multimedia players. You can survive with less than 1GB if you are
careful. The r eal RAM killer of these days is modern web
browsers. The Web sucks. Depending on your use case you can go with lightweight browsers that only support the most basic sites
or use regular browsers with many functions disabled...

Yessir, the only thing that ever tripped up an RPi 4 (1gb) was that Ubuntu
Mate install.. and yer right, it was the chromium instance... it was actually chugging along, mostly ok, with just Mate going...

Doesn't really matter, I was just playing with that Ubuntu Mate install - because you can... but the 8gb can slice thru it with no issues. I'm just amazed at these boxes. They are very nice now a days.

I run a FreeBSD RPi, and its an OS that I wouldn't really have had any experience with... so for a $75 (or less) machine be the vehicle for
learning; thats awesome.

I'm pretty sure ARM is already the most widely used (popular) microprocessor architecture - but I suppose the margin could increase

I don't doubt that.

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean...
actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking in a broader sense...

Anyway, if ARM is mroe prevalent even on the server side that would surprise me-- but I know ya'll probably have more experience than me. :P I just play with the things.

pAULIE42o

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:30 am

I run a FreeBSD RPi, and its an OS that I wouldn't really have had any experience with... so for a $75 (or less) machine be the vehicle for learning; thats awesome.

Well, the original goal¤ of these boards was to become education platforms, so I guess they succeeded :-)

I should deploy one as a PoS (Point of Sale), see if it can cope with the
heat.

--
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:32 am

I'm pretty sure ARM is already the most widely used (popular) microprocessor architecture - but I suppose the margin could incre

I don't doubt that.

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean... actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking in a broader sense...

There are efforts at creating ARM servers. But if you think about it, ARM is in most consumer phones and tablets, so you have a high quantity of processors there. Not to mention I'd expect many embedded platforms to run ARM. I think most my routers run MIPS though.

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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:32 am

I'm pretty sure ARM is already the most widely used (popular)
microprocessor architecture - but I suppose the margin could
increase

I don't doubt that.

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean... actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking in a broader sense...

Pretty much all the mobile devices (smart phones & tablets) out there use ARM chips. And just for consumers, it seems there may be more people using smart phones & tablets than desktop PCs and laptops..

Nightfox

---
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*** Quoting Nightfox from a message to paulie420 ***

Pretty much all the mobile devices (smart phones & tablets) out there
use ARM chips. And just for consumers, it seems there may be more
people using smart phones & tablets than desktop PCs and laptops..

It seems ARM is making it's way to the business world as well.

We just upgraded our ERP system at work and got all new forklift computers & handheld scanners for the warehouse. The old systems were Windows CE w/
Inetl Atom CPUs while the new ones are all Android based w/ Snapdragon 660 CPUs. To your point these would indeed count as mobile devices as well.

Jay

... Celery farmers play the stalk market.

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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:30 am

multimedia players. You can survive with less than 1GB if you are careful. The r eal RAM killer of these days is modern web
browsers. The Web sucks. Depending on your use case you can go with lightweight browsers that only support the most basic sites
or use regular browsers with many functions disabled...

Yessir, the only thing that ever tripped up an RPi 4 (1gb) was that Ubuntu Mate install.. and yer right, it was the chromium instance... it was actuall chugging along, mostly ok, with just Mate going...

Doesn't really matter, I was just playing with that Ubuntu Mate install - because you can... but the 8gb can slice thru it with no issues. I'm just amazed at these boxes. They are very nice now a days.

I run a FreeBSD RPi, and its an OS that I wouldn't really have had any experience with... so for a $75 (or less) machine be the vehicle for learning; thats awesome.

Awhile back I bought a Pine Rock64 sbc for feeding a display at a non-profit
I volunteer time with, and it's spec's similarly to a Pi3 except they sold wit h 4gb. Mate ran slowly on it, however Armbian ran much better on it. It runs
a Powerpoint slide show, and Libre Office runs beter with 4gb.

---
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Nightfox to paulie420 on Sun Jul 12 2020 10:30 am

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:32 am

I'm pretty sure ARM is already the most widely used (popular)
microprocessor architecture - but I suppose the margin could
increase

I don't doubt that.

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean.. actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking in broader sense...

Pretty much all the mobile devices (smart phones & tablets) out there use AR

Nightfox

Recently I saw an 80 core ARM cpu come out, however it didn't score well because the benchmark tests they use were more for Intel and AMD
architectures. All that means to me is the scope of why it was designed and handles single threads versus hyper threading may be releated to a purpose
the processor may have been intended for.

It's definitely a server processor, with cloud other web services in mind rather than what people would do on a desktop or high end workstation.

---
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On 12 Jul 2020, Nightfox said the following...

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking i broader sense...

Pretty much all the mobile devices (smart phones & tablets) out there
use ARM ch ips. And just for consumers, it seems there may be more
people using smart phon es & tablets than desktop PCs and laptops..

Ok... I understand those devices; I think I should have originally said that
I hope ARM desktop OSes to continue to become better as that side of ARM
grows.

I'd be a happy boy if there continued to be more and more ARM architecture desktop OS softwares and distros.

And theres been a lot of advancement just in the RPi space over the last few years ...

Awhile back I bought a Pine Rock64 sbc for feeding a display at a non-profit I volunteer time with, and it's spec's similarly to a Pi3 except they sold wit h 4gb. Mate ran slowly on it, however Armbian ran much better on it. It runs a Powerpoint slide show, and Libre Office
runs beter with 4gb.

I also have a couple Rock64s, that I bought when Raspberry didn't cover the higher end single board market; one was used at a digital display, too - another as a Mirror display.

:P The 8gb RPi has been impressive so far.. and this one is going in a cool pelican case. I recently bought like 10 pelican cases of differing sizes,
that used to be aviation communications boxes... so already instale is a
hefty power button, charging wires, charges port & audio - all of a nice
metal plate on the rear of the cases. Gonna create a bugout RPi; with kiwix offline data, linux & a touchscreen... an ethernet switch and battery bank inside. (batteries collected from the flight comms kits.)

So far, the 8gb model is the best I've used - and most of the RPi issues are gone. I'm about to do the SSD boot modification and undo that bottleneck too.

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 11:27 pm

Pretty much all the mobile devices (smart phones & tablets) out
there use ARM ch ips. And just for consumers, it seems there may be
more people using smart phon es & tablets than desktop PCs and
laptops..

Ok... I understand those devices; I think I should have originally said that I hope ARM desktop OSes to continue to become better as that side of ARM grows.

It will be interesting to see if ARM can expand more into desktops & such. It seems weird though, after the x86 architecture has been around in desktops and servers for so long. A switch to a different type of CPU would mean breaking backwards compatibility with a lot of software. An emulator could be created to handle the transition for a time, but eventually you'd still need to use emulation to use old software if you wanted to.

I've heard Apple already plans to replace Intel with ARM-based processors in their Macs. And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

Nightfox

---
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*** Quoting paulie420 from a message to Moondog ***

So far, the 8gb model is the best I've used - and most of the RPi
issues are gone. I'm about to do the SSD boot modification and undo
that bottleneck too.

Thanks! I missed that they released the update to allow USB booting on the Pi4. I've been using the workaround up until now, I'll have to switch over to eliminate the SD card.

Jay

... If is is is not & is not is is is is not is?

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On 13 Jul 2020, DaiTengu said the following...

I have a RPi3 and an 8GB RPi4. the 4 was an upgrade for my RetroPie, which I to ol around on every few months.

Yea, I had a pretty nice huge RetroPie build... and I haven't stuck the card
in the new 8gb box yet. I anticipate that it will run better, I have only
used it on a 1gb version so far. I'm excited to get some NeoGeo going... but gosh, that requires an arcade 2p joystick project that I have on the back burner... all fun stuff man.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my 3, I may set it up at my cottage to do some monitoring (if it goes offline due to power outage, I know how long, whi ch will let me know if I need to throw the stuff in
the refrigerator out), and m aybe set up a c

It'll definitely work for that. Heck, with a little linux wizardry you can
have it restart any apps or scripts and report home. The versatility with
these small boards is just great.

DaiTengu

pAULIE42o
.........

On 13 Jul 2020, Nightfox said the following...

Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb baby!
By: DaiTengu to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 08:10 am

Apple is switching over from x86 CPUs to building their own ARM processesor in their machines starting at the end of this year. So yo probably quite correct.

I built a hackintosh computer a long time ago and had considered doing
so again, but I guess there wouldn't be much point in doing that now.

Nightfox

I hear the hackintosh scene is quite concerned about the switch to ARM,
lol... I think you'd still get one lifecycle out of any hackintosh built
RIGHT NOW. But... yea; right now. :P

pAULIE42o

On 13 Jul 2020, Gamgee said the following...

DaiTengu wrote to paulie420 <=-

I have a RPi3 and an 8GB RPi4. the 4 was an upgrade for my
RetroPie, which I tool around on every few months.

I've got an RPi4 (the 4GB model) that I'd like to play with
RetroPie on... One question I've got that you may know - how do
you plug an NES controller into the Pi? (it's not a USB
connector). Thanks for info.

Well, I know they make an 8bit-USB plug but I think most people use an Amazon knock off; you can order an exact look alike of an NES, SNES, N64 controller
on the cheap...

I use xbox 360 controllers, with a wireless USB connector I bought on
Amazon... I had 4 of them so it just made sense.

pAULIE42o
.........

paulie420 wrote to Gamgee <=-

I have a RPi3 and an 8GB RPi4. the 4 was an upgrade for my
RetroPie, which I tool around on every few months.

I've got an RPi4 (the 4GB model) that I'd like to play with
RetroPie on... One question I've got that you may know - how do
you plug an NES controller into the Pi? (it's not a USB
connector). Thanks for info.

Well, I know they make an 8bit-USB plug but I think most people
use an Amazon knock off; you can order an exact look alike of an
NES, SNES, N64 controller on the cheap...

Ahhh, I see those now. Looks like a winner, thanks.



... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:32 am

I'm pretty sure ARM is already the most widely used (popular) microprocessor architecture - but I suppose the margin could increase

I don't doubt that.

Not doubting ya'll, but where are all those ARM chips at then? I mean... actual full server computers or home computers? Or are you speaking in a broader sense...

In a broader sense, ARM processors are found in everything else (TVs, setbox boxes/media dongles, phones, networking equipment, tablets, talking tubes, smart plugs, cameras, etc.) to a greater degree than any other CPU architecture. And ARM is making inroads into server and PCs/laptops (e.g. chromebooks) and has been for a while now. I'm sure there'll be a long fight with x86 which I hope nobody every fully "wins".

Anyway, if ARM is mroe prevalent even on the server side that would surprise me-- but I know ya'll probably have more experience than me. :P I just play with the things.

No, x86 is still the most prevalent server architecture. That could change though, pretty easily.

digital man

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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Nightfox to paulie420 on Mon Jul 13 2020 10:58 am

And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with
an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

They could just update/re-launch Windows RT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT


digital man

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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Jul 14 2020 08:08 pm

And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with
an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

They could just update/re-launch Windows RT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

From what I remember, Windows RT was a flop. I don't think it did well in the market. I think one of the reasons is that it only had the new "Metro" UI and didn't have a desktop, which was probably confusing for a lot of consumers. This new Windows 10 for ARM that I've heard about has the regular Windows desktop and can run desktop Windows software on ARM.

Considering Windows RT didn't sell well, I'm not sure if Microsoft would want to re-use the RT name.

Nightfox

---
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Digital Man to paulie420 on Tue Jul 14 2020 08:04 pm

No, x86 is still the most prevalent server architecture. That could change though, pretty easily.

Apple has changed the processors in their Macs (and they're about to do that again). Also, it seems that most consumers aren't even aware of what kind of processor is in the devices they use. I don't think most people have even heard of ARM, let alone know what ARM is. I've also known some people who had never heard of AMD (though they might know about Intel).

Nightfox

---
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Digital Man wrote to paulie420 <=-

In a broader sense, ARM processors are found in everything else (TVs, setbox boxes/media dongles, phones, networking equipment, tablets,
talking tubes, smart plugs, cameras, etc.) to a greater degree than any other CPU architecture. And ARM is making inroads into server and PCs/laptops (e.g. chromebooks) and has been for a while now. I'm sure there'll be a long fight with x86 which I hope nobody every fully
"wins".

As soon as ARM Macs proliferate, My guess is that the landscape
changes as the number and visibility of ARM chips increases.

Wasn't there an ARM port of Windows 10 for IoT dev? I could have
sworn MS made at least a trimmed-down version available to
developers.

Anyway, if ARM is mroe prevalent even on the server side that would surprise me-- but I know ya'll probably have more experience than me. :P I just play with the things.

No, x86 is still the most prevalent server architecture. That could
change though, pretty easily.

There were some attempts at low-power, efficient ARM servers a while
ago, if memory serves.

digital man

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Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with
an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

They could just update/re-launch Windows RT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

I could finally have that Surface BBS I always wanted!





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On 15 Jul 2020, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

Wasn't there an ARM port of Windows 10 for IoT dev? I could have
sworn MS made at least a trimmed-down version available to
developers.

Yes, there was... and its still kicking around as a viable option for the RPi (and other ARM products, but..) there is still a version available.
It certainly isn't the windoze that folks use daily, however.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Nightfox to Digital Man on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:57 am

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: Digital Man to Nightfox on Tue Jul 14 2020 08:08 pm

And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with
an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

They could just update/re-launch Windows RT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

From what I remember, Windows RT was a flop. I don't think it did well in t
for ARM that I've heard about has the regular Windows desktop and can run d

Considering Windows RT didn't sell well, I'm not sure if Microsoft would wan

Nightfox

I remember seeing something about Win10 on an ARM sbc. IIRC it was very barebones, set up to run an app or two and select processes.

---
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Wed Jul 15 2020 07:32 am

Digital Man wrote to paulie420 <=-

In a broader sense, ARM processors are found in everything else (TVs, setbox boxes/media dongles, phones, networking equipment, tablets, talking tubes, smart plugs, cameras, etc.) to a greater degree than any other CPU architecture. And ARM is making inroads into server and PCs/laptops (e.g. chromebooks) and has been for a while now. I'm sure there'll be a long fight with x86 which I hope nobody every fully "wins".

As soon as ARM Macs proliferate, My guess is that the landscape
changes as the number and visibility of ARM chips increases.

Wasn't there an ARM port of Windows 10 for IoT dev? I could have
sworn MS made at least a trimmed-down version available to
developers.

Yeah, even for rPi.

Anyway, if ARM is mroe prevalent even on the server side that would surprise me-- but I know ya'll probably have more experience than me. :P I just play with the things.

No, x86 is still the most prevalent server architecture. That could change though, pretty easily.

There were some attempts at low-power, efficient ARM servers a while
ago, if memory serves.

I don't think they went away.

digital man

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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Wed Jul 15 2020 07:32 am

As soon as ARM Macs proliferate, My guess is that the landscape
changes as the number and visibility of ARM chips increases.

It will be interesting to see how that goes. And with Microsoft making Windows 10 for ARM now too, I'm wondering if ARM-based PCs will start to become more common, and how that might affect the home-built PC market. I've always liked building my own desktop PC, but so far I haven't seen any ARM-based CPUs (or motherboards to support them) that you can go out and buy to build your own ARM-based PC.

Wasn't there an ARM port of Windows 10 for IoT dev? I could have
sworn MS made at least a trimmed-down version available to
developers.

I haven't followed Windows 10 for ARM much, but I do remmember seeing an article a while ago saying Microsoft had developed a version of Windows 10 for ARM that can run desktop apps. I heard it also has a 32-bit x86 emulator to allow it to run 32-bit desktop Intel software on ARM.

Nightfox

---
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Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb
By: DaiTengu to Gamgee on Wed Jul 22 2020 11:20 pm

Re: Re: Raspberry Pi 4.. 8gb baby!
By: Gamgee to DaiTengu on Mon Jul 13 2020 02:51 pm

I've got an RPi4 (the 4GB model) that I'd like to play with
RetroPie on... One question I've got that you may know - how do
you plug an NES controller into the Pi? (it's not a USB
connector). Thanks for info.

You don't. At least, there's no way to do it that i know of. You can buy U

For most things though I just use a PS4 controller

DaiTengu

... If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I've seen USB "replicas" of vintage controllers made for emulator use.

---
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On 7/15/2020 7:32 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

Wasn't there an ARM port of Windows 10 for IoT dev? I could have
sworn MS made at least a trimmed-down version available to
developers.

Windows RT ran on ARM... there's also a current port of Windows 10 for
ARM. There's images for the RPi even, though network and audio drivers
are lacking.

There were some attempts at low-power, efficient ARM servers a while
ago, if memory serves.

There are many current attempts at ARM servers, for the one's you can
buy, they've tended to be more expensive than x86 resource equivalents
though.

There are also cloud options:

https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/a1/


--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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On 7/15/2020 7:33 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:

Digital Man wrote to Nightfox <=-

> And I've heard Microsoft has an ARM version of Windows 10 (with
> an emulator that will run 32-bit Intel x86 software on ARM)..

DM> They could just update/re-launch Windows RT:
DM> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

I could finally have that Surface BBS I always wanted!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windowsinsiderpreviewARM64

--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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