Oops. :D


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 20:41:00 2019
    On 03-19-19 15:20, Nightfox wrote to Derision <=-

    True, but making a prequel with more advanced technology doesn't really fit well into the canon. For instance, they had flat-panel computer displays on the Enterprise NX-01 but the Enterprise 1701 had displays
    that looked like CRTs? It just doesn't fit right.

    That's the hard part about doing a prequel decades later. As a kid, the original (NCC-1701) Enterprise looked futuristic, but 40 years later, it looks decidedly obsolete, even compared to today's technology, let alone what we'd imagine the future to look like.

    That stuff does seem a bit weird, but I don't think it's entirely implausable. With Discovery, they're telling a story that came before
    the original series, and how did we know things like Spock's emotional state didn't happen? One thing I do find a bit strange is that Spock never mentioned having an adopted human sister. And they messed with
    the Klingons (again).

    There's no reason they couldn't have gone back to having the Klingons look more like TOS era Klingons, since that has already been explained in canon. While not as visually spectacular, it makes more logical sense.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dream Master on Thu Mar 21 20:49:00 2019
    On 03-19-19 19:36, Dream Master wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Hollywood is all about remaking classics. When they did the Star Trek

    AKA "lack of imagination". :)

    reboot, I wanted to hate it but I couldn't. Releasing a new series
    that covers Enterprise B or C or something beyond Nemesis would be
    amazing but, how about we move forward 100 or 150 years. Just imagine what we could get out of it.

    As for the reboot movies, the first one was good as a movie, but it didn't feel like Trek, except that the casting was very good. The second one was OK, though Khan and the augments have been done to death now (Space Seed and Wrath of Khan are hard to beat together as a bigger story). I found the third reboot movie mostly dull for a movie.

    TOS - Loved (even though it was pretty campy)

    Me too - it was a product of the 60s, afterall.

    TNG - Mostly Loved (everything after season 3)

    Loved TNG.

    DS9 - Hated (couldn't watch it)

    DS9 started slow, but found its feet by season 3 and kept getting better.

    VOY - Loved (once they dumped Kes and introduced 7)

    I loved Voyager as well.

    ENT - Never watched (couldn't get into it)

    Started a bit slow, though watching it a few times, the early episodes get more meaning. ENT finished well, except for the last episode. It's a pity it didn't go at least another season.

    From the movies, wasn't a fan of 1, but it was the 70s and you need to forgive everyone being on acid. LOL

    I didn't mind 1, but of the TOS era movies, the even numbered ones were the better ones for some reason. 5 was just plain silly, loved 2, 4 and 6. The best of the TNG era was First Contact, which was very good too. I didn't mind the others.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 05:33:48 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 2019 01:38 pm

    disappointed that the Red Angel in Disco is supposedly a time traveler

    Thanks for the spoiler, I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes of Discovery season 2 so far. ;)

    Oops. :D


    yeah, we should probably keep it vague due to the nature of the tv show's availability and a lot of people are catching up on it via binge watching.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 04:29:58 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 2019 01:38 pm

    Discovery would make a good pizza cutter though. :D

    Someone actually makes a USS Enterprise pizza cutter that you can buy: https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/dea2/

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Fri Mar 22 02:49:00 2019
    On 03-20-19 22:33, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    yeah, we should probably keep it vague due to the nature of the tv
    show's availability and a lot of people are catching up on it via binge watching.

    Or if we must, do something like:

    SPOILER ALERT (season, episode). If you don't want to know, skip this message. .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    blah blah spoiler, etc.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Fri Mar 22 02:50:00 2019
    On 03-20-19 21:29, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 2019 01:38 pm

    Discovery would make a good pizza cutter though. :D

    Someone actually makes a USS Enterprise pizza cutter that you can buy: https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/dea2/

    Yeah, I have seen that. :)


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 16:16:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 2019 01:38 pm

    On 03-19-19 15:15, Nightfox wrote to Derision <=-

    I had the same thought about the Enterprise C, but that's about all we really know about the Enterprise C. It might still be interesting to see something about its missions/voyages before it met its fate. And that's true about it being an intermediate period, but still, I think there was something like 70-100 years between the original series and

    There's a number of events that happened in this period that could be explor like the treaty with the Romulans, which banned the Federation from developi cloaking technology, for one. What were the circumstances surround that? A I'm sure there were other significant events during the Enterprise B or C er that could be explored in more detail.

    the Next Generation. When TNG came out, that was a period they had skipped entirely, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see more of it. I also think the Enterprise B and C are good-looking ships, so from a technical standpoint, I think they could get some good shots of those ships in space, traveling at warp, etc. The Discovery is not so good looking, IMO.

    Discovery would make a good pizza cutter though. :D

    I do agree with you in that I'd love to see something NEW, something post-Nemesis. I guess we're getting that with the Picard series, though I'd also like to check out a new crew, a new ship, and an open-ended series where we don't already know how it's going to end. We'll be gett super advanced, though, at that point. Start butting up agains the whol

    That would be interesting too.

    Yes, it would. There's the birth of regular time travel (in use by historia by the 26th century), which no doubt would have a lot of issues surrpunding

    And I quite liked the idea of the "Federation" series that was floated once years ago, set around the 30th centure, with the Federation in decline and entering a crisis that forces it to rediscover itself.

    Starfleet timeship nonsense we saw in Voyager and Enterprise and, honestly, I'm a bit tired with the whole time travel thing. I was actua

    Yeah, time travel has been used quite a bit, maybe too much.

    disappointed that the Red Angel in Disco is supposedly a time traveler

    Thanks for the spoiler, I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes of Discovery season 2 so far. ;)

    Oops. :D


    ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
    Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda series was sort of a "what if" a Federation type system fell into collapse, and a captain and his ship from the golden era reappeared 300 years later.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 17:04:52 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Dream Master on Thu Mar 21 2019 01:49 pm

    As for the reboot movies, the first one was good as a movie, but it didn't feel like Trek, except that the casting was very good. The second one was OK, though Khan and the augments have been done to death now (Space Seed and Wrath of Khan are hard to beat together as a bigger story). I found the third reboot movie mostly dull for a movie.

    I'm not sure I'd say the augments have been done to death. Space Seed, Wrath of Khan, and a few episodes in Enterprise are the only things I remember that deal with the augments. The Borg, though, is one thing I think was done to death in Voyager.

    Nightfox

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thu Mar 21 23:41:18 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 2019 09:16 am

    Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda series was sort of a "what if" a Federation type system fell into collapse, and a captain and his ship from the golden era reappeared 300 years later.

    With all of the time travel and reboots, someone could make the alternate timeline where the dominion won the war (as per Dr. Bashir and associate's predictions) and an uprising begins on earth hundreds of years in the future.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 23:42:14 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 21 2019 10:04 am

    I'm not sure I'd say the augments have been done to death. Space Seed, Wrath of Khan, and a few episodes in Enterprise are the only things I remember that deal with the augments. The Borg, though, is one thing I think was done to death in Voyager.

    But, augments versus Borg - I'd watch that!

    ... Do you have access to your previous configuration?

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 22 02:01:51 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Mar 21 2019 04:42 pm

    But, augments versus Borg - I'd watch that!

    Borg: You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
    Khan: To the last I grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.


    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Mar 24 14:51:00 2019
    On 03-21-19 09:16, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda series was sort of a "what if" a
    Federation type system fell into collapse, and a captain and his ship
    from the golden era reappeared 300 years later.

    Another good series. I enjoyed Andromeda too. And yes, that does somewhat fit the bill.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Mar 24 15:16:00 2019
    On 03-21-19 10:04, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm not sure I'd say the augments have been done to death. Space Seed, Wrath of Khan, and a few episodes in Enterprise are the only things I remember that deal with the augments. The Borg, though, is one thing I think was done to death in Voyager.

    Difference is they didn't redo the meeting of the Borg over and over. :)

    Enterprise showed how to do something different with the augments.


    ... Tech support: Do you see your cursor? Caller: No, I am here all alone. --- MultiMail/Linux v0.51
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 24 16:13:00 2019
    On 03-21-19 16:41, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Moondog <=-

    With all of the time travel and reboots, someone could make the
    alternate timeline where the dominion won the war (as per Dr. Bashir
    and associate's predictions) and an uprising begins on earth hundreds
    of years in the future.

    While not exactly canon, this could work really well.


    ... Useless Invention: Ejector seats for helicopters.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 24 16:13:00 2019
    On 03-21-19 16:42, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nightfox <=-

    But, augments versus Borg - I'd watch that!

    Now there's a showdown! :D


    ... Useless Invention: Ejector seats for helicopters.
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  • From Brokenmind@VERT/TIABBS to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 24 14:09:32 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Sun Mar 24 2019 07:51 am

    Another good series. I enjoyed Andromeda too. And yes, that does somewhat


    I also enjoyed Andromeda also. I loved Star Trek , STG , SB5 also but i also really loved Babylon 5.... I actually have that entire series on vudu. I also liked Battlestar Galactica

    Brokenmind

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 16:44:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Brokenmind to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 24 2019 07:09 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Sun Mar 24 2019 07:51 am

    Another good series. I enjoyed Andromeda too. And yes, that does somewh


    I also enjoyed Andromeda also. I loved Star Trek , STG , SB5 also but i also really loved Babylon 5.... I actually have that entire series on vudu. I als liked Battlestar Galactica

    Brokenmind

    Which version of BSG? I liked the original because it was the classic TV
    space opera with established TV cliche's, but I also liked the reboot because it took the series in a ddiferent direction. The latter part of the series ap peared to suffer from either lack of attention span from the writers or they ran out of steam when trying to tie things up.

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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Moondog on Mon Mar 25 20:34:40 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 2019 09:44 am

    Which version of BSG? I liked the original because it was the classic TV space opera with established TV cliche's, but I also liked the reboot because it took the series in a ddiferent direction. The latter part of the series ap peared to suffer from either lack of attention span from the writers or they ran out of steam when trying to tie things up.

    The writers (or whateer you want to call it) wanted to keep it running for another two seasons (go to six) to allow the original Cylons to develop their own characters. When SyFy (or whatever they want to call it) felt that the viewership was dropping (their own fault), they moved it to four seasons. Athough they did a great job tidying everything up, the last half of the forth season really made it for me but also screwed up the narrative.

    Oh well... then again, Caprica was great and ended too soon.

    Dream Master

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 16:48:00 2019
    On 03-24-19 07:09, Brokenmind wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I also enjoyed Andromeda also. I loved Star Trek , STG , SB5 also but i also really loved Babylon 5.... I actually have that entire series on vudu. I also liked Battlestar Galactica

    Absolutely love B5, watch that over and over again (got the DVDs). I couldn't get into the (new) Battlestar Galactica. I found it rather dull for the most part, and couldn't get past the second season.


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  • From Derision@VERT/AMIGAC to Vk3jed on Tue Mar 26 02:09:57 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 2019 09:48:00

    I also enjoyed Andromeda also. I loved Star Trek , STG , SB5 also but i also really loved Babylon 5.... I actually have that entire series on vudu. I also liked Battlestar Galactica

    Absolutely love B5, watch that over and over again (got the DVDs). I couldn't get into the (new) Battlestar Galactica. I found it rather dull for the most part, and couldn't get past the second season.

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Tue Mar 26 00:35:00 2019
    Dream Master wrote to Moondog <=-

    Oh well... then again, Caprica was great and ended too soon.

    Yeah, between casting out a wide net in the first season to see which
    way to go and the extended hiatuses between half-seasons, it was
    impossible to get any traction.

    I liked the premise, and liked that they were able to wrap it up the
    way they did - but would have liked a season or two more to explore
    some of the concepts of sentience they brushed on.



    ... Assemble some of the elements in a group and treat the group
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Vk3jed on Tue Mar 26 07:00:48 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 2019 09:48 am

    Absolutely love B5, watch that over and over again (got the DVDs). I couldn't get into the (new) Battlestar Galactica. I found it rather dull for the most part, and couldn't get past the second season.


    it has some depressing parts that go on for a long time but i love to binge watch bsg once a year.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Derision on Tue Mar 26 07:05:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 25 2019 07:09 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 2019 09:48:00

    I also enjoyed Andromeda also. I loved Star Trek , STG , SB5 also bu also really loved Babylon 5.... I actually have that entire series o vudu. I also liked Battlestar Galactica

    Absolutely love B5, watch that over and over again (got the DVDs). I couldn't get into the (new) Battlestar Galactica. I found it rather dull for the most part, and couldn't get past the second season.

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    I was a big fan of the 5 year story arc on B5, however the series suffered
    once the Vorlon/ Shadow story arc was over. B5 was a great example of
    having a solid thought-through story line. Way too often a mystery is
    created with no resolution and the game begins creating two more questions
    for every question answered. Lost fell in that category, and BSG did too.

    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Derision on Tue Mar 26 14:17:00 2019
    Derision wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    I never watched B5 much when it was out, but have watched it now and
    then. I enjoy the story, but I keep trying to figure out where the
    Star Trek universe was when it occurs (I was much more into Star Trek,
    still am...)

    As for the effects, it's like watching The Last Starfighter and
    realizing how cheesy the effects were. Then again, we were entertained
    by garbage cans chanting "EX-TER-MI-NATE!" in the old Doctor Who
    series, so you're right that a good show is all about the story and
    the characters in the end.



    ... What do you think of the guests?
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to MRO on Tue Mar 26 14:19:00 2019
    MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    it has some depressing parts that go on for a long time but i love to binge watch bsg once a year.


    I could watch the premiere, 33, the episode with the arrival of the
    Pegasus, the breakout from New Caprica and the last 2 episodes over
    and over again. Some of the story lines did go on too long, thinking
    of Boomer and Helo on Caprica...



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Tue Mar 26 14:20:00 2019
    Moondog wrote to Derision <=-

    mystery is created with no resolution and the game begins creating two more questions for every question answered. Lost fell in that
    category, and BSG did too.

    One of the interesting ideas they floated for BSG was to have the
    Galactica crash-land on earth and have present day man discover it
    buried in Africa. That would have been an interesting story.





    ... Do you know where you are?
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  • From Brokenmind@VERT/TIABBS to Moondog on Tue Mar 26 19:58:09 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Brokenmind on Mon Mar 25 2019 09:44 am

    Which version of BSG? I liked the original because it was the classic TV space opera with established TV cliche's, but I also liked the reboot because it took the series in a ddiferent direction. The latter part of the series ap peared to suffer from either lack of attention span from the writers or they ran out of steam when trying to tie things up.
    I liked the original better but I also enjoyed the reboot for the most part but i agree with you near the end of the reboot it did seem to run out of steam and to be honest i did not like the ending..

    Brokenmind

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Derision on Wed Mar 27 03:10:00 2019
    On 03-25-19 19:09, Derision wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    Yes, the effects were cutting edge for the day, but technology has moved on. But the storytelling will live on, and that's what makes B5 so awesome.


    ... Screw up your courage! You've screwed up everything else.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to MRO on Wed Mar 27 03:11:00 2019
    On 03-26-19 00:00, MRO wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    it has some depressing parts that go on for a long time but i love to binge watch bsg once a year.

    I found it was more dull than depressing.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Wed Mar 27 04:08:00 2019
    On 03-25-19 09:44, Moondog wrote to Brokenmind <=-

    Which version of BSG? I liked the original because it was the classic
    TV space opera with established TV cliche's, but I also liked the

    I liked the original BSG.

    reboot because it took the series in a ddiferent direction. The latter part of the series ap peared to suffer from either lack of attention
    span from the writers or they ran out of steam when trying to tie
    things up.

    Yeah just couldn't get into the reboot.


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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Derision on Wed Mar 27 06:45:11 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 25 2019 19:09:57

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    Those were the days.... Amiga 2000 video toaster and Novell Netware :) Only for that I respect and enjoy B5... even today.

    I had an Amiga 2000 with Video Toaster back in the days... and Novell Netware. Nice memories. I have a 2000 now and a 4000 in my retro collection. Love it. The video capabilities were unbelievable for that era.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 27 16:33:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Tue Mar 26 2019 07:20 am

    Moondog wrote to Derision <=-

    mystery is created with no resolution and the game begins creating two more questions for every question answered. Lost fell in that category, and BSG did too.

    One of the interesting ideas they floated for BSG was to have the
    Galactica crash-land on earth and have present day man discover it
    buried in Africa. That would have been an interesting story.





    ... Do you know where you are?
    Forgot where I heard it, but at one time there was an idea to resurrect the ol rd BSG with a prequel series that leads into a successor series which centers on the first colony on Earth and the discovery of the colnist ship on the bottom of the ocean. The lead-in for the series would be where Galactica
    1980 left off, where instead of finding a civilization that matched their
    own, the refugee fleet finds 20th century level man. Their scientists
    discover evidence of the demise, which happens to be an Atlantis derivative story, the ship was abandoned yet salavable either on Earth or in space. My guess is the Stargate franchise killed this because they had cornered the market on Chariot of the Gods mythology, and it would appear to be another Sta rgate knockoff.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 16:43:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Derision on Tue Mar 26 2019 11:45 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Derision to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 25 2019 19:09:57

    Babylon 5 was my jam back in the day. Loved that show. Watched it recently, some of the effects don't really hold up, but it's still an amazing, character-driven series.

    Those were the days.... Amiga 2000 video toaster and Novell Netware :) Only that I respect and enjoy B5... even today.

    I had an Amiga 2000 with Video Toaster back in the days... and Novell Netwar Nice memories. I have a 2000 now and a 4000 in my retro collection. Love it. The video capabilities were unbelievable for that era.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    I still find it amazing the quality of animation and visual effects created by
    consumer grade hardware and software. I've been watching some Trek fan fiction lately and some of the productions are very well done. I've run into
    a few that rely heavily on green screen backdrops, and some take awhile to
    tell apart from practical effects.

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 16:01:33 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Derision on Tue Mar 26 2019 11:45 pm

    Those were the days.... Amiga 2000 video toaster and Novell Netware :) Only for that I respect and enjoy B5... even today.

    I had an Amiga 2000 with Video Toaster back in the days... and Novell Netware. Nice memories. I have a 2000 now and a 4000 in my retro collection. Love it. The video capabilities were unbelievable for that era. HAWKEYE

    I never really used Amiga very much back in the day, but sometimes I've thought it might be fun to collect some retro computers in working condition.. But then, I'm not sure what I'd use them for, and I'd rather not have stuff like that taking up space in my house..

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 16:45:00 2019
    Hawkeye wrote to Derision <=-

    I had an Amiga 2000 with Video Toaster back in the days... and Novell Netware. Nice memories. I have a 2000 now and a 4000 in my retro collection. Love it. The video capabilities were unbelievable for that era. HAWKEYE

    Loved Novell Netware. Hated SCSI back then, but a properly tuned array
    on Novell with Elevator seeking was a beauty to behold.



    ... Have you ever seen anything like this place?
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Mar 27 19:50:02 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 2019 09:45 am

    Loved Novell Netware. Hated SCSI back then, but a properly tuned array
    on Novell with Elevator seeking was a beauty to behold.

    I remember SCSI being fairly high-end back in the day. For a long time I wanted to "upgrade" from IDE to SCSI, and in the late 90s I bought an Adaptec PCI SCSI controller (I think it was an Ultra SCSI 160) and I think a 4GB hard hard drive to use with it. I felt like it was at least a little faster than IDE, and I had heard SCSI was supposed to be fairly reliable too. But in the end, I think SCSI was just too expensive, and SCSI seems to have been totally replaced by SATA now. Also with SATA, I think the cables are cleaner. It's nice not to have to deal with ribbon cables anymore.. And I seem to remember my SCSI cable having 7 drive connectors on it (which all needed to be tucked away if only using one drive), and SCSI also required a terminator on the end of the cable.

    I was just looking up SCSI Ultra160 again, and the page I found says the SCSI Ultra160 standard is able to achieve up to 80MB/second. Seems funny now, since I've seen file copy speeds up to around 120MB/second going over my gigabit network at home.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Moondog on Thu Mar 28 05:16:17 2019
    I still find it amazing the quality of animation and visual effects created by
    consumer grade hardware and software. I've been watching some Trek fan fiction lately and some of the productions are very well done. I've run into a few that rely heavily on green screen backdrops, and some take awhile to tell apart from practical effects.

    In those days the Amiga 2000 was not consumer grade, it was professional. The national broadcast companies used Amiga 2000s with Video Toasters, those were 20k per machine. Back then the 8 MB upgrade would cost 1000 USD while PCs had 1 or 2 MB max. Yes, the Amiga 500 and 2000 could also be used for gaming but the expansion cards you could buy were really for professionals, look also at NASA using 2000, 2500, 3000 and 4000s.

    They were versatile machines.

    Nowadays we can with the power of the processors do a lot with software. Look Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro.

    ---
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 05:18:56 2019
    I never really used Amiga very much back in the day, but sometimes I've thought it might be fun to collect some retro
    computers in working condition.. But then, I'm not sure what I'd use them for, and I'd rather not have stuff like that taking up
    space in my house..

    I used it for video editing and gaming :) They take a lot of space indeed... if you dont have a nostalgic reason or use for them don't collect it, but some even do it for investment. Prices go up very fast nowadays. If you can find on cheap or free why not.

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 28 15:14:00 2019
    On 03-27-19 09:45, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Hawkeye <=-

    Loved Novell Netware. Hated SCSI back then, but a properly tuned array
    on Novell with Elevator seeking was a beauty to behold.

    I think everyone loved Novell, it was pretty robust. As for SCSI, I never really had any problems with it. Providing you got your cabling and terminations right, no dramas. I used a fair bit of SCSI in the late 90s/early 200os at work for servers, which were initially Windows boxes, but more Linux crept in over time. The Novell server I hardly touched, because it "just worked", until it was decommissioned when we streamlined the network and went to IP only.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 15:21:00 2019
    On 03-27-19 12:50, Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I remember SCSI being fairly high-end back in the day. For a long time
    I wanted to "upgrade" from IDE to SCSI, and in the late 90s I bought an Adaptec PCI SCSI controller (I think it was an Ultra SCSI 160) and I
    think a 4GB hard hard drive to use with it. I felt like it was at
    least a little faster than IDE, and I had heard SCSI was supposed to be

    If you bought 7200 RPM drives, you could get a bit better transfer speeds, and I think SCSI had other efficiencies.

    fairly reliable too. But in the end, I think SCSI was just too
    expensive, and SCSI seems to have been totally replaced by SATA now.

    Yeah, SCSI cost quite a bit.

    Also with SATA, I think the cables are cleaner. It's nice not to have
    to deal with ribbon cables anymore.. And I seem to remember my SCSI
    cable having 7 drive connectors on it (which all needed to be tucked
    away if only using one drive), and SCSI also required a terminator on
    the end of the cable.

    SATA cabling is a breeze, much neater than SCSI. Yes, SCSI required termination. IIRC, the later Adaptec cards had auto termination - they could work out whether the card needed to have a terminator or not, which simplified things. Prior to that, one had to set the jumpers accordingly.

    I was just looking up SCSI Ultra160 again, and the page I found says
    the SCSI Ultra160 standard is able to achieve up to 80MB/second. Seems funny now, since I've seen file copy speeds up to around 120MB/second going over my gigabit network at home.

    Yep, technology marches along. :)


    ... Diets are for those who are thick and tired of it.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 28 00:20:58 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 2019 08:21 am

    If you bought 7200 RPM drives, you could get a bit better transfer speeds, and I think SCSI had other efficiencies.

    Was that true even compared to 7200 RPM IDE drives? I typically always bought 7200 RPM drives for the speed.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Thu Mar 28 00:26:42 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Wed Mar 27 2019 10:16 pm

    In those days the Amiga 2000 was not consumer grade, it was professional. The national broadcast companies used Amiga 2000s with Video Toasters, those were 20k per machine. Back then the 8 MB upgrade would cost 1000 USD

    I think it's interesting what was considered consumer grade vs. professional, and that they charged so much more money for what was considered "professional". These days, pretty much anyone can record and edit a video and put it up on YouTube - Is that because the technology has become cheaper, or we just don't need all the extra hardware that was involved with something like Video Toaster for the Amiga? And sometimes I wonder if they just charged more money by calling it "professional" because they could get away with that.

    Nowadays we can with the power of the processors do a lot with software. Look Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro.

    I would often prefer a hardware-based solution so as not to tax the CPU too much. One instance is when PC motherbaords started including audio onboard, I seem to remember reading that they were often codec-based and required more in the software to process the audio, compared to a dedicated sound card. These days I'm not sure if that's still the case, or if it really matters much with today's CPUs. It looks like many motherboards use Realtek audio chips, and I'm not sure how much of the audio processing for those is done in the hardware or software these days. I've seen some motherboards with onboard Sound Blaster audio and I wonder how much better that solution is compared to Realtek.
    I had an Asus Xonar Xense audio card in my current PC, and I'm in the process of building a new PC - I think I'm just going to use the onboard audio in the new one and see how that goes.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 22:04:00 2019
    On 03-27-19 17:20, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Was that true even compared to 7200 RPM IDE drives? I typically always bought 7200 RPM drives for the speed.

    I'm going back a bit, when SCSI tended to get the higher performance gear
    irst.


    ... These mating rituals you humans indulge in are quite disgusting.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 06:17:27 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Vk3jed on Wed Mar 27 2019 05:20 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 2019 08:21 am

    If you bought 7200 RPM drives, you could get a bit better transfer speeds, and I think SCSI had other efficiencies.

    Was that true even compared to 7200 RPM IDE drives? I typically always bought 7200 RPM drives for the speed.



    scsi was always faster. i had 4 of them and loved 'em. times were different back then and i had problems finding a terminator for them.
    very fast. and a bit noisey. mine were sort of high pitched buzzy. reeerrr

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hawkeye on Thu Mar 28 16:19:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Wed Mar 27 2019 10:16 pm

    I still find it amazing the quality of animation and visual effects create by
    consumer grade hardware and software. I've been watching some Trek fan fiction lately and some of the productions are very well done. I've run i a few that rely heavily on green screen backdrops, and some take awhile to tell apart from practical effects.

    In those days the Amiga 2000 was not consumer grade, it was professional. Th national broadcast companies used Amiga 2000s with Video Toasters, those wer 20k per machine. Back then the 8 MB upgrade would cost 1000 USD while PCs ha or 2 MB max. Yes, the Amiga 500 and 2000 could also be used for gaming but t expansion cards you could buy were really for professionals, look also at NA using 2000, 2500, 3000 and 4000s.

    They were versatile machines.

    Nowadays we can with the power of the processors do a lot with software. Loo Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro.

    I agree at the time th Amiga 2000 was a premium workstation, however the line between commercial and consumer grade is questionable. It's nearest
    competitor was probably an Ampex system running for $75,000. Where I was
    going with the commercial comment iswith regards to modern day consumer
    grade equipment.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 16:39:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 2019 05:26 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Wed Mar 27 2019 10:16 pm

    In those days the Amiga 2000 was not consumer grade, it was professiona The national broadcast companies used Amiga 2000s with Video Toasters, those were 20k per machine. Back then the 8 MB upgrade would cost 1000

    I think it's interesting what was considered consumer grade vs. professional and that they charged so much more money for what was considered "professional". These days, pretty much anyone can record and edit a video put it up on YouTube - Is that because the technology has become cheaper, or just don't need all the extra hardware that was involved with something like Video Toaster for the Amiga? And sometimes I wonder if they just charged mo money by calling it "professional" because they could get away with that.

    Nowadays we can with the power of the processors do a lot with software Look Adobe Premiere or Final Cut Pro.

    I would often prefer a hardware-based solution so as not to tax the CPU too much. One instance is when PC motherbaords started including audio onboard, seem to remember reading that they were often codec-based and required more the software to process the audio, compared to a dedicated sound card. Thes days I'm not sure if that's still the case, or if it really matters much wit today's CPUs. It looks like many motherboards use Realtek audio chips, and not sure how much of the audio processing for those is done in the hardware software these days. I've seen some motherboards with onboard Sound Blaster audio and I wonder how much better that solution is compared to Realtek.
    I had an Asus Xonar Xense audio card in my current PC, and I'm in the proces of building a new PC - I think I'm just going to use the onboard audio in th new one and see how that goes.

    Nightfox

    30 years ago I was working at a video production studio at the junior college I was attending during the school year to learn as well as help pay for
    school. My degree was in electronics, but I had an interest in
    communications. The equipment we had in the studio was donated from a local c orporation that had their own video production studio for producing training films and other promotional media. Anyways, the majority of the gear was
    only 10 years old. Still high grade stuff, but late 70's stuff nonetheless. It was close enough to what the local network affiliates were using. My boss and I discussed computers and video on occasion, and at the time there was nothing in the same price range and the video toaster and Amiga, and the only player in the computer market that the industry was using was IBM PC's connected to external hardware in the $100,000 range. Even then the PC was more or less a controller rather than an integral part of the system.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Vk3jed on Thu Mar 28 13:13:00 2019
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think everyone loved Novell, it was pretty robust.

    What killed Novell, IMO, were the seat license fees. It was expensive
    and worked amazingly well. Windows came around nowhere as reliable but comparatively cheap, and momentum shifted.

    As for SCSI, I
    never really had any problems with it. Providing you got your cabling
    and terminations right, no dramas.

    True - my problems with SCSI were with mis-matched consumer-grade
    stuff on Mac, whereas running SCSI on a server where you're not mixing
    and matching brands and external/internal devices was a different
    beast.

    Picture my Mac IIci with a 1GB external hard drive, 2GB DDS tape
    drive, Syquest drive and a CD-ROM, with all of those centronics cables
    daisy chaining the devices. You'd have to have them in a specific
    order or else it wouldn't work.






    I used a fair bit of SCSI in the
    late 90s/early 200os at work for servers, which were initially Windows boxes, but more Linux crept in over time. The Novell server I hardly touched, because it "just worked", until it was decommissioned when we streamlined the network and went to IP only.


    ... You may start by impressing - _ME_ !! - Worf
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Moondog on Fri Mar 29 05:31:54 2019
    I agree at the time th Amiga 2000 was a premium workstation, however the line between commercial and consumer grade is questionable. It's nearest competitor was probably an Ampex system running for $75,000. Where I was going with the commercial comment iswith regards to modern day consumer
    grade equipment.

    I agree the price of the Amiga computer was very low compared to the competitors but many expansions were expensive and purely for professional usage. I can't remember any non professional system that support U-matic and 1 inch and recording format on their video toaster and genlock, Amiga did with the proper expansions. Maybe now we call the big box amigas with those expansions enthousiast or prosumer products like modern workstation indeed do.

    That was also why I love the Amiga 2000. It was basically an Amiga 500 with featuring expansion board/bays. Even today they bring new cards out with new features like network, ide, sata, usb, etc... amazing.

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 29 05:39:35 2019
    I think it's interesting what was considered consumer grade vs. professional, and that they charged so much more money for what was considered "professional". These days, pretty much anyone can record and edit a video and put it up on YouTube - Is that because the technology has become cheaper, or we just don't need all the extra hardware that was involved with something like Video Toaster for the Amiga? And sometimes I wonder if they just charged more money by calling it "professional" because they could get away with that.


    I think you have to consider the fact that now all content is digital and very easy to edit. Back then all content was analog and had first to be digitised. The Amiga was able to do a lot realtime. Now computers have to take a digital file and edit it. To put this in perspective. 20 seconds mediocre sound would take 880kb on a floppy disk. Now compare this to 20 seconds 4K HDR video file uncompressed... a lot has changed and I'm happy for that but it was a nice time to be active in.

    I would often prefer a hardware-based solution so as not to tax the CPU too much. One instance is when PC motherbaords started including audio onboard, I seem to remember reading that they were often codec-based and required more in the software to process the audio, compared to a dedicated sound card. These days I'm not sure if that's still the case, or if it really matters much with today's CPUs. It looks like many motherboards use Realtek audio chips, and I'm not sure how much of the audio processing for those is done in the hardware or software these days. I've seen some motherboards with onboard Sound Blaster audio and I wonder how much better that solution is compared to Realtek.

    I have also wondered about this. You don't see SB often anymore in PCs. CPU have so much power nowadays.

    I had an Asus Xonar Xense audio card in my current PC, and I'm in the process of building a new PC - I think I'm just going to use the onboard audio in the new one and see how that goes.

    Curious if you can hear the difference. According some hardware magazines who measure the dB range they said there is almost no difference. hence the almost..

    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 03:17:31 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 2019 10:39 pm

    I think you have to consider the fact that now all content is digital and very easy to edit. Back then all content was analog and had first to be digitised. The Amiga was able to do a lot realtime. Now computers have to take a digital file and edit it. To put this in perspective. 20 seconds mediocre sound would take 880kb on a floppy disk. Now compare this to 20 seconds 4K HDR video file uncompressed... a lot has changed and I'm happy for that but it was a nice time to be active in.

    That's true. We have a lot of processing power and storage space available these days.

    I have also wondered about this. You don't see SB often anymore in PCs. CPU have so much power nowadays.

    That's true.
    A long time ago, I had a 386SX-16 PC, running MS-DOS, and had put a Sound Blaster 16 audio card in it, and it would stutter when playing a short 16-bit 44.1khz audio file.

    I had an Asus Xonar Xense audio card in my current PC, and I'm in the
    process of building a new PC - I think I'm just going to use the
    onboard audio in the new one and see how that goes.

    Curious if you can hear the difference. According some hardware magazines who measure the dB range they said there is almost no difference. hence the almost..

    The Asus Xonar Xense came with a nice pair of Sennheiser 350 headphones, but with those, unfortunately I won't be able to plug them into the onboard audio without an adapter, because the Sennheiser headphones uses the bigger 6.35mm audio connectors (the sound card had that size of audio ports just for the headset's audio and microphone), and the onboard audio uses the smaller 3.5mm audio connectors.
    With my pair of desktop speakers though, I'm sure I won't notice a difference in audio quality.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 03:23:44 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Nightfox on Thu Mar 28 2019 10:39 pm

    I have also wondered about this. You don't see SB often anymore in PCs. CPU have so much power nowadays.

    Another thing I forgot in my last reply was, there were some sound cards I really enjoyed, even if I didn't use all the features. In the mid-90s, I remember the Sound Blaster AWE32 came out, and it had onboard wavetable MIDI, and even had a couple of slots for standard memory modules so you could expand its memory for MIDI wavetable sounds. Later, I had a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZX Pro or something, which had a fairly nice front panel for the PC case that had audio inputs & outputs, MIDI input & output, volume control, etc.. These days you just get the basic headphone & microphone jacks on the front of PC cases, and no more hardware MIDI anymore. Any MIDI these days seems to be done in software, but I guess the benefit of that is if you're doing multi-track music recording, software MIDI enables the recording software to easily render the MIDI tracks to a WAV file.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 18:39:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Thu Mar 28 2019 10:31 pm


    That was also why I love the Amiga 2000. It was basically an Amiga 500 with featuring expansion board/bays. Even today they bring new cards out with new features like network, ide, sata, usb, etc... amazing.

    Speaking of Amiga models, I saw tech show on Youtube reviewing an expansion
    kit known as the A1500. An Amiga enthusiast in the UK saw the board inside the
    500 was capable of more expansion, but limited by it's chassis dimensions.
    The Checkmate A 1500 was an after market desktop case which allowed for
    dual floppies and a hard drive.

    After being on the market for awhile, Commodore noticed a drop in sales of higher end models and released an official Amiga 1500 (with a similar form factor) in the UK to put Checkmate out of business.

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Fri Mar 29 22:30:56 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39 am

    Speaking of Amiga models, I saw tech show on Youtube reviewing an expansion kit known as the A1500. An Amiga enthusiast in the UK saw the board inside the 500 was capable of more expansion, but limited by it's chassis dimensions. The Checkmate A 1500 was an after market desktop case which allowed for dual floppies and a hard drive.

    After being on the market for awhile, Commodore noticed a drop in sales of higher end models and released an official Amiga 1500 (with a similar form factor) in the UK to put Checkmate out of business.

    Interesting.. I never used Amiga much, but I always thought their computer cases & such looked similar to IBM-compatible PC cases & things back in the day. It seemed like there could have been (or was?) a good market for aftermarket Amiga cases & such, and sometimes I've wondered if there could have been a market for Amiga-compatible clones and building your own Amiga computer like there is (and was) for IBM-compatible PCs. It looks like Amiga always preferred to keep their architecture closed, like Apple has done most of the time. I remember a brief period in the 90s when Apple allowed clones to be made, and Steve Jobs stopped that when he returned to Apple.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sat Mar 30 16:56:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Moondog on Fri Mar 29 2019 03:30 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39 am

    Speaking of Amiga models, I saw tech show on Youtube reviewing an expansion kit known as the A1500. An Amiga enthusiast in the UK saw the board inside the 500 was capable of more expansion, but limited by it's chassis dimensions. The Checkmate A 1500 was an after market desktop ca which allowed for dual floppies and a hard drive.

    After being on the market for awhile, Commodore noticed a drop in sales higher end models and released an official Amiga 1500 (with a similar f factor) in the UK to put Checkmate out of business.

    Interesting.. I never used Amiga much, but I always thought their computer cases & such looked similar to IBM-compatible PC cases & things back in the day. It seemed like there could have been (or was?) a good market for aftermarket Amiga cases & such, and sometimes I've wondered if there could h been a market for Amiga-compatible clones and building your own Amiga comput like there is (and was) for IBM-compatible PCs. It looks like Amiga always preferred to keep their architecture closed, like Apple has done most of the time. I remember a brief period in the 90s when Apple allowed clones to be made, and Steve Jobs stopped that when he returned to Apple.

    Nightfox

    The Amiga 500 was the base system. Instead of a pc type enclosure, the 500
    had a case similar to the C64c and C128. The all in one keyboard type case limited the user to having a single floppy on the side, while the motherboard could accomodate more than one drive.

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Mar 31 15:20:00 2019
    On 03-28-19 06:13, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Vk3jed wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think everyone loved Novell, it was pretty robust.

    What killed Novell, IMO, were the seat license fees. It was expensive
    and worked amazingly well. Windows came around nowhere as reliable but comparatively cheap, and momentum shifted.

    Yes, we went the Windows way. At first, Windows networking was horrendously unreliable on less than perfect networking hardware, compared to Novell, but it gradually improved over the years.

    True - my problems with SCSI were with mis-matched consumer-grade
    stuff on Mac, whereas running SCSI on a server where you're not mixing
    and matching brands and external/internal devices was a different
    beast.

    Yeah that changes things. I only dealt with internal HDDs and tape drives, which no doubt simplified the SCSI installations I worked with.

    Picture my Mac IIci with a 1GB external hard drive, 2GB DDS tape
    drive, Syquest drive and a CD-ROM, with all of those centronics cables daisy chaining the devices. You'd have to have them in a specific
    order or else it wouldn't work.

    Ouch!


    ... The light at the end of the wormhole is an incoming photon torpedo.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 1 22:29:55 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Hawkeye on Wed Mar 27 2019 09:45:00

    Loved Novell Netware. Hated SCSI back then, but a properly tuned array
    on Novell with Elevator seeking was a beauty to behold.

    Novell was very fast and stable for networks back in the days... SCSI was a mess indeed, on all OSes to be true. First Novell server I installed had ESDI controller (Netware 2.12 ELS level II)
    .
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Nightfox on Mon Apr 1 22:32:45 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Hawkeye on Thu Mar 28 2019 20:23:44

    really enjoyed, even if I didn't use all the features. In the mid-90s, I remember the Sound Blaster AWE32 came out, and it had onboard wavetable MIDI, and even had a couple of slots for standard memory modules so you

    I remember this too. Running the first time audio with the AWE32 was a wow moment. The difference was amazing. Weird thing is when I now listen to SID or MOD on the C64 or Amiga I can appreciate the pure music of it. Nostalgia but sounds pure/other.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Moondog on Mon Apr 1 22:34:49 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39:00

    chassis dimensions. The Checkmate A 1500 was an after market desktop case

    CheckMate was indeed selling as A1500. Actually in UK the Amiga A1500 even existed. It was a rebadged 2000.

    The original 1500 is also on my wishlist for my collection. LOL
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Moondog on Mon Apr 1 22:36:25 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39:00

    After being on the market for awhile, Commodore noticed a drop in sales of higher end models and released an official Amiga 1500 (with a similar form factor) in the UK to put Checkmate out of business.

    True... and in 2019 they are BACK :) Bringing out a 3000 lookalike case... Commodore is not there to put them out of business now. I prefer the true retro machines. But it is a nice project.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077
  • From Dmxrob@VERT/STLWEST to Hawkeye on Mon Apr 1 20:32:30 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 01 2019 03:29 pm

    Novell was very fast and stable for networks back in the days... SCSI was a

    Novell was ahead of its time in many ways. What killed Novell, in my opinion, was Active Directory. AD was lightyears ahead of Netware Directory Services.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Gateway to the West | bbs.homelabber.net
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dmxrob on Tue Apr 2 13:50:00 2019
    On 04-01-19 13:32, Dmxrob wrote to Hawkeye <=-

    Novell was very fast and stable for networks back in the days... SCSI was a

    Novell was ahead of its time in many ways. What killed Novell, in my opinion, was Active Directory. AD was lightyears ahead of Netware Directory Services.

    Novell was already being pushed out by Windows before AD came along.


    ... Committee work is like a soft chair...easy to get into but hard to get out --- MultiMail/Win v0.51
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hawkeye on Tue Apr 2 17:14:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Mon Apr 01 2019 03:34 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39:00

    chassis dimensions. The Checkmate A 1500 was an after market desktop ca

    CheckMate was indeed selling as A1500. Actually in UK the Amiga A1500 even existed. It was a rebadged 2000.

    The original 1500 is also on my wishlist for my collection. LOL
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

    Sunday I saw a video toaster card plus all the software for $200 on
    Craigslist. I don't have an Amiga, however it made me think of how far we've gone with video porduction software.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Hawkeye on Tue Apr 2 17:17:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to Moondog on Mon Apr 01 2019 03:36 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Fri Mar 29 2019 11:39:00

    After being on the market for awhile, Commodore noticed a drop in sales higher end models and released an official Amiga 1500 (with a similar f factor) in the UK to put Checkmate out of business.

    True... and in 2019 they are BACK :) Bringing out a 3000 lookalike case... Commodore is not there to put them out of business now. I prefer the true re machines. But it is a nice project.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -


    I saw that in an interview with the creator of the A 1500. I have been a fan of low profile cases, and figure an ITX board would take up little space.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Dmxrob on Tue Apr 2 17:19:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dmxrob to Hawkeye on Mon Apr 01 2019 01:32 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Hawkeye to poindexter FORTRAN on

    Novell was very fast and stable for networks back in the days... SCSI was

    Novell was ahead of its time in many ways. What killed Novell, in my opinio was Active Directory. AD was lightyears ahead of Netware Directory Services

    AD, plus TCP/IP native Microsoft networking (goodbye IPX/SPX)

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dmxrob@VERT/STLWEST to Vk3jed on Tue Apr 2 18:18:26 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Dmxrob on Tue Apr 02 2019 06:50 am

    Novell was already being pushed out by Windows before AD came along.


    As someone who ran many Novell Networks I disagree. We didn't even look at Windows before AD was a reality. It wasn't until Windows 2000 came out that anyone gave a serious thought to using Windows.

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Gateway to the West | bbs.homelabber.net
  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Dmxrob on Wed Apr 3 02:48:12 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dmxrob to Hawkeye on Mon Apr 01 2019 13:32:30

    Novell was ahead of its time in many ways. What killed Novell, in my opinion, was Active Directory. AD was lightyears ahead of Netware Directory Services.

    True... Microsoft saw Banyan Vines Street Talk and this was very scalable... so Microsoft bought it and implement this in Windows NT as domain controller Active Directory... What also was a big point is that Novell kept pushing IPX/SPX till version 4(!) while all customers were asking for a decent TCP/IP implementation. Microsoft knew this. They acted Novell didn't.
    HAWKEYE

    - MASH BBS - http://mash4077.ddns.net:4077 - The Netherlands -

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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Moondog on Wed Apr 3 02:52:41 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Hawkeye on Tue Apr 02 2019 10:14:00

    Sunday I saw a video toaster card plus all the software for $200 on Craigslist. I don't have an Amiga, however it made me think of how far we've gone with video porduction software.

    I wish we had that here... depends on which video toaster it was but NewTek video toasters are now on ebay for 100-160 USD.

    Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro did a good job.
    HAWKEYE

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  • From Hawkeye@VERT/MASHBBS to Dmxrob on Wed Apr 3 02:58:04 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dmxrob to Vk3jed on Tue Apr 02 2019 11:18:26

    Novell was already being pushed out by Windows before AD came along.
    As someone who ran many Novell Networks I disagree. We didn't even look at

    I remember this too. Windows NT 3.1 running Citrix terminal services was a very common solution with mid-big size companies here in Europe (I worked in Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, France and Spain). Netware didnt have a proper TCP/IP stack, was too buggy.

    Novell couldnt provide this. Also the connection via 3270 for AS/400 and RS6000s was not easy and stable enough.

    I ran and maintained them all. Novell Netware was a good product but they kept going on with IPX/SPX which was a hell for diagnosing networks. 1 LAN nice but multiple networks and also with gateways... very bad solution.
    HAWKEYE

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dmxrob on Wed Apr 3 20:55:00 2019
    On 04-02-19 11:18, Dmxrob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    As someone who ran many Novell Networks I disagree. We didn't even
    look at Windows before AD was a reality. It wasn't until Windows 2000 came out that anyone gave a serious thought to using Windows.

    Windows was starting to displace Novell in our network in the latter NT4 days. AD was the finmal blow.


    ... Humour is emotional chaos remembered in tranquillity.
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Vk3jed on Thu Apr 4 15:42:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Dmxrob on Wed Apr 03 2019 01:55 pm

    On 04-02-19 11:18, Dmxrob wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    As someone who ran many Novell Networks I disagree. We didn't even look at Windows before AD was a reality. It wasn't until Windows 2000 came out that anyone gave a serious thought to using Windows.

    Windows was starting to displace Novell in our network in the latter NT4 day AD was the finmal blow.


    ... Humour is emotional chaos remembered in tranquillity.

    My experience is similar. Checking back with previous co-workers at Novell shops, they switched to MS instead of going to Novell 5. Another factor was Y2k was going on, and many older mainframe apps were being phased out. This helped in ditching mainframe to SPX/IPX protocols and switch to a TCP/IP
    native networks.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thu Apr 4 23:22:00 2019
    Moondog wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    AD, plus TCP/IP native Microsoft networking (goodbye IPX/SPX)

    I remember trying to get IPX/SPX, TCP/IP and Appletalk all
    cooperating on the same wire. Running all IP is so much nicer.



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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Apr 5 16:40:00 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Apr 04 2019 04:22 pm

    Moondog wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    AD, plus TCP/IP native Microsoft networking (goodbye IPX/SPX)

    I remember trying to get IPX/SPX, TCP/IP and Appletalk all
    cooperating on the same wire. Running all IP is so much nicer.



    ... What do you think of the guests?
    Add Pathworks 95 for DEC systems and you'd have nasty protcol martini

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Dmxrob on Fri Apr 5 21:33:52 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dmxrob to Vk3jed on Tue Apr 02 2019 11:18 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Dmxrob on Tue Apr
    02 2019 06:50 am

    I noticed this unexpected word-wrapping in your message and it got me looking into the word-wrap code for a bug in Ctrl-A code handling. It turns out, your message contained raw ANSI sequences, not Ctrl-A codes.

    Can you double check what you have set in SCFG->Networks->QWK->Hubs->VERT->Subs->DOVE-Net Entertainment->Ctrl-A Codes?
    I suspect you have it set to "Expand to ANSI". It should normally be set to "Leave in" (the default configuration on new installs).

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #68:
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  • From Dmxrob@VERT/STLWEST to Digital Man on Sat Apr 6 00:05:02 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Digital Man to Dmxrob on Fri Apr 05 2019 02:33 pm

    I noticed this unexpected word-wrapping in your message and it got me looking into the word-wrap code for a bug in Ctrl-A code handling. It turns out, your message contained raw ANSI sequences, not Ctrl-A codes.
    Can you double check what you have set in SCFG->Networks->QWK->Hubs->VERT->Subs->DOVE-Net Entertainment->Ctrl-A Codes?

    The "global" setting for the hub got turned on to Expand. Not sure how or why, but it should be resolved now.

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  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Digital Man on Fri Apr 5 23:46:28 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Digital Man to Dmxrob on Fri Apr 05 2019 02:33 pm

    Can you double check what you have set in SCFG->Networks->QWK->Hubs->VERT->Subs->DOVE-Net Entertainment->Ctrl-A Codes? I suspect you have it set to "Expand to ANSI". It should normally be set to "Leave in" (the default configuration on new installs).

    Just out of curiosity - is there anything equivalent for other networks (like, the FTN-based
    ones)? (I could be barking up the wrong tree here) I have found that a lot of messages with
    ANSI in them blow the message reader all over the place, most notably items that appear in the
    FSXNet_BOT area. Just curious if there's any sort of correlation (or something I should set
    to allow ANSI-ish messages to be displayed better).

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  • From Digital Man@VERT to Va7aqd on Sat Apr 6 03:21:05 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Va7aqd to Digital Man on Fri Apr 05 2019 04:46 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Digital Man to Dmxrob on Fri Apr 05 2019 02:33 pm

    Can you double check what you have set in SCFG->Networks->QWK->Hubs->VERT->Subs->DOVE-Net Entertainment->Ctrl-A Codes?
    I suspect you have it set to "Expand to ANSI". It should normally be set to
    "Leave in" (the default configuration on new installs).

    Just out of curiosity - is there anything equivalent for other networks (like, the FTN-based ones)? (I could be barking up the wrong tree here) I have found that a lot of messages with ANSI in them blow the message reader all over the place, most notably items that appear in the FSXNet_BOT area. Just curious if there's any sort of correlation (or something I should set to allow ANSI-ish messages to be displayed better).

    If it's really raw ANSI, then no, there's no method (in sbbs) for converting/stripping those sequences. Ideally, all message networks should use/require some other type of color-encoding that is easier to parse/strip/convert as needed, like Ctrl-A codes, pipe codes, etc.
    Raw ANSI is just not very message-friendly, so it's generally discouraged from use in networked message areas.

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #32:
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  • From Va7aqd@VERT/VA7AQDS to Digital Man on Sat Apr 6 19:36:24 2019
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Digital Man to Va7aqd on Fri Apr 05 2019 08:21 pm

    Raw ANSI is just not very message-friendly, so it's generally discouraged from use in networked message areas.

    OK, thanks muchly for that, appreciated!

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Sun Apr 7 16:00:00 2019
    On 04-04-19 08:42, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    My experience is similar. Checking back with previous co-workers at
    Novell shops, they switched to MS instead of going to Novell 5.
    Another factor was Y2k was going on, and many older mainframe apps were being phased out. This helped in ditching mainframe to SPX/IPX
    protocols and switch to a TCP/IP native networks.

    IP was a big factor, we were Internet connected in 1997, which meant anything used from then on had to use or coexist with IP. And of course, eliminating a protocol can always simplify things.


    ... Was Jimi Hendrix's modem a Purple Hayes?
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Hawkeye on Mon Apr 8 00:02:00 2019
    On 04-02-19 19:48, Hawkeye wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    True... Microsoft saw Banyan Vines Street Talk and this was very

    Yes, Banyan Vines was very good in its day

    scalable... so Microsoft bought it and implement this in Windows NT as domain controller Active Directory... What also was a big point is that Novell kept pushing IPX/SPX till version 4(!) while all customers were asking for a decent TCP/IP implementation. Microsoft knew this. They
    acted Novell didn't. HAWKEYE

    And the rest is history.


    ... Sorry for the typos...I wix my mords quite often.
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 8 00:08:00 2019
    On 04-04-19 16:22, poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Moondog <=-

    @VIA: VERT/REALITY
    Moondog wrote to Dmxrob <=-

    AD, plus TCP/IP native Microsoft networking (goodbye IPX/SPX)

    I remember trying to get IPX/SPX, TCP/IP and Appletalk all
    cooperating on the same wire. Running all IP is so much nicer.

    I was able to manage IP, IPX/SPX and NetBEUI running together, but sometimes there were hard to debug issues, especially with Windows network browsing on multi segment networks with multihomed domain controllers (where clients with IPX/SPX could browse across subnets, but IP only ones couldn't, because of how browsing worked back then).

    Back then, NetBEUI was mainly used by DOS and Windows 3.x as a leaner single segment network. Most often used by DOS boot floppies used to reinstall Windows (before Ghost came along). This maximised conventional memory (~600k available as oppesed to ~350k when using IP).

    IPX/SPX was mainly for those clients running Netware (again mostly DOS), while IP was primarily for Internet access.

    Windows today has ironed out a lot of those kinks, and it's nice to only need to run IP on the wire (though now I run IPv4 and IPv6 ;) ).


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Mon Apr 8 00:09:00 2019
    On 04-05-19 09:40, Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Add Pathworks 95 for DEC systems and you'd have nasty protcol martini

    Shaken, not stirred? ;)


    ... Nothing's impossible to those that don't have to do it.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 6 13:45:04 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Mar 24 2019 08:16 am

    I'm not sure I'd say the augments have been done to death. Space
    Seed, Wrath of Khan, and a few episodes in Enterprise are the only
    things I remember that deal with the augments. The Borg, though, is
    one thing I think was done to death in Voyager.

    Difference is they didn't redo the meeting of the Borg over and over. :)

    What do you mean by "redo the meeting of the Borg"?

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sat Mar 7 11:57:00 2020
    On 03-06-20 13:45, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    @VIA: VERT/DIGDIST
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Mar 24 2019 08:16 am

    I'm not sure I'd say the augments have been done to death. Space
    Seed, Wrath of Khan, and a few episodes in Enterprise are the only
    things I remember that deal with the augments. The Borg, though, is
    one thing I think was done to death in Voyager.

    Difference is they didn't redo the meeting of the Borg over and over. :)

    What do you mean by "redo the meeting of the Borg"?

    Well, Space Seed/Khan was originally done in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan idea was effectively resone in the second JJ Abrhams movie. We haven't had a rehash of an old Borg story..... yet!


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 6 21:30:03 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Mar 07 2020 11:57 am

    Difference is they didn't redo the meeting of the Borg over and
    over. :)

    What do you mean by "redo the meeting of the Borg"?

    Well, Space Seed/Khan was originally done in TOS, and the Wrath of Khan idea was effectively resone in the second JJ Abrhams movie. We haven't had a rehash of an old Borg story..... yet!

    I'm not sure what you meant about them having redone the meeting of the Borg previously though.. Do you mean how the Borg were introduced in TNG, and then used time travel to put the Borg meeting humans earlier into history?

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sat Mar 7 19:07:00 2020
    On 03-06-20 21:30, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I'm not sure what you meant about them having redone the meeting of the Borg previously though.. Do you mean how the Borg were introduced in
    TNG, and then used time travel to put the Borg meeting humans earlier
    into history?

    I mean they didn't reboot that story in another movie, like they did with Khan.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Sat Mar 7 11:47:01 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sat Mar 07 2020 07:07 pm

    I'm not sure what you meant about them having redone the meeting of
    the Borg previously though.. Do you mean how the Borg were
    introduced in TNG, and then used time travel to put the Borg meeting
    humans earlier into history?

    I mean they didn't reboot that story in another movie, like they did with Khan.

    True. The reboot movies are in the TOS era though, and the Borg are more in the TNG era.

    I had heard the 4th reboot Star Trek movie was in trouble because Chris Pine and several other actors decided not to do it. But I think I heard they may have changed their mind and decided to do it. I'm glad to see Discovery and Picard are at least supposed to be in the main timeline though.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Sun Mar 8 16:50:00 2020
    On 03-07-20 11:47, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    I mean they didn't reboot that story in another movie, like they did with Khan.

    True. The reboot movies are in the TOS era though, and the Borg are
    more in the TNG era.

    For now. ;) Who knows what the movie makers will do in the future? ;)

    I had heard the 4th reboot Star Trek movie was in trouble because Chris Pine and several other actors decided not to do it. But I think I
    heard they may have changed their mind and decided to do it. I'm glad
    to see Discovery and Picard are at least supposed to be in the main timeline though.

    Yes, I'm also glad the series are continuing with the main timeline. I would like to see a movie that undoes the alternate timeline, once they've finished with it.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 9 12:40:13 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Mar 08 2020 04:50 pm

    Yes, I'm also glad the series are continuing with the main timeline. I would like to see a movie that undoes the alternate timeline, once they've finished with it.

    That might be a tough thing to do now that the Picard show has started. The Picard show is in the main timeline, and they have continued with the idea that Romulus was destroyed. So if they make a movie where that was undone, that might complicate things a bit.

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue Mar 10 21:04:00 2020
    On 03-09-20 12:40, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    That might be a tough thing to do now that the Picard show has started.
    The Picard show is in the main timeline, and they have continued with
    the idea that Romulus was destroyed. So if they make a movie where
    that was undone, that might complicate things a bit.

    But they can still stop the Narada going back in time.


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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Nightfox on Tue Mar 10 06:28:00 2020
    Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    So if they make a movie where
    that was undone, that might complicate things a bit.

    Timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly and all that.

    I think it's interesting that the Terminator franchise has handled meddling with the timeline well. Apparently the tide of the war changed from Skynet winning to one where humans were fighting back, and in the newest
    installment, Skynet never existed.


    ... The exception also declares the rule
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  • From Android8675@VERT/REALITY to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Mar 10 07:09:49 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Mar 10 2020 06:28 am

    So if they make a movie where
    that was undone, that might complicate things a bit.

    Timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly and all that.

    I think it's interesting that the Terminator franchise has handled meddling with the timeline well. Apparently the tide of the war changed from Skynet winning to one where humans were fighting back, and in the newest installment, Skynet never existed.

    Did it never exist? I mean it may "no longer" exist, but there remains evidense that it once existed. I enjoyed the last Terminator, the robot was pretty cool this time around. So was Hamilton. Girl's lookin good for her age.
    --
    Android8675@realitycheckbbs.o r g

    ... Do the washing up

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Mar 10 12:59:33 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Mar 10 2020 06:28 am

    I think it's interesting that the Terminator franchise has handled meddling with the timeline well. Apparently the tide of the war changed from Skynet winning to one where humans were fighting back, and in the newest installment, Skynet never existed.

    I saw the newest Terminator movie, and although Skynet never existed, something else came up in its place, called Legion. So it's back to the same problem. I thought that was a little funny/odd, especially with James Cameron directing, because one of the main ideas of the first 2 Terminator movies is that the future is not set and you can change fate. Terminator 2 even had an alternate ending that took place 30 years in the future, and everything was fine without Skynet.

    Nightfox

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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to VK3JED on Tue Mar 10 09:56:00 2020
    VK3JED wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

    to see Discovery and Picard are at least supposed to be in the main timeline though.

    Yes, I'm also glad the series are continuing with the main timeline. I would like to see a movie that undoes the alternate timeline, once
    they've finished with it.

    I almost commented on another message...

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did
    the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with
    the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE
    and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed'
    type of reboot.

    Interesting, to say the least!




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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to JIMMY ANDERSON on Wed Mar 11 20:22:38 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to VK3JED on Tue Mar 10 2020 09:56 am

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE
    and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed'
    type of reboot.

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had come before. And with the JJ Abrams movies, it seems the past did change - The Vulcan home world was destroyed in the past, which is something they had to deal with. Also, it seems the design of the Enterprise changed a bit. A lot of schematics & drawings I've seen online show the JJ Abrams Enterprise to be about as big as the Enterprise D from the Next Generation. The original Enterprise was quite a bit smaller than the Enterprise D.

    Nightfox

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  • From Lupine Furmen@VERT/FURFOL to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 13 01:03:18 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to JIMMY ANDERSON on Thu Mar 12 2020 14:36:00

    I almost commented on another message...
    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they
    did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before,
    but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what
    happened BEFORE and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the
    past has changed' type of reboot.

    Hmm, it has changed a lot, like the destruction of Vulcan. So I don't quite follow your logic. It is a different timeline.

    What does ANY of this have to do with Disco??????
    -+-

    Lupine Furmen
    -Dallas Vinson
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Lupine Furmen on Fri Mar 13 13:33:41 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Lupine Furmen to Vk3jed on Fri Mar 13 2020 01:03 am

    Hmm, it has changed a lot, like the destruction of Vulcan. So I
    don't quite follow your logic. It is a different timeline.

    What does ANY of this have to do with Disco??????

    Thread drift.. It's a thing. :)

    Nightfox

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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Lupine Furmen on Sat Mar 14 10:24:00 2020
    On 03-13-20 01:03, Lupine Furmen wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Hmm, it has changed a lot, like the destruction of Vulcan. So I don't quite follow your logic. It is a different timeline.

    What does ANY of this have to do with Disco??????

    Follow the content - thread drift. ;)


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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Fri Mar 13 22:25:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to JIMMY ANDERSON on Wed Mar 11 2020 08:22 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to VK3JED on Tue Mar 10 2020 09:56 am

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed' type of reboot.

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had come be e design of the Enterprise changed a bit. A lot of schematics & drawings I'
    D.

    Nightfox

    Current Picard series timeline is 2399. In 2385 the Romular star was
    showing signs fo going supernova, which leads to Spock trying an experimental technique to fix the star. This fails, and the story line for the 2009 Trek film branches off to ccreate separate timeline. While this was going on, Picard wanted to perform a Dunkirk style rescue operation and evacuate as
    many Romulans before the star blows. Starfleet feels it sends the wrong message sending a Soveriegn class ship such as the Enterprise to head the rescue, so Picard was re-assigned to a not as scary looking ship. While this is being organized, the Mars shipyards building the rescue transports is sabotaged, causing their thousands of Data-inspired positronic brained
    androids to destroy the shipyards and outlaw further artificial intelligence research. Starfleet backs down from the rescue effort, and Picard persists anyways, limiting the careers of the officers below him on his new ship.

    Picard is successful in rescuing several groups of Romulans, and some revere h im as a worthy hero while others feel he placed them somewhere worse than before. Picard retires back to Chateau Picard Winery and his housekeepers / care takers are former Tal Shiar secret police operatives.

    ---
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to NIGHTFOX on Sat Mar 14 09:33:00 2020
    NIGHTFOX wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5E69AAFE.4971.dove_entertai@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5E69A249.17301.dove-ent@vert.synchro.net>
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to VK3JED on Tue Mar 10 2020 09:56 am

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE
    and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed'
    type of reboot.

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had
    come before.

    You mean Picard?

    And with the JJ Abrams movies, it seems the past did
    change - The Vulcan home world was destroyed in the past, which is something they had to deal with.

    Well my point is that the past DID change, but instead of pretending
    the old didn't happen, 'old Spock' was still there and still had his
    memories, etc. That was a way of saying it DID happen - to him at
    least - so it wasn't wiped away from that point of view.

    Now, that being said, when does Picard happen? Is it pre-Abrams?
    Or post? Or what?

    Also, it seems the design of the
    Enterprise changed a bit. A lot of schematics & drawings I've seen
    online show the JJ Abrams Enterprise to be about as big as the
    Enterprise D from the Next Generation. The original Enterprise was
    quite a bit smaller than the Enterprise D.

    I'll take your word for it. :-) I've never been into the specs of
    it. :-)



    ... And on the 8th day God said, "Murphy, you're in charge."
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to VK3JED on Sat Mar 14 09:36:00 2020
    VK3JED wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    @VIA: FREEWAY
    @MSGID: <5E69B854.1630.dove-ent@freeway.apana.org.au>
    @REPLY: <5E69A249.17301.dove-ent@vert.synchro.net>
    On 03-10-20 09:56, JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to VK3JED <=-

    I almost commented on another message...

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE
    and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed'
    type of reboot.

    Hmm, it has changed a lot, like the destruction of Vulcan. So I don't quite follow your logic. It is a different timeline.

    Yes, it's a different timeline, but "we" are seeing it all from the
    perspective of "Old Spock." From HIS point of view, all that DID
    happen, and now he's in the past and the timeline has changed, but not
    HIS past.

    So 'we' as viewers have already seen the old timeline and now we are
    seeing the new one. Yes, it 'wipes away' the old one, but doesn't
    change all the memories, tapes, DVR's, etc. of the old shows. That
    stuff is wiped away 'in universe' but it also DID happen as well,
    for US.

    Thank any clearer? :-)




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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Mar 22 23:09:47 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to NIGHTFOX on Sat Mar 14 2020 09:33 am

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had
    come before.

    You mean Picard?

    No, I was referring to the JJ Abrams movies. When I saw the 2009 Star Trek, I had assumed they changed the past by having Nero sent back into the past and destroying the Vulcan home planet. I'd think everything after that would have been changed, so I wasn't sure where the Original Series movies, The Next Generation DS9, Voyager, etc. stood after that. But then I heard they had explained it somehow that the JJ Abrams movies are in a different timeline and the main timeline still exists (albeit with the Romulan home world destroyed). I've heard the Picard series is supposed to be in the main timeline.

    Well my point is that the past DID change, but instead of pretending
    the old didn't happen, 'old Spock' was still there and still had his memories, etc. That was a way of saying it DID happen - to him at
    least - so it wasn't wiped away from that point of view.

    Yep. And Old Spock was sent into the past (and into the JJ Abrams Star Trek universe).

    Now, that being said, when does Picard happen? Is it pre-Abrams?
    Or post? Or what?

    I've heard Picard is supposed to be in the main timeline, about 20 years or so after Nemesis.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to JIMMY ANDERSON on Mon Mar 23 16:07:00 2020
    On 03-14-20 09:36, JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to VK3JED <=-

    So 'we' as viewers have already seen the old timeline and now we are seeing the new one. Yes, it 'wipes away' the old one, but doesn't
    change all the memories, tapes, DVR's, etc. of the old shows. That
    stuff is wiped away 'in universe' but it also DID happen as well,
    for US.

    Thank any clearer? :-)

    Sounds like annoying sophistry to me. :/


    ... Love is a long term investment, not a quick return loan!
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 12:02:42 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Mar 22 2020 11:09 pm

    You mean Picard?

    No, I was referring to the JJ Abrams movies. When I saw the 2009 Star Trek, I had assumed they changed the past by having Nero sent back into the past and destroying the Vulcan home planet. I'd think everything after that would have been changed, so I wasn't sure where the Original Series movies, The Next Generation DS9, Voyager, etc. stood after that. But then I heard they had explained it somehow that the JJ Abrams movies are in a different timeline and the main timeline still exists (albeit with the Romulan home world destroyed). I've heard the Picard series is supposed to be in the main timeline.

    "Multiple Universes" is a pretty normal thing across all of Sci-fi. Star Trek has even dealt with it on occasion (the Mirror Universe being the most prominent example). When Nero/Spock were tossed back in time a new universe/timeline was created (It's been dubbed the "Kelvin Timeline" named after the ship Nero first encounters on which Kirk was born). The regular Trek timeline continued (Romulus was destroyed) as it always has.

    Star Trek Picard does take place about 20 years after Nemisis, and 13 years after the destruction of Romulus. It knows nothing of the Kelvin Timeline because, well, how could it?


    Picard has been an excellent series, by the way. The final episode of Season 1 streams on Thursday.

    DaiTengu

    ... Insufficient facts always invite danger. Spock, stardate 3141.9.

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 23 13:42:56 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 2020 12:02 pm

    "Multiple Universes" is a pretty normal thing across all of Sci-fi. Star Trek has even dealt with it on occasion (the Mirror Universe being the most prominent example). When Nero/Spock were tossed back in time a new universe/timeline was created (It's been dubbed the "Kelvin Timeline" named after the ship Nero first encounters on which Kirk was born). The regular Trek timeline continued (Romulus was destroyed) as it always has.

    Star Trek Picard does take place about 20 years after Nemisis, and 13 years after the destruction of Romulus. It knows nothing of the Kelvin Timeline because, well, how could it?

    Yes, although if the JJ Abrams/Kelvin movies are their own universe, that seems inconsistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel before. For instance, in the TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise", the arrival of the Enterprise C 22 years into its future changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate unvierse. There have been many other episodes of Star Trek dealing with time travel as well.. There was the TNG 2-part episode where they went back in time to the late 1800s, and they found Data's head in a cave, which had been there since the late 1800s (again, it changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate universe).

    Picard has been an excellent series, by the way. The final episode of Season 1 streams on Thursday.

    Yep, I've been enjoying Picard.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to JIMMY ANDERSON on Mon Mar 23 13:03:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to NIGHTFOX on Sat Mar 14 2020 09:33 am

    NIGHTFOX wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5E69AAFE.4971.dove_entertai@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5E69A249.17301.dove-ent@vert.synchro.net>
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to VK3JED on Tue Mar 10 2020 09:56 am

    I haven't watched Picard yet, but I do think it's cool the WAY they did the Abrams movies... It did NOT undo all that had come before, but with the whole time travel thing we were able to see what happened BEFORE and then see it happen AGAIN, as opposed to a 'the past has changed' type of reboot.

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had come before.

    You mean Picard?

    And with the JJ Abrams movies, it seems the past did
    change - The Vulcan home world was destroyed in the past, which is something they had to deal with.

    Well my point is that the past DID change, but instead of pretending
    the old didn't happen, 'old Spock' was still there and still had his memories, etc. That was a way of saying it DID happen - to him at
    least - so it wasn't wiped away from that point of view.

    Now, that being said, when does Picard happen? Is it pre-Abrams?
    Or post? Or what?

    Also, it seems the design of the
    Enterprise changed a bit. A lot of schematics & drawings I've seen online show the JJ Abrams Enterprise to be about as big as the Enterprise D from the Next Generation. The original Enterprise was quite a bit smaller than the Enterprise D.

    I'll take your word for it. :-) I've never been into the specs of
    it. :-)



    ... And on the 8th day God said, "Murphy, you're in charge."

    Picard is pre-Abrams timeline split, after the Romulan sun went nova.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 13:22:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Mar 22 2020 11:09 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to NIGHTFOX on Sat Mar 14 2020 09:33 am

    I don't remember how they worked it out that it didn't undo what had
    come before.

    You mean Picard?

    No, I was referring to the JJ Abrams movies. When I saw the 2009 Star Trek, wasn't sure where the Original Series movies, The Next Generation DS9, Voyag he Romulan home world destroyed). I've heard the Picard series is supposed

    Well my point is that the past DID change, but instead of pretending the old didn't happen, 'old Spock' was still there and still had his memories, etc. That was a way of saying it DID happen - to him at
    least - so it wasn't wiped away from that point of view.

    Yep. And Old Spock was sent into the past (and into the JJ Abrams Star Trek

    Now, that being said, when does Picard happen? Is it pre-Abrams?
    Or post? Or what?

    I've heard Picard is supposed to be in the main timeline, about 20 years or

    Nightfox


    Correct. Picard is in the orginal timeline. In the case of the Abrams
    films, the change in the past created an independant branch rather
    than altering the existing events in time of the original series timeline.

    The common thread is the Romulan sun went nova which triggers
    the events in Picard, plus also drove Nero to go back in time and attempt to kill Kirk and Spock, creating otherwise new, non-related timeline.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 19:33:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 23 2020 01:42 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 2020 12:02 pm

    "Multiple Universes" is a pretty normal thing across all of Sci-fi. Sta Trek has even dealt with it on occasion (the Mirror Universe being the most prominent example). When Nero/Spock were tossed back in time a new universe/timeline was created (It's been dubbed the "Kelvin Timeline" named after the ship Nero first encounters on which Kirk was born). The regular Trek timeline continued (Romulus was destroyed) as it always ha

    Star Trek Picard does take place about 20 years after Nemisis, and 13 years after the destruction of Romulus. It knows nothing of the Kelvin Timeline because, well, how could it?

    Yes, although if the JJ Abrams/Kelvin movies are their own universe, that se ts future changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate unvierse. nd Data's head in a cave, which had been there since the late 1800s (again,

    Picard has been an excellent series, by the way. The final episode of Season 1 streams on Thursday.

    Yep, I've been enjoying Picard.

    Nightfox

    On the TOS episode City on the Edge of Forever, the Guardian somehow exists
    outside of time, so the crew was aware of the damage McCoy did in the past
    (America stays neutral in WWII, Germany wins, and no Starfleet or Enterprise to beam them up.)

    In First Contact the Enterprise views the effects of the Borg going back in ti me right before they are pulled back in time.

    In Assignment Earth though, Gary 7's work is necessary to prevent the timeline
    from going astray. This establishes a pre-destined future where whatever
    acts in the past affect the main timeline downstream.

    That's the tricky part of writing time travel. It's all theoretical, so can pick and choose which events cannot be tampered with and keep the
    pre-existing future intact.

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Moondog on Tue Mar 24 20:28:00 2020
    On 03-23-20 19:33, Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    On the TOS episode City on the Edge of Forever, the Guardian somehow exists
    outside of time, so the crew was aware of the damage McCoy did in the past
    (America stays neutral in WWII, Germany wins, and no Starfleet or Enterprise to beam them up.)

    Well, the Guardian has the ability to manipulate time, so anything's possible there. :)

    In First Contact the Enterprise views the effects of the Borg going
    back in ti me right before they are pulled back in time.

    The Enterprise was already in the temporal vortex when that happened, which protected them from the effects of the change.


    ... This is one sick group. I feel that I've finally found my home.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Tue Mar 24 13:17:19 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Mar 24 2020 08:28 pm

    The Enterprise was already in the temporal vortex when that happened, which protected them from the effects of the change.

    Very conveniently, I thought. ;)

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Tue Mar 24 07:40:00 2020
    Moondog wrote to Nightfox <=-

    In Assignment Earth though, Gary 7's work is necessary to prevent the timeline
    from going astray. This establishes a pre-destined future where
    whatever acts in the past affect the main timeline downstream.

    That episode was supposed to be a feeler for a spin-off series with Gary Seven. I would have loved to see that.


    ... Do the words need changing?
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Nightfox on Tue Mar 24 06:48:53 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 23 2020 01:42 pm

    Yes, although if the JJ Abrams/Kelvin movies are their own universe, that seems inconsistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel before. For instance, in the TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise", the arrival of the Enterprise C 22 years into its future changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate unvierse. There have been many other episodes of Star Trek dealing with time travel as well.. There was the TNG 2-part episode where they went back in time to the late 1800s, and they found Data's head in a cave, which had been there since the late 1800s (again, it changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate universe).


    Trek has a long, storied history of retconning things. :)




    DaiTengu

    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to DaiTengu on Wed Mar 25 14:52:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Tue Mar 24 2020 06:48 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 23 2020 01:42 pm

    Yes, although if the JJ Abrams/Kelvin movies are their own universe, th seems inconsistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel before For instance, in the TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise", the arrival the Enterprise C 22 years into its future changed the timeline rather t creating an alternate unvierse. There have been many other episodes of Star Trek dealing with time travel as well.. There was the TNG 2-part episode where they went back in time to the late 1800s, and they found Data's head in a cave, which had been there since the late 1800s (again it changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate universe).


    Trek has a long, storied history of retconning things. :)




    DaiTengu

    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it


    I don't really care how it's explained, as long as the story telling is good.
    I'd like to see movie open with a scene where Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are
    being chased by gangsters in car chase which appears to be early 20th century Atlantic city. While explaing to Scotty over the communicator that Kirks' att empts at negotion failed, he drops his tricorder as the beam out. This will
    be self contained from the rest of the movie until the end, in which a next generation era ship re-visits the planet to find society based on Federation principles and technology learned from the tri-corder.

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Thu Mar 26 04:11:09 2020
    On 3/22/2020 11:09 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    I've heard Picard is supposed to be in the main timeline, about 20
    years or so after Nemesis.

    I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can go
    either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    I haven't seen the latest 2 episodes, but so far have mostly enjoyed Picard.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Thu Mar 26 13:56:35 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 26 2020 04:11 am

    I've heard Picard is supposed to be in the main timeline, about 20
    years or so after Nemesis.

    I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can go either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    I thought Picard or someone else actually said how long ago Data died, etc.. I didn't think the point in the timeline had been left abstract.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Mar 27 09:29:25 2020
    On 3/26/2020 1:56 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 26 2020 04:11 am

    >> I've heard Picard is supposed to be in the main timeline, about 20
    >> years or so after Nemesis.

    Tr> I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can go
    Tr> either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    I thought Picard or someone else actually said how long ago Data died, etc.. I didn't think the point in the timeline had been left abstract.

    I meant that if it was the Kelvin timeline or the old main timeline.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Fri Mar 27 12:15:31 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 27 2020 09:29 am

    I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can
    go either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    I thought Picard or someone else actually said how long ago Data died,
    etc.. I didn't think the point in the timeline had been left abstract.

    I meant that if it was the Kelvin timeline or the old main timeline.

    Ah.. Even then, I thought the Picard show was fairly clearly in the main timeline, or at least supposed to be.

    Nightfox

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Tracker1 on Sat Mar 28 08:17:47 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 26 2020 04:11 am

    I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can go either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    It is not. It is very specifically set in the main timeline, 20 years after Nemesis.

    DaiTengu

    ... If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sat Mar 28 12:14:00 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Fri Mar 27 2020 12:15 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 27 2020 09:29 am

    I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left abstract, so that they can Tr>> go either way... probably to avoid royalties or some such BS.

    I thought Picard or someone else actually said how long ago Data died,
    etc.. I didn't think the point in the timeline had been left abstract.

    I meant that if it was the Kelvin timeline or the old main timeline.

    Ah.. Even then, I thought the Picard show was fairly clearly in the main ti

    Nightfox

    Picard is in main timeline, 18-20 years after the movie Nemesis. The Romulan evacuation takes palce 15 years before Picard series. The Romulan sun going supernova also is the basis for the separate Kelvin time branch. I use the
    tr term branch to specify it's own identity.

    ---
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  • From Prime@VERT/RETROCON to Vk3jed on Sun Mar 29 08:50:53 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Sun Mar 08 2020 04:50 pm

    I had heard the 4th reboot Star Trek movie was in trouble because Chris Pine and several other actors decided not to do it. But I think I heard they may have changed their mind and decided to do it. I'm glad to see Discovery and Picard are at least supposed to be in the main timeline though.

    Yes, I'm also glad the series are continuing with the main timeline. I would like to see a movie that undoes the alternate timeline, once they've finished with it.

    Ever since I watched the first reboot movie, I have been firmly convinced that the entire timeline is just Spock in it for the lulz. I mean, in the timeline he's from, it has been demonstrated that even shortly after coming back from the dead, he has the mental capacity to do the calculations needed to intentionally travel through time. Given that, he has everything he needs to just go undo the entire situation, any time he wants. He just needed a vaction and a chance to harrass Kirk for a while. :-P

    ---
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  • From Prime@VERT/RETROCON to Nightfox on Sun Mar 29 09:23:33 2020
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Mar 23 2020 01:42 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Mar 23 2020 12:02 pm

    "Multiple Universes" is a pretty normal thing across all of Sci-fi. Star Trek has even dealt with it on occasion (the Mirror Universe being the most prominent example). When Nero/Spock were tossed back in time a new universe/timeline was created (It's been dubbed the "Kelvin Timeline" named after the ship Nero first encounters on which Kirk was born). The regular Trek timeline continued (Romulus was destroyed) as it always has.

    Star Trek Picard does take place about 20 years after Nemisis, and 13 years after the destruction of Romulus. It knows nothing of the Kelvin Timeline because, well, how could it?

    Yes, although if the JJ Abrams/Kelvin movies are their own universe, that seems inconsistent with how Star Trek has dealt with time travel before.
    For instance, in the TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise", the arrival of the Enterprise C 22 years into its future changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate unvierse. There have been many other episodes of Star Trek dealing with time travel as well.. There was the TNG 2-part episode where they went back in time to the late 1800s, and they found Data's head in a cave, which had been there since the late 1800s (again, it changed the timeline rather than creating an alternate universe).

    The answer to that problem lies in what happened in "All Good Things" when it was shown that multiple, paralell timelines do exist in that Universe. The implication was that usually time travel is within a contained timeline, but with some of the events from that episode or the ToS "Guardian on the Edge of Forever" episode, and a number of less time-travel-focused episodes that work around the maliability of the very notion of "time," I can give them that out.

    ---
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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Prime on Mon Mar 30 16:29:00 2020
    On 03-29-20 08:50, Prime wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    Ever since I watched the first reboot movie, I have been firmly
    convinced that the entire timeline is just Spock in it for the lulz. I mean, in the timeline he's from, it has been demonstrated that even shortly after coming back from the dead, he has the mental capacity to
    do the calculations needed to intentionally travel through time. Given

    Interesting thought there. :)

    that, he has everything he needs to just go undo the entire situation,
    any time he wants. He just needed a vaction and a chance to harrass
    Kirk for a while. :-P

    Haha good one. :)


    ... The answer is "maybe" ... and that's semi-final
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to DAITENGU on Thu Apr 2 09:13:00 2020
    DAITENGU wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

    "Multiple Universes" is a pretty normal thing across all of Sci-fi.
    Star Trek has even dealt with it on occasion (the Mirror Universe being the most prominent example). When Nero/Spock were tossed back in time
    a new universe/timeline was created (It's been dubbed the "Kelvin Timeline" named after the ship Nero first encounters on which Kirk was born). The regular Trek timeline continued (Romulus was destroyed) as
    it always has.

    Not to be pedantic (but then again we are discussing sci-fi, right? :) )
    but new timeline is not the same as a multiverse, at least in my opinion.

    If they both existed at the same time, then yes, but if the timeline
    were to change, then it wipes away the old one and now 'none of that
    happened.'

    But, in my head canon, it DID happen, and 'we' the viewer got to see
    it all, then it changed with the 'reboot' that wasn't a 'wipe it away'
    reboot at all, but a 'time travel changes things' reboot.

    Whew. LOL

    Star Trek Picard does take place about 20 years after Nemisis, and 13 years after the destruction of Romulus. It knows nothing of the Kelvin Timeline because, well, how could it?

    Because that hasn't happened yet, right?

    Picard has been an excellent series, by the way. The final episode of Season 1 streams on Thursday.

    I have seen none of it so far, but I really should... I've heard nothing
    but positive things!





    ... When a man brings his wife a gift for no reason... there's a reason.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
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  • From Hammer@VERT/MUTINY to All on Sat Jan 2 16:17:24 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Mar 22 2020 23:09:47

    My least favorite star trek. I actually stopped watching it but my wife was sort of into it and wanted to continue so occasionally we watch it but I`ll be glad when it's over.

    I know that star trek has never been too "hard core" science fiction, that is leaning more toward the fiction and less toward the science but this new show just makes me cringe when they bring up fantasy elements like "time crystals".

    Also there was one episode where (forgetting almost all of the details here) there was something going on far away and they said it would take them years to get there but I did the math in my head given they're at warp 5 (which in an earlier episode they used so I know they have warp 5 at least) it would have taken about a month which in space travel terms is a short hop.

    Oh, and one scene where one of the bridge crew said "The computer thought we were upside down". I was thinking... what the hell does "upside down" mean in the context of space. and why would the computer care anyway?

    I try to disregard all that kind of stuff and focus on the story but it's really taxing my ability to suspend disbelief.

    I know a show like this has to balance realism with telling a story line but the one area were they opted for more realism was with Klingons actually speaking Klingon in the absense of a universal translator (no starfleet person around) but that`s one area I would prefer they just speak english because I know they`re speaking Klingon but we're the audience and the whole story is told for our benefit.

    ---
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Hammer on Sun Jan 3 11:12:18 2021
    On 1/2/2021 6:17 AM, Hammer wrote:

    My least favorite star trek. I actually stopped watching it but my wife was sort of into it and wanted to continue so occasionally we watch it but I`ll be
    glad when it's over.

    I had some hope after the last season, but that was slowly squashed over
    this most recent one. I can't help but feel that Michael Bernum is the
    worst character *ever*. I mean, there is absolutely no growth over the
    course of the series at all, deeply flawed and remains so. They may as
    well just make her join the Chain and rise in their ranks as bad as she is.


    I know that star trek has never been too "hard core" science fiction, that is leaning more toward the fiction and less toward the science but this new show just makes me cringe when they bring up fantasy elements like "time crystals".

    Also there was one episode where (forgetting almost all of the details here) there was something going on far away and they said it would take them years to
    get there but I did the math in my head given they're at warp 5 (which in an earlier episode they used so I know they have warp 5 at least) it would have taken about a month which in space travel terms is a short hop.

    Oh, and one scene where one of the bridge crew said "The computer thought we were upside down". I was thinking... what the hell does "upside down" mean in
    the context of space. and why would the computer care anyway?

    That's almost always been the case though. Take ST: IV and the journey
    to the center of the galaxy, vs the entire Voyager series. It also
    doesn't help that Discovery stole a bunch of core plot points anyway.


    I try to disregard all that kind of stuff and focus on the story but it's really taxing my ability to suspend disbelief.

    I know a show like this has to balance realism with telling a story line but the one area were they opted for more realism was with Klingons actually speaking Klingon in the absense of a universal translator (no starfleet person
    around) but that`s one area I would prefer they just speak english because I know they`re speaking Klingon but we're the audience and the whole story is told for our benefit.

    I'm okay with the Klingon as long as there's non-english subs.

    My biggest issue is the character development for the lead character is absolutely absent. Time after time after time this character just does
    what they decide is best, completely ignoring the chain of command or
    anything resembling an honor code. It's probably the only thing that's consistent in her character. She's like the a concentrated abstraction
    of everything wrong with youth in someone who should have learned better
    at this point. Most of the rest of the cast are better written at least.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to Tracker1 on Mon Jan 4 00:32:16 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Hammer on Sun Jan 03 2021 03:12 am

    at this point. Most of the rest of
    cast are better written at least.

    including the woman with the red hair
    who they try to make "chatty" but its
    like her monologues come out of the
    beginners guide to writing annoying
    sidekIcks. she doesnt even say much
    either, just rattles it all off to make
    it try to sound like a lot but it falls
    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Mantrid on Tue Jan 5 07:28:16 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Tracker1 on Sun Jan 03 2021 04:32 pm

    at this point. Most of the rest of
    cast are better written at least.

    including the woman with the red hair
    who they try to make "chatty" but its
    like her monologues come out of the
    beginners guide to writing annoying
    sidekIcks. she doesnt even say much
    either, just rattles it all off to make
    it try to sound like a lot but it falls
    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot


    You take that back. Tilly is the best character in Discovery, and I will fight anyone who disagrees!

    DaiTengu

    ... Superior ability breeds superior ambition. Spock, stardate 3141.9.

    ---
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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Tracker1 on Tue Jan 5 09:06:00 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Tracker1 to Hammer on Sun Jan 03 2021 03:12 am



    I'm okay with the Klingon as long as there's non-english subs.

    My biggest issue is the character development for the lead character is absolutely absent. Time after time after time this character just does
    what they decide is best, completely ignoring the chain of command or anything resembling an honor code. It's probably the only thing that's consistent in her character. She's like the a concentrated abstraction
    of everything wrong with youth in someone who should have learned better
    at this point. Most of the rest of the cast are better written at least.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS


    I think that's pretty much safe to say about any character. There are
    moments in their timeline of belief systems that define them and help choose their actions. When I mean belief systems, I also include honor codes, rules and regulations, and personal and their cultural philosophies. there were times in the series Enterprise where Archer would make bad calls, however
    that was a core philosophy of the series. He chose to go forward, knowing he will make mistakes alon the way.

    I used to have a supervisor who liked slogans, such as "learning by doing,"
    and "do it right the first time." I tried to explain part of learning is the bitter sting of making mistakes, and doing things right the first time
    doesn't prove you're learing anything except you haven't made a mistake yet. He had nothing to throw back at me.

    ---
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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to DaiTengu on Tue Jan 5 23:24:19 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Mantrid on Mon Jan 04 2021 11:28 pm

    You take that back. Tilly is the best character in Discovery, and I will fi anyone who disagrees!

    I repect your opinion so much that I'll let you keep her all to yourself :D ----------------------
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to DaiTengu on Tue Jan 5 16:50:47 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: DaiTengu to Mantrid on Mon Jan 04 2021 11:28 pm

    You take that back. Tilly is the best character in Discovery, and I will fight anyone who disagrees!

    I also like Tilly in Discovery.

    Nightfox

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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Mantrid on Tue Jan 5 20:06:19 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Tracker1 on Sun Jan 03 2021 04:32 pm

    including the woman with the red hair
    who they try to make "chatty" but its
    like her monologues come out of the
    beginners guide to writing annoying
    sidekIcks. she doesnt even say much
    either, just rattles it all off to make
    it try to sound like a lot but it falls
    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so

    And they made her #1. Shes a freaking Ensign and now she's second to the Captain. It makes no sense! The other bridge officers are like happy and smiling that she got the job. Oh, I'm sure they're thrilled that their years of starfleet career just got overlooked so some chatty redhead could run the ship.

    Ugh.

    Bob Roberts

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    þ Synchronet þ Halls of Valhalla =San=Francisco=
  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Nightfox on Tue Jan 5 20:22:55 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Tue Jan 05 2021 08:50 am

    You take that back. Tilly is the best character in Discovery, and I
    will fight anyone who disagrees!

    I also like Tilly in Discovery.

    I think she is a fine character, and a good actor. However, I have problems with the role she is filling and it's realism in a Ship that is supposed to follow a military-like chain of command.

    Bob Roberts

    ---
    þ Synchronet þ Halls of Valhalla =San=Francisco=
  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to Bob Roberts on Wed Jan 6 08:01:25 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Bob Roberts to Mantrid on Tue Jan 05 2021 12:06 pm


    Ha, i mean she's no riker or spock that's for sure. her command would be one of those rubbish ships that shows up as a space-taxi every few series for the main characters (or... well... SOMEONE has to be found partially embedded in an asteroid...)
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mantrid on Thu Jan 7 16:36:34 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Bob Roberts on Wed Jan 06 2021 12:01 am

    Ha, i mean she's no riker or spock that's for sure. her command would be

    It would be good to quote the part of the message you're replying to so we have some context to what you're talking about. Who is the "she" you're referring to?

    Nightfox

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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to Nightfox on Fri Jan 8 01:55:28 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Mantrid on Thu Jan 07 2021 08:36 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Bob Roberts on Wed Jan 06 2021 12:01 am

    Ha, i mean she's no riker or spock that's for sure. her command would b

    It would be good to quote the part of the message you're replying to so we h some context to what you're talking about. Who is the "she" you're referrin to?

    Nightfox


    The conversation was around Tilly for the past few messages ----------------------
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  • From Phigan@VERT/FINALZON to Mantrid on Mon Jan 18 00:08:58 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Tracker1 on Sun Jan 03 2021 04:32 pm

    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space", then it's pretty good.

    ---
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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Phigan on Mon Jan 18 02:37:10 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Phigan to Mantrid on Sun Jan 17 2021 04:08 pm

    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space", then it's pretty good.

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash, rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to. I find Discovery an enjoyable and engaging story that is giving each character more depth as the seasons go on. Calling it "Gays in Space" is a stretch. Haven't you thought that maybe in the future people will stop looking at each other as straight or gay but instead fluid?

    Dream Master

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 06:16:29 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Phigan on Sun Jan 17 2021 06:37 pm

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash, rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to.

    Didn't Deep Space 9 do season arcs too?

    Also, Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs too.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to Phigan on Mon Jan 18 16:10:23 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Phigan to Mantrid on Sun Jan 17 2021 04:08 pm

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space", then it's pretty good.

    ha, honestly if something was called "gays in space" i'd expect something a lot more disco, like buck rogers turned up to 11, nothing below fabulous would be allowed
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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 16:13:54 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Phigan on Sun Jan 17 2021 06:37 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Phigan to Mantrid on Sun Jan 17 2021 04:08 pm

    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space then it's pretty good.

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash, rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to. I find Discovery an enjoyable and engaging sto that is giving each character more depth as the seasons go on. Calling it "Gays in Space" is a stretch. Haven't you thought that maybe in the future people will stop looking at each other as straight or gay but instead fluid?

    Dream Master


    i find that it's anti trek in that exploring social issues or ethical issues in a setting that scifi as a vehicle allows isnt there at all. putting in a gay relationship then calling it a day is as far as they go, then it's onto generic action scifi with explosions and lasers

    where's the exploration, the dilemmas, the character development, even DS9 managed very nuanced and multilayered characters even thought it was a very action-packed series around war (look at sisko's gradual slide into being a war criminal versus quark's observations on the real ethics of humanity when their backs are against the wall)
    ----------------------
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  • From Dream Master@VERT/CIAD to Nightfox on Mon Jan 18 18:20:11 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Sun Jan 17 2021 10:16 pm

    Didn't Deep Space 9 do season arcs too?

    Also, Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs too.

    I watched one or two seasons of DS9, didn't care for it. Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs and they are more enjoyable than individual episodes.

    Dream Master

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 20:45:25 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Nightfox on Mon Jan 18 2021 10:20 am

    I watched one or two seasons of DS9, didn't care for it. Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs and they are more enjoyable than individual episodes.

    Lately there have been times when I've felt tired of pretty much every TV show these days doing whole-season story arcs. You can't miss an episode and jump in anywhere anymore. And you either watch the whole season or nothing. Episodes can often end with a cliffhanger.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 01:00:08 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 2021 12:45 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Nightfox on Mon Jan 18 2021 10:20 am

    I watched one or two seasons of DS9, didn't care for it. Star Trek: Picard is doing
    whole-season arcs and they are more enjoyable than individual episodes.

    Lately there have been times when I've felt tired of pretty much every TV show these days do
    whole-season story arcs. You can't miss an episode and jump in anywhere anymore. And you
    either watch the whole season or nothing. Episodes can often end with a cliffhanger.

    Nightfox


    Not entirely related, but I feel like stepping in.

    I like epic long story arcs in general, but they pose a lots of problems. That is the reason
    why episodic series were the rule rather than the exception not so long ago: you could
    broadcast any episode in any moment and it made no difference to the audience. This allowed for
    Halloween specials and whatever have you, even.

    For the record that is why I got The Worth of Immortality organized the way it is. You get
    independent chapters that can be read in any order and are self-contained, but once you put
    them together they build a long arc.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Phigan on Tue Jan 19 00:55:00 2021
    Phigan wrote to Mantrid <=-

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space", then it's pretty good.

    Only if you throw reverb on a '70s announcer reading the title.


    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Dream Master on Tue Jan 19 00:57:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Phigan <=-

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the
    episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash,
    rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to.

    DS9.

    Probably my favorite show in the trek 'verse, primarily because of the dominion war story arc.


    The time and energy spent building the story line made "Into the Pale Moonlight" such a powerful episode. The couldn't have come close to that
    with a per-episode story model.

    Enterprise played with season-long story arcs with the Xindi story.
    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Mantrid on Tue Jan 19 00:58:00 2021
    Mantrid wrote to Phigan <=-

    ha, honestly if something was called "gays in space" i'd expect
    something a lot more disco, like buck rogers turned up to 11, nothing below fabulous would be allowed

    I like how you think.


    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Mantrid on Tue Jan 19 00:58:00 2021
    Mantrid wrote to Dream Master <=-

    where's the exploration, the dilemmas, the character development, even
    DS9 managed very nuanced and multilayered characters even thought it
    was a very action-packed series around war (look at sisko's gradual
    slide into being a war criminal versus quark's observations on the real ethics of humanity when their backs are against the wall)

    And Nog recuperating at Vic's. Loved that story.


    ... Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jan 19 05:44:25 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 2021 04:57 pm

    Enterprise played with season-long story arcs with the Xindi story.

    That was probably my least favorite season of Enterprise. Knowing the whole season was going to deal with the Xindi, I got a bit bored with the storyline after a little while, and I wanted to see something different.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 08:26:55 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 18 2021 09:44 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dream Master on Mon Jan 18 2021 04:57 pm

    Enterprise played with season-long story arcs with the Xindi story.

    That was probably my least favorite season of Enterprise. Knowing the whole season was going to deal with the Xindi, I got a bit bored with the storyline after a little while, and I wanted to see something different.


    enterprise was ran by some very disorganized confused people.
    it took so long to get its footing. they constantly changed the theme song around to appease tv guide's complaints.

    they ended it horribly with a holodeck episode.

    ---
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  • From Mantrid@VERT/UKBBS to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jan 19 16:52:06 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mantrid on Mon Jan 18 2021 04:58 pm

    And Nog recuperating at Vic's. Loved that story.

    oh yeah i forgot about that, an extended story around PTSD of someone who's character was defined how young and excitable he was.

    that's why I think some of these new shows aren't proper trek, they've gone a bit space opera and focus on the action and cgi.

    Now for the films, i approve on those being action-based, a lot of the trek films that tried to be extended episodes were utter crap so the recent star wars like ones are definitely welcome to me, but the episodes should go back to using scifi as a framework for very specific stories to be told and thoroughly investigated with respect to ethics
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Tue Jan 19 16:28:39 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 2021 12:26 am

    enterprise was ran by some very disorganized confused people.
    it took so long to get its footing. they constantly changed the theme song around to appease tv guide's complaints.

    they ended it horribly with a holodeck episode.

    I thought the first couple seasons were alright, and I thought season 4 was pretty good (though ending it like they did with the holodeck seemed a little weird).

    And I thought they only changed the theme song maybe once or twice.. I don't remember constant changes in the theme song.

    Nightfox

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Dream Master on Tue Jan 19 23:29:00 2021
    Dream Master wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Sun Jan 17 2021 10:16 pm

    Didn't Deep Space 9 do season arcs too?

    Also, Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs too.

    I watched one or two seasons of DS9, didn't care for it. Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs and they are more enjoyable than individual episodes.

    I actually didn't care for DS9 in the 90s as it was midway when I got home from the Navy. I later watched it when the show appeared on Netflix (years ago when I
    still had Netflix). I thoroughly enjoyed it. Sisko seemed, to me, to have realistic limitations and flaws that make us human. Picard only showed a few signs of that throughout TNG. Though I still thought Picard was the man.

    I'm not fond of the new Picard series. I really tried to enjoy it.

    Daniel

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 23:43:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to Dream Master <=-

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Nightfox on Mon Jan 18 2021 10:20 am

    I watched one or two seasons of DS9, didn't care for it. Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs and they are more enjoyable than individual episodes.

    Lately there have been times when I've felt tired of pretty much every
    TV show these days doing whole-season story arcs. You can't miss an episode and jump in anywhere anymore. And you either watch the whole season or nothing. Episodes can often end with a cliffhanger.

    I'm with you there brother. I miss the terminal episode. Though, honestly, some shows play better with an arc. It does bug me that they always end with a cliffhanger:

    Breaking Bad
    Better Call Saul
    The Mandalorian

    Some shows play well that have multi-episode arcs, but not season-wide

    Rebels
    The Clone Wars

    Other shows played better without one (albeit the inclusion of season-ending cliff-hangers):

    ST: Voyager
    ST: TNG
    Or any show really

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Tue Jan 19 20:40:50 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 2021 03:43 pm

    Other shows played better without one (albeit the inclusion of season-ending cliff-hangers):

    ST: Voyager
    ST: TNG
    Or any show really

    Some shows (including the above mentioned) had 2-part episodes. Those were the days when they had to say "To be continued..." at the end of the episode, because episodes were usually stand-alone stories. Star Trek: Enterprise had 3-episode story arcs a couple times.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Tue Jan 19 20:47:20 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Dream Master on Tue Jan 19 2021 03:29 pm

    I'm not fond of the new Picard series. I really tried to enjoy it.

    I feel like I enjoyed the new Picard series more than Discovery (at least, it seemed to have a better first season than Discovery's first season). But, even the first couple seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation weren't that great, so perhaps Picard will get better.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 01:28:09 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Jan 19 2021 08:28 am


    And I thought they only changed the theme song maybe once or twice.. I don't remember constant changes in the theme song.

    Nightfox

    i binge watched it last month. they changed it about 4 times. sometimes it was little changes of tempo.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 00:19:00 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Sun Jan 17 2021 10:16 pm

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Dream Master to Phigan on Sun Jan 17 2021 06:37 pm

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the episode follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash, rinse, and rep formula everyone got use to.

    Didn't Deep Space 9 do season arcs too?

    Also, Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs too.

    Nightfox

    Ron Moore, king of the serial story writing pointed out the reason for self-contained "push the reset button" each was because TV networks used to pre-empt scheduled programming, which eventually cause episodes to be shown
    out of order. Unless a change or addition to a character or crew member happened on the season opening episode, the issue had to be something that
    had to be resolved by the end of the episode. If a character had PTSD or a dr ug problem, it would have to be something that could be resolved in 42
    minutes and never re-occur or to have ever been noticable before that epiosde.

    My favorite "reset" nitpick is when a ship survives a battle and has received 87% structural damage and will require a tow to the next starbase, then is magically in tip top shape by the next week. Voyager would piss me off
    because of this. I recall one episode where the Hirogen turned then entire ship into large multi-deck holodecks for hunting down and reviving crew
    members over and over, then the next week the ship didn't appear to have been gutted and modified. I imagine if the Borg transform a ship into their technology, it can't be reset to defaults easily either.

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Mantrid on Wed Jan 20 00:21:00 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Phigan on Mon Jan 18 2021 08:10 am

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Phigan to Mantrid on Sun Jan 17 2021 04:08 pm

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space then it's pretty good.

    ha, honestly if something was called "gays in space" i'd expect something a more disco, like buck rogers turned up to 11, nothing below fabulous would b allowed
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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to calcmandan on Wed Jan 20 02:46:00 2021
    calcmandan wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Lately there have been times when I've felt tired of pretty much every
    TV show these days doing whole-season story arcs. You can't miss an episode and jump in anywhere anymore. And you either watch the whole season or nothing. Episodes can often end with a cliffhanger.

    I'm with you there brother. I miss the terminal episode. Though,
    honestly, some shows play better with an arc. It does bug me that
    they always end with a cliffhanger:

    Breaking Bad

    I didn't think this ended with a cliffhanger. Walt is dead, and Jesse
    gets away. His later doings are chronicled in the movie "El Camino".

    Better Call Saul

    Not over yet. I believe a new season is about to start, or will be
    opening on Netflix, soon. Need to check on the status of this...


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  • From Gamgee@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Wed Jan 20 04:56:00 2021
    MRO wrote to Nightfox <=-

    And I thought they only changed the theme song maybe once or twice.. I don't remember constant changes in the theme song.

    i binge watched it last month. they changed it about 4 times.
    sometimes it was little changes of tempo.

    Wrong. It changed ONCE, at the beginning of season 3.

    Have you ever been right about *anything*?


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Dream Master on Wed Jan 20 20:56:00 2021
    On 01-17-21 18:37, Dream Master wrote to Phigan <=-

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the
    episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash,

    Previous Trek has used arcs, most notably DS9, especially Season 7. And Enterprise had a season long arc with the Xindi. Anyway, I'm also enjoying Discovery. The ending of season 3 felt like Trek, with intellect and compassion being the factors for solving problems.

    rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to. I find Discovery an enjoyable and engaging story that is giving each character more depth
    as the seasons go on. Calling it "Gays in Space" is a stretch.
    Haven't you thought that maybe in the future people will stop looking
    at each other as straight or gay but instead fluid?

    One should hope that by the 23rd century, sexuality should be a non issue (except for the people you're actually dating or having sex with). :) Where I am, it has been moving in this direction for decades, at least as far as the general population in the street goes. Some scared little people are still carrying on, but they're a small and noisy (though potentially dangerous) minority.


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 20:57:00 2021
    On 01-17-21 22:16, Nightfox wrote to Dream Master <=-

    That's a little stretch. Discovery is the anti-Trek in that the episodes follow a season-based arc instead of a per-episode wash, rinse, and repeat formula everyone got use to.

    Didn't Deep Space 9 do season arcs too?

    DS9 really had a major arc from the end of season 2 to the end of the series, if you count the Dominion threat, and whthin that, there were many smaller arcs. Season 7 was basically one big arc in itself.

    Also, Star Trek: Picard is doing whole-season arcs too.

    Yep. :)


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Mantrid on Wed Jan 20 22:26:00 2021
    On 01-18-21 08:10, Mantrid wrote to Phigan <=-

    ha, honestly if something was called "gays in space" i'd expect
    something a lot more disco, like buck rogers turned up to 11, nothing below fabulous would be allowed

    ROFLMAO! :D


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  • From Vk3jed@VERT/FREEWAY to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 22:32:00 2021
    On 01-19-21 08:28, Nightfox wrote to MRO <=-

    I thought the first couple seasons were alright, and I thought season 4 was pretty good (though ending it like they did with the holodeck
    seemed a little weird).

    I think the axe fell queskly, so they had to throw that last episode together. It was a disappointment, after season 4 being so good. Enterprise really found its feet in season 4, and season 5 and beyond could have been really good, with the Earth-Romulan war firing up (from other Trek sources) around 2155-2156, which is immediately after season 4 ended.

    And I thought they only changed the theme song maybe once or twice.. I

    I only recall the once (at the start of season 3), not counting the two mirror universe episodes, which had their own theme music.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moondog on Wed Jan 20 04:52:30 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 2021 04:19 pm

    My favorite "reset" nitpick is when a ship survives a battle and has received 87% structural damage and will require a tow to the next starbase, then is magically in tip top shape by the next week. Voyager would piss me off because of this. I recall one episode where the Hirogen turned then entire ship into large multi-deck holodecks for hunting down and reviving crew members over and over, then the next week the ship didn't appear to have been gutted and modified. I imagine if the Borg transform a ship into their technology, it can't be reset to defaults easily either.

    Yeah, sometimes it seemed like things happened too fast. But I never really assumed there was exactly a week of time between episodes, even if that's how they were aired - Sometimes it seemed like one episode could take place over a timespan of hours, days, or even weeks or more. And since shows then were single-story episodes, I figured the in-universe time between episodes could be variable (though each season still represented about a year of time in the show).

    Nightfox

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Gamgee on Wed Jan 20 22:15:00 2021
    Gamgee wrote to calcmandan <=-

    calcmandan wrote to Nightfox <=-

    Lately there have been times when I've felt tired of pretty much every
    TV show these days doing whole-season story arcs. You can't miss an episode and jump in anywhere anymore. And you either watch the whole season or nothing. Episodes can often end with a cliffhanger.

    I'm with you there brother. I miss the terminal episode. Though,
    honestly, some shows play better with an arc. It does bug me that
    they always end with a cliffhanger:

    Breaking Bad

    I didn't think this ended with a cliffhanger. Walt is dead, and Jesse gets away. His later doings are chronicled in the movie "El Camino".

    I was talking about the ends of episodes, not teh series. El Camino was okay.

    Better Call Saul

    Not over yet. I believe a new season is about to start, or will be opening on Netflix, soon. Need to check on the status of this...

    THey still end with multi-arcs always in mid-stream. There's always something nagging Saul that will eventually resolve itself.

    Daniel

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 22:23:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Tue Jan 19 2021 03:43 pm

    Other shows played better without one (albeit the inclusion of season-ending cliff-hangers):

    ST: Voyager
    ST: TNG
    Or any show really

    Some shows (including the above mentioned) had 2-part episodes. Those were the days when they had to say "To be continued..." at the end of
    the episode, because episodes were usually stand-alone stories. Star Trek: Enterprise had 3-episode story arcs a couple times.

    By the time Enterprise came out, I was burned out on star trek. Having grown up with it, and at one point, there was not a single hour of the evening where there wasn't a star trek playing.

    I may give it a shot at some point.

    Daniel

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  • From hollowone@VERT/AMIGAC to Phigan on Thu Jan 21 19:38:00 2021
    Phigan wrote to Mantrid <=-

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Mantrid to Tracker1 on Sun Jan 03 2021 04:32 pm

    flat and uncomfortable, has the be the
    biggest "why are you here" character in
    discovery, and this is discovery so
    that's saying an awful lot

    Just pretend it's not a Trek show and it's actually called "Gays In Space", then it's pretty good.

    I liked season 1 of Discovery although I saw obvious flaws built in.
    I found it refreshing but not worth continuing for longer.

    I tried 2-3 episodes of season 2 and stopped following it, for no strong reason.. just got bored.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Thu Jan 21 16:21:24 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 2021 02:23 pm

    By the time Enterprise came out, I was burned out on star trek. Having grown up with it, and at one point, there was not a single hour of the evening where there wasn't a star trek playing.

    I may give it a shot at some point.

    I've never felt burned out with Star Trek. I've always liked it and never really felt like I got tired of it.

    On the other hand, there are some other long-running shows that I haven't watched in years, such as The Simpsons and South Park..

    Nightfox

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  • From Blackdiamond@VERT/ABBBS to hollowone on Fri Jan 22 01:51:53 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: hollowone to Phigan on Thu Jan 21 2021 11:38:00

    I mean, it's not like DS9 wasn't "Gays In Space" and also absolutely baller as a show.

    People's memories are too short :P

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Moondog on Fri Jan 22 01:31:16 2021
    On 1/4/2021 11:06 PM, Moondog wrote:
    My biggest issue is the character development for the lead character is
    absolutely absent. Time after time after time this character just does
    what they decide is best, completely ignoring the chain of command or
    anything resembling an honor code. It's probably the only thing that's
    consistent in her character. She's like the a concentrated abstraction
    of everything wrong with youth in someone who should have learned better
    at this point. Most of the rest of the cast are better written at least.

    I used to have a supervisor who liked slogans, such as "learning by doing," and "do it right the first time." I tried to explain part of learning is the bitter sting of making mistakes, and doing things right the first time doesn't prove you're learing anything except you haven't made a mistake yet. He had nothing to throw back at me.

    Making mistakes is natural.. but making the same mistake time after time
    after time, and never really learning from them? It really didn't start
    to tick me off until this most recent season as she repeated all the
    same mistakes that she had done before... yeah, some turned out
    differently, it still isn't right.

    --
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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Bob Roberts on Fri Jan 22 01:32:31 2021
    On 1/5/2021 1:06 PM, Bob Roberts wrote:

    And they made her #1. Shes a freaking Ensign and now she's second to the Captain. It makes no sense! The other bridge officers are like happy and smiling that she got the job. Oh, I'm sure they're thrilled that their
    years of starfleet career just got overlooked so some chatty redhead could run the ship.

    Pretty much what they did for the movie reboot with Kirk though.

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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Nightfox on Sat Jan 23 01:02:50 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Nightfox to calcmandan on Thu Jan 21 2021 08:21 am

    On the other hand, there are some other long-running shows that I haven't watched in years, such as
    The Simpsons and South Park..

    Awww. Give South Park another shot. Maybe try "The South Park Pandemic Special" on HBOMax.

    I burned out on the Simpsons awhile ago. They still get recorded but the number of episodes waiting for me keeps growing and growing.

    Bob Roberts

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Bob Roberts on Sat Jan 23 17:47:47 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: Bob Roberts to Nightfox on Fri Jan 22 2021 05:02 pm

    On the other hand, there are some other long-running shows that I
    haven't watched in years, such as The Simpsons and South Park..

    Awww. Give South Park another shot. Maybe try "The South Park Pandemic Special" on HBOMax.

    It's not that I didn't like it. I just stopped watching it after a while.

    I burned out on the Simpsons awhile ago. They still get recorded but the number of episodes waiting for me keeps growing and growing.

    I've heard The Simpsons isn't as good as it used to be. I may have stopped watching it before it got "bad".

    Nightfox

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  • From calcmandan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Sat Jan 23 14:38:00 2021
    Nightfox wrote to calcmandan <=-

    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Wed Jan 20 2021 02:23 pm

    By the time Enterprise came out, I was burned out on star trek. Having grown up with it, and at one point, there was not a single hour of the evening where there wasn't a star trek playing.

    I may give it a shot at some point.

    I've never felt burned out with Star Trek. I've always liked it and
    never really felt like I got tired of it.

    On the other hand, there are some other long-running shows that I
    haven't watched in years, such as The Simpsons and South Park..

    I think I aged out of South Park and the Simpsons (which started when I was in high school mind you).

    I never got into the simpsons but my wife used to check every week for new episodes, but that stopped around 2008. I haven't seen South Park since about then. We cancelled cable in 2010. Cancelled Netflix in 2017. Talking about cancelling Prime at the moment. We got nice antenna for broadcast tv but neither
    of us watch that at all. Too many ads and most broadcast shows suck butthole.

    I buy most dvd's at goodwill. And for anything fresh, there's putlocker and redbox. Yeah we're weird.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to calcmandan on Mon Jan 25 21:30:46 2021
    Re: Re: Any thoughts on Disco
    By: calcmandan to Nightfox on Sat Jan 23 2021 06:38 am

    I think I aged out of South Park and the Simpsons (which started when I was in high school mind you).

    I never got into the simpsons but my wife used to check every week for new episodes, but that stopped around 2008. I haven't seen South Park since about then.

    I was 9 years old when The Simpsons started. I think I only really watched The Simpsons regularly (or semi-regularly) for about 5 years or so. I think the last episode of The Simpsons I actually sat down and watched completely was in 1994. I've seen bits of it and maybe an episode or two since then.

    I watched South Park in 1999 to 2000 a bit and haven't watched it regularly since then.

    We cancelled cable in 2010. Cancelled Netflix in 2017. Talking
    about cancelling Prime at the moment. We got nice antenna for broadcast tv but neither
    of us watch that at all. Too many ads and most broadcast shows suck butthole.

    I still like to watch some shows on antenna TV. Sometimes I like to watch game shows, and I like catching the news sometimes when I have some free time, at least for local news. I guess I'm used to antenna TV having ads, since I watched antenna TV pretty much my whole life. Streaming is a relatively new thing, and even cable TV could have ads. I do like being able to watch a show without ads though.

    I buy most dvd's at goodwill. And for anything fresh, there's putlocker and redbox. Yeah we're weird.

    I don't see why that's weird. Sometimes I like to browse DVD & blu-ray movies at Goodwill - though I've noticed sometimes they're older editions, so I'll sometimes check that before buying one. Same with music on CDs.

    I've noticed it seems like it's becoming harder to find movies released on optical disc formats sometimes. Maybe it's just now the market is going (I've heard people are not buying them as much as they used to). I recently had heard Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure was released on 4K blu-ray in the UK but not in the US. And I was at the store the other day and saw Bill & Ted Face the Music on regular blu-ray but not on 4K blu-ray. But apparently you can buy it on 4K on Amazon Prime streaming. I suppose as long as you could download the video file and play it any time you want and without DRM, I wouldn't be totally opposed to buying movies that are available as a video file rather than a disc.

    I used to rent movies from Redbox, but I haven't for quite a while. And
    I'm not aware of Putlocker?

    Nightfox

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