Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Dennisk on Sun Aug 16 2020 09:03 am
You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve r world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and pove in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?
HusTler
Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm
The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while
ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come
up.
I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when there was no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity with a distributed consciousness.
--
"Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?
it's a class called home economics.
you probably took it.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Sun Aug 16 2020 10:04 pm
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun Aug 16 2020 08:32 pm
He joined right out of high school, so he never had much in the form
of correspence or affairs of his own that came through the mail, and
just about everything else he did was through online banking and
online bill pay. When I was in high school in the late 80's, there
was a class targetted towards the non-college crowd called family
living. It taught how to balance a checkbook, create a budget, and
how to operate within that budget, and other domestic stuff. I feel
that type of course is essential, because some students are ready to
leave home so fast after they graduate, they aren't likely to sit
down with their parents or their parents are poorly equipped to
teach them these skills.
it's a class called home economics.
you probably took it.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to Ogg on Mon Aug 17 2020 10:32 am
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Ogg to Andeddu on Sun Aug 16 2020 06:13 pm
Would you be the first to volunteer to have your free will removed?
I don't think it would be that bad. You'd live a life of willful ignora in a world with no human caused suffering. If it's a world like 1984, t no... because life would be miserable and I would have neither free wil nor any rights. If it's the benevolant scientific dictatorship depicted Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, where people are brain-washed and heav conditioned at an early age, but live pleasent lives, then yes... sign up!
up!
most people's free will is pretty fucked up as it is. having your free will
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm
The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come up.
I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when there w no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity with a distributed consciousness.
--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es
On 08-17-20 15:16, Warpslide wrote to Andeddu <=-
I'd love to see new Star Trek series that focuses on the origins of The Borg.
Star Trek: Collective
Maybe a decent movie would do the trick there. :)
Or maybe one about the origins of The Q: Star Trek: Continuum
Now that would be intriguing!
Jay
"Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. N
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:27 am
The idea is to make us all the same. Once we all believe in the same thing, and we revere certain societal axioms, human civilisation will move in a single direction... rather than being disparate parts of a machine constantly tearing away at itself with unecessary conflict.
Yes, we will have to rely on some kind of dictator to make this happen, as democracy is not a good model for "getting stuff done". But this would occur naturally should there ever be a world government. In that sense, we could achieve either a utopia, or potentially a dystopia.
God, that sounds awful. The worst, most murderous regimes have this as their goal. Removing those that don't fit in.
Make us the same as whose vision? Which dictator? Mine? Which axioms? Please don't tell me modern ones, I'll vomit!
The system we have right now doesn't work. You know that, I know that. This World is imperfect, if only we could wipe away the impurities.
This kind of Utopia would only work under the direction of a kind and benevolant World Dictator. A future of heavy automation and resource allocation, designed to uplift the poorest of those in society is
surely preferable to the corrupt petty squabbling we have in this
present day.
Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia,
Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why
we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit
the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the
framework of a good and humane system of control.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:39 am
I think that ideology and culture is to some degree, genetically determined in subtle ways. Perhaps not significantly, but I would be surprised if it wasn't.
Star Trek is science fiction, based upon contemporary Western ideals which have been held by a small minority of the human population, for a tiny fraction of history (these ideals will become outdated soon). It is just a story. You may as well be using The Cat in the Hat the determine the future history of humanity, the latter is more realistic (I've seen a cat wear a hat).
Obviously my thoughts on the future of humanity are heavily influnced
by Western ideals, those ideals are all I know. If our current Western ideals become outdated, what do you think will replace them?
My projections of humanity's future are based on the beliefs of people like Musk, Gates along with those weilding the power in Silicon Valley. Technology WILL play an all encompassing part of our lives, there's no arguing against that. Then again, US-China relations could disintegrate into a nuclear war, killing us all.
Anything can happen!
Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Underminer on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:57 pm
But it would change our decision making, wouldn't it? And decisions would be based more on an external force, than an internal drive, right?
Maybe, maybe not. We're already essentially computers. We receive an
input in the form of stimulus or information, and our decision making process is a set of chemical and electrical interactions. Yeah, the
wiring may end up different, but the fundamental process may not change much and be more akin to what would happen now if you had
more/different information available. ---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to HusTler on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:22 am
You guys watch and read too much Sci-Fi. Use your brain power to solve real world problems and stop debating futuristic nonense you've read about or saw in a movie. ;-) Do you have any ideas on how to eliminate racism and poverty in the world? Can AI and biological limbs help society with these issues?
Greed is a bigger problem than those two.
In a way, some of the worst behaviors and conditions are rooted in
basic emoti ons. One of the things hat futurists look at more than politicians and social planners is the concept of culture. Rascism and poverty are products of culture. You can invest loads of money or push for improving education into a depressed area, but things won't change until you change the overall culture these areas created on their own. While I'm not a fna of Oprah Winfrey or any of her cult creations, her girls school in Africa is an attempt to build these girls up into self confident people who are not trapped by their surroundings. There was controversy a few year's back about visitation rights by these girl's parents. The claim was the school was stealing their souls or some
crazy idea like that because they were isolated from the thing their family believed made them who they are. Apparently rape, incest, and liberal amounts of physical and verbal abuse are ingredients they feel their daughters were missing. It's hard to change a culture that does
not want to be changed.
On 08-17-20 23:53, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved
and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been
allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia,
Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why
we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit
the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the
framework of a good and humane system of control.
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a
benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined,
removed, killed by the less benevolent?
Where I question these approaches is neurodiversity also means a potential for out of the box ideas, whether in a practical, problem solving sense, or a purely ideological sense. And some of those ideas might be what we need to survive the next calamity (after COVID-19 ;) ).
Collectivist/Humanist/Communist governments tend not to work very well, especially in a vacuum. Even China wouldn't be doing very well without international trade. It's that negotiation from opposition that enables commerce, which enables growth. Without it, things tend to sink to the lowest common denominator. Also, TOS was definitely about commerce with other planets and the Federation was more of a common defense pact,
which allows things to work.
Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely low scale.
"Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with. No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?
I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating."
Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.
That says it will be done, not how it can be done.
Yep, some engineer wants to breed us all into being mindless, passive sheep, and beleives they are so much better than the rest of use they will protect us by breeding out "disagreeable" features rather than engineer a society where the benefits of society reinforce taking responsibility for ourselves.
I'm amazed no one has brought up the scifi film Gattaca yet.
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?
I think Musk is disconnected with reality to some degree, as is most of Silicon Valley. These people are the last people I would go to, to get advice on where humanity should go. Why would you think someone who lives in a bubble, would understand how the world works? These are business people, and they have geared their knowledge towards their trade.
What will replace our ideals? I'm not sure, but we can see that populism is a growing force, people are rejecting some ideals. The EU is falling apart, the TPP is dead, people are wanting less and less this future of global hegemony. We saw Brexit, and we will see soon, I think a move away from "diversity" as an ideal. We are halfway there, as this idea now smells of a bad religion and is a source of conflict. We will begin to realise that
The reason that I think these implants are dumb ideas, is because the person making the idea lacks self-awareness and understanding of the human conditions.
Our problems aren't information, knowledge, they are behavioural, and people promote things for self serving interests, INCLUDING ideas such as implants and dictatorships of the benevolent. Everyone who imagines a utopia, imagines one as per THEIR model. So it is automatically oppressive, because it is person X who is imposing THEIR vision on us all. I for example, want to live in a world where different peoples still exist, where nations DO favour their own over others and resist homogenisation. I'm for the powerfull bucking social and moral trends (as long as they don't complete power), for struggle, conflict, antagonism. Maybe, just maybe some people with 'deplorable' views are actually holding views that make our world better, but we are too prejudiced to see it. The existence of that antagonism is good, as long as there is balance.
Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. Our world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manage themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Arelor to Warpslide on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:44 pm
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 03:16 pm
The series finale could end with the Borg Queen being assembled while
ominous music plays and then the screen fades to black & credits come
up.
I hate the Borg Queen as a concept. The Borg worked much better when th was no central authority and there was only The Borg, a single entity w a distributed consciousness.
--
a hive needs a queen
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm
"Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex wit No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer n having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?
i know it might not be as good but in that situation you could give up
rosey palm
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?
No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely different, as does our processing. We don't work in binary, or definite, strict logic. O brain uses a vastly different model, so any comparison which goes into more depth than "electrical signals" is useless. Computers don't understand context, aren't conscious, and cannot think. They don't fall for visual or auditory illusions.
I think when we map how the brain works, we will see that it works using an alien computation model to what our machines do.
Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. O world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manag themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.
On 08-17-20 23:53, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.
Q (as in the most frequent member of the Q Contunum seen on the show) did ha his moments. :)
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.
I didn't think of mthat, but yes that makes sense.
Dennisk wrote to Andeddu <=-
Yes, such as system could be used for evil... Bolshevism in Russia, Nazi Germany, The Khmer Rogue in Cambodia, for instance... which is why we need an unshakeable consititution, a constitution that would limit the authority of any dictator in charge, and lock them into the framework of a good and humane system of control.
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined,
removed, killed by the less benevolent?
Great point - it has NEVER worked, and never would, for just the
reasons you mention above.
This Andeddu person is seriously delusional. Over the edge, even.
... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 2020 04:54 pm
it's a class called home economics.
you probably took it.
I took a home economics class in 8th grade. How to address an envelope was not something they talked about in that class, but I already knew how to do it by then anyway. Also, the class was an elective; it wasn't a required class.
The main things I remember doing in that class were some basic cooking (I already knew some basic cooking by that time) and sewing a shirt together (I've never done sewing since then, perhaps other than sewing a couple buttons onto some pants, which I probably could have figured out anyway).
No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates, or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
powerful.
I didn't care for Q either. If this collective was so highly evolved and self policing, Q would've neith existed or would've never been allowed to leave the collective. Forming the collective was a means of non-interference through isolation.
Q (as in the most frequent member of the Q Contunum seen on the show) did have his moments. :)
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more powerful.
I didn't think of mthat, but yes that makes sense.
Home ec and family living were different. Shop class filled up early so I had to take home ec in the 8th grade. The bulk of our time was learning how to cook and use the various kitchen appliances otherwise we were learning how to sew and mend clothing. there was some acedemic stuff such as nutrition thrown in, but family living was much more practical for for a high school senior that was not going the college route. I took the college bound block of classes, but heard from friends the teacher covered writing resumes and filling out applications. Sounds like simple stuff, but can be intimidating to someone who has never done it before.
Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-
Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely low scale.
The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
& I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
paved with good intentions.
Andeddu wrote to Ogg <=-
I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating."
I can see the validity of both sides of the argument.
There's so
much barbarity and cruelty in the world that I would be tempted
to remove man's free will, if only to end the suffering.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering... with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.
That says it will be done, not how it can be done.
Through an idological consensus, the less reputable ideas many
individuals harbour could be eliminated.
Diversity in ideas invariably ends in conflict. The idea of "the individual" would have to end, and replaced with ideas of "the collective".
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?
It's rare, I admit.
There have been GOOD Roman Emperors, which is
why their civilisation lasted so long. The problem with
dictatorships is that it takes only one bad egg to burn the
entire society to the ground.
On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing
but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even
within the same ideological structures.
On 08-18-20 12:06, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Another common them in Trek was overcoming god-like enemies. In some
cases the god manifested itself in the form of a machine, and was
defeated with logic, or it was a being of advanced abilities which
could be confused and defeated by playing with it's emotions. Third category required logic and emotion to spring the trap.
Regardless, the crew comes out winning because they rose to meet the challenge or the enemy under estimated what humanity is capable of.
On 08-18-20 16:17, Underminer wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/UNDRMINE
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
powerful.
There have been arguments made that Trelane was a Q. Maybe even the Q
we know. ---
On 08-18-20 14:26, The Lizard Master wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I love when I beat Q in TNG pinball game. He usally wins though.
Haha in DSP and software defined radio, I and Q have to work together. ;) (wonder if anyone else will get that one ;) ).
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 08:58 pm
Where has this EVER worked? And where are you going to find a benevolent dicatator, that won't be unseated, undermined, removed, killed by the less benevolent?
It's rare, I admit. There have been GOOD Roman Emperors, which is why their civilisation lasted so long. The problem with dictatorships is
that it takes only one bad egg to burn the entire society to the
ground.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:02 pm
I think Musk is disconnected with reality to some degree, as is most of Silicon Valley. These people are the last people I would go to, to get advice on where humanity should go. Why would you think someone who lives in a bubble, would understand how the world works? These are business people, and they have geared their knowledge towards their trade.
What will replace our ideals? I'm not sure, but we can see that populism is a growing force, people are rejecting some ideals. The EU is falling apart, the TPP is dead, people are wanting less and less this future of global hegemony. We saw Brexit, and we will see soon, I think a move away from "diversity" as an ideal. We are halfway there, as this idea now smells of a bad religion and is a source of conflict. We will begin to realise that
And why is populism, nationalism and anti-globalism so fiercely opposed
by the media? Do you view Trump as someone railing against the global hegemony?
I can't see anything but conflict in our immediate future. Politics (in the US in particular) has never been so toxic.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm
The reason that I think these implants are dumb ideas, is because the person making the idea lacks self-awareness and understanding of the human conditions.
Our problems aren't information, knowledge, they are behavioural, and people promote things for self serving interests, INCLUDING ideas such as implants and dictatorships of the benevolent. Everyone who imagines a utopia, imagines one as per THEIR model. So it is automatically oppressive, because it is person X who is imposing THEIR vision on us all. I for example, want to live in a world where different peoples still exist, where nations DO favour their own over others and resist homogenisation. I'm for the powerfull bucking social and moral trends (as long as they don't complete power), for struggle, conflict, antagonism. Maybe, just maybe some people with 'deplorable' views are actually holding views that make our world better, but we are too prejudiced to see it. The existence of that antagonism is good, as long as there is balance.
Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. Our world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manage themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.
Sam Harris posits that suffering is the only thing we can say is objectively bad. A world with LESS suffering is objectively better than
a world with MORE suffering. Although basic, I think he's right.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm
No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely different, as does our processing. We don't work in binary, or definite, strict logic. O brain uses a vastly different model, so any comparison which goes into more depth than "electrical signals" is useless. Computers don't understand context, aren't conscious, and cannot think. They don't fall for visual or auditory illusions.
I think when we map how the brain works, we will see that it works using an alien computation model to what our machines do.
We are machines. Organic electro chemical machines that are way more complex than any concepts we currently use to crunch numbers. Some functions of our bodies have analogs in non-organic mechanics and electronics, howver they are smaller components of more complex
systems. Memory systems alone blows scientists minds because they are aware of generic nodes, however the data is stored and multiplexed in
ways that currently don't make sense.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:14 pm
Development of a human being needs discipline, limits and self-awareness. O world would be a better place when people learn to control themselves, manag themselves, overcome themselves. A soft life doesn't do that.
The first step in moving forward is discovering what holds you back. Tradition and heritage may be better suited for history books, since everyone's identity is how they personally translate what was said and done in the past. If we adhered to all tradition and the old ways,
we'd still be hunter gatherers relying on caves.
I agree self responsibility and discipline are important tools for improving people's status in lives. Only so much can be blamed on
others and some obstacles are only hard to overcome because of lack of self confidence or self esteem.
Underminer wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Underminer on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:05 pm
No, we are not essentially computers. You won't find in our brand and gates, or gates, flip-flops, microcode. Our memory works completely
You're worrying about levels of sophistication and architecture. My
point is that we do operate on a pretty binary level. You even expect
it from other people in your interactions in being able to predict reactions. If you get a different response you chalk that up to the environmental circumstances or differing past experience. The
underlying point is the same: it's a series of chemical and electrical interactions. We can expect that with a given set of inputs, we'll get
a given set of outputs every time. The fact we can't predict exactly
which inputs map to which outputs is just a matter of complexity.
That's why there's thought even as far as that the experience consciousness may be more of an emergent phenomenom. ---
Underminer
Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-
On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing
but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even
within the same ideological structures.
Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism,
ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the
remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.
You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!
Well, thankfully, you have neither the authority, nor the ability
to do such a thing. Oh, and not enough ammo, either.
Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have
ither.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 06:43 pm
"Social engineered society"? That means controlling who we have sex with No thanks. I enjoy screwing whoever I want, whenever I want. I perfer not having my sex managed thank you very much. Engineered genes? Like dog breeding right?
Well you wanted a solution to racism, poverty, etc... have you got better id
In this world you can have sex with a single partner on Tuesday and Orgy-Por (group sex) every second Thursday. Not so bad now is it?
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Ogg to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 08:40 pm
I am not sure whether you are saying that you agree with CS Lewis or not, but he also said, "free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly b worth creating."
I can see the validity of both sides of the argument. There's so much barbar and cruelty in the world that I would be tempted to remove man's free will, only to end the suffering.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Mon Aug 17 2020 09:34 pm
Yes... in a resourced based and social engineered society, poverty, racism a all the other ills of the world can be eliminated. No other civilisation in history of man has achieved peace and ended suffering with technology the is the prospect of making this happen.
That says it will be done, not how it can be done.
Through an idological consensus, the less reputable ideas many individuals harbour could be eliminated.
Diversity in ideas invariably ends in conflict. The idea of "the individual" would have to end, and replaced with ideas of "the collective".
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to HusTler on Tue Aug 18 2020 12:02 am
Yep, some engineer wants to breed us all into being mindless, passive she and beleives they are so much better than the rest of use they will prote us by breeding out "disagreeable" features rather than engineer a society where the benefits of society reinforce taking responsibility for ourselv
I'm amazed no one has brought up the scifi film Gattaca yet.
Gattaca is one of my favourite films, an absolute classic.
Perhaps there's a way to engineer empathy into people. I think there's a distinct lack of it in this day and age. An empathetic person is a good person... we can agree that we don't need any more evil people.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Vk3jed to Moondog on Tue Aug 18 2020 09:03 pm
Q was a re-hash of Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, except more
powerful.
There have been arguments made that Trelane was a Q. Maybe even the Q we kno
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to MRO on Mon Aug 17 2020 11:25 pm
Home ec and family living were different. Shop class filled up early so had to take home ec in the 8th grade. The bulk of our time was learning how to cook and use the various kitchen appliances otherwise we were learning how to sew and mend clothing. there was some acedemic stuff su as nutrition thrown in, but family living was much more practical for f a high school senior that was not going the college route. I took the college bound block of classes, but heard from friends the teacher cove writing resumes and filling out applications. Sounds like simple stuff, but can be intimidating to someone who has never done it before.
i guess this just shows how fucked up our educational systems were.
in my highschool there werent any 'college route' courses.
I think Trump partly is against the establishmnent, not because he's not part of it, but because of conflict of interest. He does seem to have a different worldview. As for the media, the media are part of an established ruling "elite" (and I use the term "elite" loosely). It was during the 2016 when the mask came off, that even they admitted that there IS an establishment. And there is, you get into power by meeting a particular image, a particular way of thinking, a particular mode of though and a particular ethical stance. You can see this in many parts of society. "Professional" is another euphemism. And that particular class of people are failing to deliver.
Conflict is always in our future. "Only the dead are safe; Only the dead have seen the end of war", said George Santayana.
We are at this stage PRECISELY because the people who want to keep their power (ie, the establishment), utterly failed. The solution is most definately not to keep the status quo, that will only make things work. The riots and division in Europe and problems with migration are due to this idiotic idea of "open borders". Diversity is THE reason we have more and more laws against speech, why there is so much division between us.
Identity politics and "socialism" is the reason for so much division.
It will take some turmoil to set things right, but its too late for any other alternative.
Perhaps, though I worry that a world with no suffering won't last. I'm not saying that people should be made to suffer, but adversity, hardship, struggle does make people better. Wealth and prosperity seems to ruin people. People have banded together in times of trouble, and shared struggle does seem to be able to bring out good in people.
Should we make a live worth living? Absolutely, but we shouldn't think that it can be done just be removing negative stimuli. We need meaning, purpose, to be able to interact and know the REAL work. We want lives with meaning, purpose, severity and gravitas. A live eating and sitting comfortably with all the entertainment you want is not fulfilling. We want, and need, to exercise the full range of human ability, to be a power and a part of something, where our lifes energy shapes something lasting and important.
I would much rather a world where I can work with meaning, where I can live honest and true to myself, and be able to express myself freely and debate. Even if that involves competition, struggling and coming against others, there is a purpose. A world which is controlled for comfort cannot allow that. No longer will humans be able to shape the world, impress themselves on it and affect it, shape it, debate and express themselves. They will have to fit a mould, be moulded, and never brush up and push against the narrow path. Despite the physical comfort, the lack of "racism", this I think would make people depressed, a life, while comfortable, has no point at all. Lifes energy going nowhere.
Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-
Then your attempt at Historical Materialism is dead on arrival, because nothing like idealised communism has been shown to work beyond extremely scale.
The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
& I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
paved with good intentions.
You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!
Oh yeah? Who decides who gets to decide what ideas are "less
reputable"?
Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexi and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.
Tradition does need to be question, but not discarded. Tradition and herita has two functions we don't appreciate. Firstly, tradition within it, has centuries and generations worth of knowledge, gained by trial and error, oft painfully. WE may not be able to explain why certain traditions or cultural mores are the way they are, but they nevertheless behind them, may contain m hard learned wisdon. Heritage also gives us grounding, and anchors us to a particular part of the patchwork of humanity, the part where we may best fit
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-
On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even within the same ideological structures.
Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
sort of interface or power source. A Q would not require such a device. the Q Continuum is outside our time and space. Why would 2 Q raise a petulant child outside the continuum? why would such a child's behavior be
On 08-19-20 03:52, Underminer wrote to Vk3jed <=-
@VIA: VERT/UNDRMINE
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Vk3jed to The Lizard Master on Wed Aug 19 2020 01:38 pm
Haha in DSP and software defined radio, I and Q have to work together. ;) (wonder if anyone else will get that one ;) ).
Pretty sure there's a few Hams about ;)
On 08-19-20 22:33, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
the value of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
On 08-19-20 15:29, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I believe that a huge number of our finest mathematicians and
physicists are themselves on the autism spectrum. I watched quite an
interesting documentary a while ago about a group of British students competing in the Maths Olympiad. Around half appeared to be autistic.
They struggled to express themselves and converse with other less
talented "normal" students, however possessed incredible problem
solving ability. So yeah, I agree... neurological diversity is
important as it only takes one genius (who is able to think outside of
the box) to push forward human understanding by 50 or so years.
On 08-19-20 11:01, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Those would also be the people we'd genetically screen out, abort, euthanize, or genetically "fix" so they won't contaminate a "pure" society.
I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but
they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because
I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:09 pm
I think Trump partly is against the establishmnent, not because he's not part of it, but because of conflict of interest. He does seem to have a different worldview. As for the media, the media are part of an established ruling "elite" (and I use the term "elite" loosely). It was during the 2016 when the mask came off, that even they admitted that there IS an establishment. And there is, you get into power by meeting a particular image, a particular way of thinking, a particular mode of though and a particular ethical stance. You can see this in many parts of society. "Professional" is another euphemism. And that particular class of people are failing to deliver.
Conflict is always in our future. "Only the dead are safe; Only the dead have seen the end of war", said George Santayana.
We are at this stage PRECISELY because the people who want to keep their power (ie, the establishment), utterly failed. The solution is most definately not to keep the status quo, that will only make things work. The riots and division in Europe and problems with migration are due to this idiotic idea of "open borders". Diversity is THE reason we have more and more laws against speech, why there is so much division between us.
Identity politics and "socialism" is the reason for so much division.
It will take some turmoil to set things right, but its too late for any other alternative.
Have you read Douglas Murray's book The Strange Death of Europe? Much
of what you're talking about is discussed in this book. The stagnation
of Western society coupled with a general disinterest in national
pride, old fashioned values, etc...
When half of the population appear to support open borders, socialism
and censorship, and the other half support capitalism, property
ownership, second amendment rights and free-speech... things are going
to have to come to a head.
I fear that the chaos we've seen in 2020 is set to continue throughout
the decade, as no compromise appears to be in sight.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:16 pm
Perhaps, though I worry that a world with no suffering won't last. I'm not saying that people should be made to suffer, but adversity, hardship, struggle does make people better. Wealth and prosperity seems to ruin people. People have banded together in times of trouble, and shared struggle does seem to be able to bring out good in people.
Should we make a live worth living? Absolutely, but we shouldn't think that it can be done just be removing negative stimuli. We need meaning, purpose, to be able to interact and know the REAL work. We want lives with meaning, purpose, severity and gravitas. A live eating and sitting comfortably with all the entertainment you want is not fulfilling. We want, and need, to exercise the full range of human ability, to be a power and a part of something, where our lifes energy shapes something lasting and important.
I would much rather a world where I can work with meaning, where I can live honest and true to myself, and be able to express myself freely and debate. Even if that involves competition, struggling and coming against others, there is a purpose. A world which is controlled for comfort cannot allow that. No longer will humans be able to shape the world, impress themselves on it and affect it, shape it, debate and express themselves. They will have to fit a mould, be moulded, and never brush up and push against the narrow path. Despite the physical comfort, the lack of "racism", this I think would make people depressed, a life, while comfortable, has no point at all. Lifes energy going nowhere.
I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental
adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create
character, which in turn can create a better person. There are,
however, a huge number of truly awful people who think nothing of
causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem with our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous acts.
Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering.
In order to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of
causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something
like gene manipulation could work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would
be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopian society as I can imagine.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:23 pm
Tradition does need to be question, but not discarded. Tradition and herita has two functions we don't appreciate. Firstly, tradition within it, has centuries and generations worth of knowledge, gained by trial and error, oft painfully. WE may not be able to explain why certain traditions or cultural mores are the way they are, but they nevertheless behind them, may contain m hard learned wisdon. Heritage also gives us grounding, and anchors us to a particular part of the patchwork of humanity, the part where we may best fit
While it's important to learn from the past, we don't live in the past.
We learn so we don't repeat the same mistakes. As a society grows, tradition must be challenged as it is "the way we've always done it."
This is tribal thinking. It's like the son of the chief asking why
they go on a traditional
hunt, when it is easier to grow crops and domesticate penned in
animals? The son's ideas are new and untried, regardless if they make
any sense. That's not the way they have done things for as long as the chief remembers.
Heritage does not define who you are. It defines the people before
you. It could be argued that everything you are came from them, but
that is not true, especially if you have relocated to a different town
or even a country. I may have Irish and a good deal of Eastern and Central European blood in my family's past, but I am none of them.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because they believe diversity outweighs experience and knowledge, or
they are afraid to be ridiculed and judged if they didn't choose diversity. On one project I worked on a department supervisor told me they were sent an edict from HR that theu must always hire the most diverse candidate, period. However, if they were asked, they were told
to deny it.
I worked on one project where I'm guessing one of my co-workers was
hired due to diversity. He was a smart guy originally from Honduras, however he had a weight restriction of 10lbs due to a car accident. We were rolling out desktop systems and would have to pick up as much as 50lbs. He would've been better suited working in the call center than assigned to working on a deployemnt team. We had a similar project involving some interns from a local tech school, however they were best used when kept in the staging area performing desktop imaging and outprocessing the old equipment.
Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Vk3jed on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:33 pm
Vk3jed wrote to Andeddu <=-
On 08-18-20 19:33, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've never heard of neurodiversity. I am not saying it's not a thing but I have never come across any studies indicating that people of differnent races think differently. I understand cultural difference, however I think you're suggesting the races think differently even within the same ideological structures.
Nothing to do with racial differences, these are human differences that are spread throughout different populations. It refers to autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and a number of other neurological differences. These people often have out of the box ways of solving problems, that 90% or more of the population would never have thought, and most of the remaining 10% probably wouldn't have ither.
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
It is all marketing.
Like when they want to hear your ideas and to point out ways of
improving. It is false. They don't. Why? Because if you point something that needs fixing, you are pointing a defect that somebody will have to fix. That is bad news. What they want to hear is "Everything is nice
and working full capacity!"
Which is incidentally the reason why really good workers end up eating
so much dubg from management. They are the ones trying to kake things
run, which means locating and reporting problems, which means telling managers things they don't want to hear, which is impopular. The
workers who don't give a damn, those earn the sympathies of managers because they never pop up with bad news.
I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create character, which in turn ca create a better person. There are, however, a huge number of truly awful peo who think nothing of causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem w our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous ac
Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.
On 08-19-20 11:01, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Those would also be the people we'd genetically screen out, abort, euthanize, or genetically "fix" so they won't contaminate a "pure" society.
Ironically, many of those people would be the ones to make the technology possible in the first place!
China is a manufacturing/technological superpower. Once international trade dies off, Chinese firms will have to pay their worker's a fair wage so that they can purchase the goods they produce. They'll be landed with the same economical enviroment the USA had back in the 1950s-1980s when they too were a
manufacturing superpower.
I am not an advocate of Communism though.
The idea would be to create a world similar to that in BNW, a
scientific/communistic dictatorship. It is, however, just a book
& I am well aware all Communist regimes begin with good
intentions prior to ending in bloodshed. The road to hell is
paved with good intentions.
You have an extraordinary talent in saying completely opposing
things, all in one paragraph, and thinking that it makes sense to
anyone other than yourself. Extraordinary!
HusTler wrote to Moondog <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 11:36 am
On a side note, I find it very amusing that companies always talk of
the val of diversity, because of different views, etc,blah, blah, but
they simultanesouly want people who fit the company "culture".
Companies also hire lesser skilled recruits because of their diversity rather than experience and knowledge. I'm not sure if this is done because
These people are hired because they work for less money. That is it
and that is all. Diversity is just an after fart. Errr I mean after thought.
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to Dennisk on Wed Aug 19 2020 05:16 pm
I believe we are a long way off a world with no physical/mental adversity. I understand that going though hardship can create character, which in turn ca create a better person. There are, however, a huge number of truly awful peo who think nothing of causing harm to others. I know this is also a problem w our judicial system, as it doesn't appear to deter deplorable and heinous ac
Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.
I'd hate to see the human race being bred into being a bunch of sheep.
We are not farm animals to be genetically altered to go to slaughter.
We are intelligent, self aware beings who are capable of more than
acting on instincts and primal urges. It will take awhile for everyone
to come onboard, however I believe a philosphy based on people treating others the wish they be treated can be adopted.
this is finding the common thread behind all nations and creeds and establish common ground. Henry Rollins, a musician also know n for
spoken word performances spoke of an idea he had about dropping all the even numbered Ramones albums on one side of the Israeli border and all
the odd number albums in Palestinian controlled territory. The day
will come where the troops will be massing and getting ready to fight, then someone on the opposite side will hear some music that sounds familiar, but the song is unknown. Eventually the gates ope n and
peace treaties will be authored as a means to exchange the albums the other side has not heard.
This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish
peace and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
Sam Harris talks of a world where there is no human caused suffering. In ord to make such a world possible, one would be incapable of causing unnecessary harm to another person/creatre. Perhaps something like gene manipulation cou work in the future... from what I know, empathy (although still does not prevent a person from killing another person) can mitigate the desire in a person to cause harm/suffering to another. A high empathy population would proper, I believe, and would be as close to a humane (and free-willed) utopi society as I can imagine.
I'd hate to see the human race being bred into being a bunch of
sheep.
And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 to sa ve resources.
Earlier this year I heard the quote: "Ships are safe when anchored
in protected harbors. But that's what ships are for." By the same theme I view humans as builders and problem solvers. There is an innate curiosity where humans will take risks to seek answers. In order gorw and move on as a civilization, there needs to be some form of suffering or discomfort: a reason
to discover and implement changes. Places where this is absent are where people toil in poverty and discomfort. As problem solvers, we need to find wa ys to improve conditions in these areas to encourage growth rather than pump
in money and resources to pacify these people.
However it's that diversity that promotes change and growth. When working in IT in the nuclear power industry, I heard of a concept called "groupthink." It's actually a bad thing, because everyone thinks alike, and will blindly accept an "experts" opinion as gospel without considering an alternative outcome. A good example of this in the scene in Apollo 13 where some figures the only way to get the astronauts home is if they can keep their power consumption below a seemingly impossible threshold. the chief engineer says that's impossible, and his folks accept it. It takes someone outside his authority to apply a questioning attitude to prove they were wrong.
Back in the 90's I took a quality workgroup training course that implemented bringing in an outside person into a discussion to question the group why they can't see the forest from within the trees. In the forum, all were considered equals in opinion. Of course, the outside guy was always a manger of higher rank, and acted as an authoritarian rather than a moderator. Groupthink killed quality improvement.
What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought to it's knees and will be begging for help. Whatever "chaos" you're referring to I can assure you is only temporary. ... Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.
HusTler
I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I had ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with great clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline, don't let the iPhone's fool you.
People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.
Yes, there are a lot of harmful people, who want to control us, dominate us, screw us over. That is why I object to social engineering, to having someone with authority dicate what we can do, how we should think, engineer us, because far, far, far more likely than not, the person who will get to decide how we should go "forward" will be one of these self-serving assholes. And they may not come accross that way. They may come accross as professional, smiley, seemingly rational and selfless.
You are talking of engineering people. I'm saying that if we think we should be engineered, the worst of society will do the engineering. The people who want to do "good" are often the worst. Some of the nastiest people I've met, are people who claim to fight for minorities and the underclass, etc. Anti-racism is hateful. Inclusion is just discimination by another name.
This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish peace and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.
On 08-20-20 09:27, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Very true. The abnormally gifted people will be the ones who can recognize and categorize the genes that stand out.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:28 am
And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 sa ve resources.
Lol, I haven't seen Logan's Run but I have heard about a number of hypotheti social contracts whereby citizens must sacrifice themselves for the good of state once they reach the ripe old age of around 60ish. Becoming elderly is viewed as something that upends the natural order... how many old wild anima have you seen?
that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
What "Chaos" are you referring to? Portland? Seattle? These are cities with extremely weak governments. Both cities will eventually be brought
We'll see how things pan out... NYC seems to be quite worrying too. If the N lose a billion dollars of their budget, crime will rise back to the levels w saw in the 1980s. These sort of kneejerk decisions are going to have long-te political and economic repercussions. It'll be interesting if these cities e up begging for Federal assistance... however some politicians would rather c off their nose to spite their face.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
That's the problem with social engineering. As an
administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially
engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
I agree that groupthink is bad and that there has to be an open
discourse where ideas can be assessed.
The problem with too many ideas is that they can move a civilisaiton/society down the path of destruction.
If a successful society accepts that it's
imperfect, and implements 10,50,100 or 1000 new acts of
legislation or regulation, each act being sensible and
progressive, you may end up with a worse society than you started
with.
A socially engineered society is one which will do anything to
preserve the rules presently in place, because too many changes
could topple the regime or completely alter the course of the civilisation.
close to peace. The world is more fractured today than ever before... relati are going backwards, not forwards!
I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President) for his short comings. The whole thing is a travesty.
Elder animals are somehow common in social species. For example, chimps. Primates have an evolutionary pass for old members because old individuals are useful - they can take care of the youngsters while everybody else is busy.
Guess what, that is what I see a lot of in Spain. Gandpas taking care of the babies when mom and dad are working to put food on the table.
Preferable to who? You? I would hate living in a world like that and would likely off myself. But hey..that's just me.
I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President) for his short comings. The whole thing is a travesty. He protects non-citizens but doesn't have the money to feed them, house them, provide healthcare for them. So he takes a billion dollars away from the cops. He thinks he can get what he wants out of NYC police because he's a tough guy. Well, guess what? The NYC police has endorsed Donald Trump. So yea..let's see how things pan out.
HusTler
That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
No, it wouldn't. Wrong, again.
And yet you promote a society where there can *BE* no open
discourse, because everyone is a drone/sheep that has been
assimilated into the Borg "for the benefit of all".
Does that make any sense, even to you?
I suppose that is possible, but not likely. Did you ever stop to
wonder how a "successful society" (your words) got to be that way
in the first place? Maybe they know what they're doing?
Yeah, let's not have "too many changes" in society. It would be
so much better to just STAGNATE and have everyone be the same.
Right? Do you even SEE the idiocy of your statements?
The world is more peaceful this century than it ever was.
The Middle Ages consistend in warlords who swore fealty among each other and waged war against other warlords all day long.
In antique times they had rampant slavery, they killed you for holding the wrong opinion, and big empires took lands, killed all the men and enslaved the women and children.
We are much better today than we used to be.
IF you breed people into sheep, they will be MORE likely to commit mass violence. Nazi Germany wasn't exactly populated by people who were free to express their own moral and political ideas, and challenge the mandated morality.
The idea about dropping Ramone's albums sounds cute, but is ridiculous. I think a good start towards a better society is not thinking that celebrities with opinions are a good source of guidance. A society is pretty broken whe it thinks that Madonna's opinion of French politics for example, somehow carries any weight.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:28 am
And just like in Logan's Run, they kill you when you reach the age of 30 sa ve resources.
Lol, I haven't seen Logan's Run but I have heard about a number of hypotheti social contracts whereby citizens must sacrifice themselves for the good of state once they reach the ripe old age of around 60ish. Becoming elderly is viewed as something that upends the natural order... how many old wild anima have you seen?
That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, yo objective would be to retain the status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 10:12 am
However it's that diversity that promotes change and growth. When workin in IT in the nuclear power industry, I heard of a concept called "groupthink." It's actually a bad thing, because everyone thinks alike, will blindly accept an "experts" opinion as gospel without considering an alternative outcome. A good example of this in the scene in Apollo 13 wh some figures the only way to get the astronauts home is if they can keep their power consumption below a seemingly impossible threshold. the chie engineer says that's impossible, and his folks accept it. It takes someo outside his authority to apply a questioning attitude to prove they were wrong.
Back in the 90's I took a quality workgroup training course that implemen bringing in an outside person into a discussion to question the group why they can't see the forest from within the trees. In the forum, all were considered equals in opinion. Of course, the outside guy was always a manger of higher rank, and acted as an authoritarian rather than a moderator. Groupthink killed quality improvement.
I agree that groupthink is bad and that there has to be an open discourse wh ideas can be assessed. The problem with too many ideas is that they can move civilisaiton/society down the path of destruction. If a successful society accepts that it's imperfect, and implements 10,50,100 or 1000 new acts of legislation or regulation, each act being sensible and progressive, you may up with a worse society than you started with.
A socially engineered society is one which will do anything to preserve the rules presently in place, because too many changes could topple the regime o completely alter the course of the civilisation.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 09:17 am
This is a bit ridiculous, however there has to be a way to establish peac and common ground without breeding people into being sheep.
As much as I was nodding to myself while reading your post, I think you're being a little naive. Humans will never stop killing each other. Even if it' over the tiniest difference, we will never EVER stop harming each other in s and twisted ways. We have never come close to achieving a utopia, never come close to peace. The world is more fractured today than ever before... relati are going backwards, not forwards!
I don't have much faith that we'll ever settle our differences. I mean, wher would you even begin?
On 08-20-20 09:27, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Very true. The abnormally gifted people will be the ones who can recognize and categorize the genes that stand out.
Exactly, and what's been happening in Silicon Valley in recent years is more evidence that suggests neurodvergent people are a significant contributing factor to today's technology. Basically, it is a known fact that there is a unusually high prevalence of autism in Silicon Valley, and that is put down there being a concentration of autistic traits among the engineers and other tech people who live and work there. And as most people meet their partners through local and work connections, those people are having kids together, concentrating those traits.
Some food for thought...
https://www.womenofsiliconvalley.com/blog/neurodiversity-in-silicon-valley
And here's a different perspective. I met Steve Silberman at an autism conference in Melbourne in 2016, and have a signed copy of his book (mention in the second article below). One chapter of the book talks about activitie and interests like ham radio and pop culture, as well as te Internet, where autistic people congregated. And I have no doubt BBSs are in that category too! :)
https://tinyurl.com/y7798kza
... Some people grow under responsibility. Others merely swell up.
On 08-21-20 13:03, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've seen many times in discussion forums where some posters lack any
form of social etiquette, or drone on after the subject had been
changed. Borderline Asperger's Syndrome.
On 08-21-20 04:00, Arelor wrote to Andeddu <=-
Elder animals are somehow common in social species. For example,
chimps. Primates have an evolutionary pass for old members because old individuals are useful - they can take care of the youngsters while everybody else is busy.
Guess what, that is what I see a lot of in Spain. Gandpas taking care
of the babies when mom and dad are working to put food on the table.
On 08-21-20 07:15, HusTler wrote to Andeddu <=-
@VIA: VERT/HAVENS
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 02:42 am
that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort o chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out a major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
Preferable to who? You? I would hate living in a world like that and would likely off myself. But hey..that's just me.
On 08-21-20 12:54, Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people
fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence?
Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can
consider making changes.
I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is
not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that
would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer.
I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot
stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Wed Aug 19 2020 09:56 am
Earlier this year I heard the quote: "Ships are safe when anchored
in protected harbors. But that's what ships are for." By the same theme I view humans as builders and problem solvers. There is an innate curiosity where humans will take risks to seek answers. In order gorw and move on as a civilization, there needs to be some form of suffering or discomfort: a reason
to discover and implement changes. Places where this is absent are where people toil in poverty and discomfort. As problem solvers, we need to find wa ys to improve conditions in these areas to encourage growth rather than pump
in money and resources to pacify these people.
That's the problem with social engineering. As an
administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the status
quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion of
conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered
is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of chaotic world we
live in today. There are positives and negatives in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll wipe ourselves out in a
major nuclear conflict. A stable society that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:03 pm
I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I had ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with great clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline, don't let the iPhone's fool you.
People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.
Yes, I agree that through our very poor educational system, people are going to forget, discard or even repudiate the high culture we once had (The Renaissance, The Age of Enlightenment, etc)... and in doing so,
our civilisation will end not with a bang, but with a wimper.
I mean just compare Rembrant's masterpieces to present day art, for example!
Andeddu wrote to Arelor <=-
The world is more peaceful this century than it ever was.
The Middle Ages consistend in warlords who swore fealty among each other and waged war against other warlords all day long.
In antique times they had rampant slavery, they killed you for holding the wrong opinion, and big empires took lands, killed all the men and enslaved the women and children.
We are much better today than we used to be.
The 20th century is the most murderous in world history. Two
world wars, a huge number of violent revolutions and ethnic
cleansing resulted in around 190 million deaths. The middle ages
were rather tame in comparison.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
That's the problem with social engineering. As an administrator/dictator, your objective would be to retain the
status quo by any means. This stifles innovation by the promotion
of conformity via strict regulations. A world that's socially engineered is one which is ordered, as opposed to the sort of
chaotic world we live in today. There are positives and negatives
in both systems. In a chaotic world, there's a good chance we'll
wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict. A stable society
that takes no risks, in this example, would be preferable.
No, it wouldn't. Wrong, again.
Okay... have fun scavenging in a barren nuclear wasteland!
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the
original story.
Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with
multiple partners is a common activity.
Children are genetically
designed from harvested DNA and grown in artficial wombs, and the
children are raised by the system without parents. In one part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. It
looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the
residents there live off the grid.
I'm a New Yorker. The Mayor Blazio is Delusional and talks tough until
the city needs money from the feds. Then he blames the feds (President)
I did see that the US policing federation formally endorsed Trump, which is quite a statement as they usually remain impartial. New York is such a
And a lot of traditional societies have their elders participate more in cli rearing and other aspects of running the village. Many respect their elders too, unlike many Western societies, who lock them up in "norsing homes". :/
On 08-21-20 13:03, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I've seen many times in discussion forums where some posters lack any form of social etiquette, or drone on after the subject had been changed. Borderline Asperger's Syndrome.
This medium is likely to attract people on the spectrum, because of the high level of technical expertise required, especially for those of us who did it back in the 80s and 90s. :)
... Warranty: If it breaks, both halves are yours.
I'm with you, that sounds like Hell, or worse - mind numbingly boring and stale. The very things I have an intolerance for. Either I'd find a way to disruot the system, or top myself. :D I am at my most devious when unwarran conformity is placed upon me.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:03 pm
I did buy and read Strange Death of Europe. A lot of it were things I ha ruminated on, or guessed to some degree, but Douglas Murray wrote with gr clarity. I'm pretty convinced we are in a general civilisational decline don't let the iPhone's fool you.
People have become so cocooned, coddled, they have lost connection with reality, and are functioning in a make-believe world.
Yes, I agree that through our very poor educational system, people are going to forget, discard or even repudiate the high culture we once had (The Renaissance, The Age of Enlightenment, etc)... and in doing so, our civilisation will end not with a bang, but with a wimper.
I mean just compare Rembrant's masterpieces to present day art, for example!
I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.
... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
Okay... have fun scavenging in a barren nuclear wasteland!
Honestly, I would rather do that than be a mindless sheep
controlled by some dictator/Borg. Seriously.
But it's not likely to happen, because your statement above is
flawed/wrong anyway. I don't agree that there's a "good chance"
we'll wipe ourselves out in a major nuclear conflict.
A society that takes no risks doesn't last very long.
On 08-22-20 14:43, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Most people don't lock their elders in nursing homes because they want
to. Many elders become non-functional and their families just can't
take proper care of them.
On 08-22-20 12:06, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I was able to click on a link on Benj's website, and open a telnet
window. I wouldn't consider that expertise. I get what you're saying, though. It's a bit off the beaten path, and I think that also attracts
a different crowd, whether they are retro computing or appreciate the perks and quirks of the interface.
On 08-22-20 12:15, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
It sounds like you would be the perfect candidate for space exploration
or oce an exploration. Mankind is not made for staying in a cradle all it's life. Remote colonies with the most adversity will require leaders and mavericks that can think on the go, since doing nothing can deliver the same results as doing the wrong thing.
Jenny Agutter.
And that is because our society has divided us. What if we were a village t looked after our elders collectively, as well as the kids?
In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the original story. Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with multiple partners is a common activity. Children are genetically designed from harvested DNA and grown in artficial wombs, and the children are raised by the system without parents. In one
part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. It looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the residents there live off the grid.
A society that is too slow to react to change can also be a detriment.
Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence? Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can consider making changes.
I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer. I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.
Anddedu, you are such a confused individual. I don't know how your brain holds itself together.
All totalitarian regimes enforce a status quo, and want a stable society that takes no risks (to upset the status quo).
You are LITERALLY advocating totalitarian dictatorship, and then, at the same time, wanting to avoid conflict.
So you want dicatorships, but will pathologise any individuals or nations, that won't succumb, and blame THEM for violence, if they resist enslavement!!
My God man!!!!
I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.
The 20th century is the most murderous in world history. Two
world wars, a huge number of violent revolutions and ethnic
cleansing resulted in around 190 million deaths. The middle ages
were rather tame in comparison.
Guess what! You're a little behind. It's now the 21st Century.
Also you should brush up on your history a little. Ever heard of
the Inquisition/Crusades? How about the Black Death? Perhaps
other major diseases and famine? Maybe an average lifespan of
35-ish years old? Does the name Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian
conquests mean anything?
It makes the statement "we need law enforcement". The fact of the matter is blacks disrespect police and resist arrest. I don't want New York City to turn into another Portland or Seattle. These people must be stopped and law enforcement is the only way to do that.
On 08-23-20 08:50, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Letting the tribe look after the kids collectively sounds like such an ugly idea.
I know who my neighbors are and I would not trust a candy bar to them.
Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Thu Aug 20 2020 10:07 pm
Yes, there are a lot of harmful people, who want to control us, dominate us, screw us over. That is why I object to social engineering, to having someone with authority dicate what we can do, how we should think, engineer us, because far, far, far more likely than not, the person who will get to decide how we should go "forward" will be one of these self-serving assholes. And they may not come accross that way. They may come accross as professional, smiley, seemingly rational and selfless.
You are talking of engineering people. I'm saying that if we think we should be engineered, the worst of society will do the engineering. The people who want to do "good" are often the worst. Some of the nastiest people I've met, are people who claim to fight for minorities and the underclass, etc. Anti-racism is hateful. Inclusion is just discimination by another name.
I believe that we can engineer a better breed of human. I am not particularly interested in intelligence or anything in relation to
race. I would just like to believe that we could consistently produce
kind and caring human beings... altruists who do good for the sake of
it, asking for nothing else in return.
These people are rare, as most people are equally bad as they are good. This is hypothetical, of course, as the person or people likely to
promote such an agenda would have to be benevolent & kind themselves... traits that are generally absent in those who wield true power.
Moondog wrote to Dennisk <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Dennisk to Moondog on Fri Aug 21 2020 08:50 am
IF you breed people into sheep, they will be MORE likely to commit mass violence. Nazi Germany wasn't exactly populated by people who were free to express their own moral and political ideas, and challenge the mandated morality.
The idea about dropping Ramone's albums sounds cute, but is ridiculous. I think a good start towards a better society is not thinking that celebrities with opinions are a good source of guidance. A society is pretty broken whe it thinks that Madonna's opinion of French politics for example, somehow carries any weight.
Rollins is an entertainer, although he attempts political commentary.
I listen to his spoken word for entertainment only. I found the idea entertaining something simple as finding a comnon ground of music appreciation could help find greater common ground. In truth, most enemies are so clouded by hate, they would find a way to spin that
common ground into more hate.
Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Boraxman to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 01:43 pm
Anddedu, you are such a confused individual. I don't know how your brain holds itself together.
All totalitarian regimes enforce a status quo, and want a stable society that takes no risks (to upset the status quo).
You are LITERALLY advocating totalitarian dictatorship, and then, at the same time, wanting to avoid conflict.
So you want dicatorships, but will pathologise any individuals or nations, that won't succumb, and blame THEM for violence, if they resist enslavement!!
My God man!!!!
I have spoken earlier about this. In order to achieve a totalitarian state, whether benevolant or not, there will have to be a transitional period. This transitional period will be a period of crisis and
conflict followed by normalisation of the new way of life, which is dictated by the new regime.
I am not advocating anything by the way... I am merely discussing ideas
in relation to difficult questions. I don't consider myself right or
wrong - it's just a debate on ideological beliefs regarding economic, political and social systems.
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:54 pm
Before fixing a problem, the root cause must be established. Why do people turn to crime? Why do gangs exist? Why do people blindly allow bad things to happen in their neighborhoods? Why do these same people fear the police showing up? Why do people resort to violence? Questions like these will need to be answered first before we can consider making changes.
I agree we'll never have world peace or eliminate all crime. Crime is not just a poverty issue. I knew kids from well to do families that would steal for the thrill of it. These are questions I cannot answer. I do have some hope because if we can teach kids not to touch hot stoves or stick things in electrical outlets, we can early on establish principals of self respect, honesty, and morality.
People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not
just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have
been murdering each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will never be peace.
A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the strict
confines of a civilised society.
So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically alter
people to be kinder and more empathetic, and have a universal belief system...
On 08-23-20 08:50, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Letting the tribe look after the kids collectively sounds like such an ugly idea.
It worked for most of humanity's existence. Our currently tightly controlle nuclear families are a very recent development, and more of a Western idea. Even today, many other cultures have much stronger extended families than we o.
I know who my neighbors are and I would not trust a candy bar to them.
Again, in the context of a very sick and unnatural society. :/
... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am
not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and
Protestants have been murdering each other for centuries, and
they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and
Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will never
be peace.
A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be
done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the
strict confines of a civilised society.
So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically
alter people to be kinder and more empathetic, and have a
universal belief system...
Andeddu wrote to Boraxman <=-
I don't recall The Renaissance and The Age of Enlightenment esposing values which turned humans into mindless sheep which would blindly follow someone elses value system.
No, they didn't really have "The Borg" mentalitiy... which is a
shame.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Also you should brush up on your history a little. Ever heard of
the Inquisition/Crusades? How about the Black Death? Perhaps
other major diseases and famine? Maybe an average lifespan of
35-ish years old? Does the name Ghengis Khan and the Mongolian
conquests mean anything?
Yes, I have heard of all of those Crusades and Conquests, yet
they still pale in comparison to the 20th Century... I never said
we weren't violent in the past. In actuality, I said, we have
always been violent and have never achieved peace in all of human
history.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:23 pm
In the film and TV series for Logan's Run, the age was 30. My underrstanding from what others said, the age is younger in the original story. Everyone is dietarily "on the pill," so sex with multiple partner is a common activity. Children are genetically designed from harvested D and grown in artficial wombs, and the children are raised by the system without parents. In one
part of the film they implied sometime there are unplanned children, and they are normally taken to an older, less visited are of the domed city. looked like a cathedral long abandoned by the culture, and the residents there live off the grid.
I'll have to watch the movie. I will pick it up sometime soon and see it because I am interested in the subject matter, and it's a fairly famous film just think 30 is a little young as the idea is that you sacrifice yourself f the good of society once you become a net deficit due to old age.
It's interesting to see that these ideas have been around for almost 90 year and technology has only just caught up. I wonder if some of these outlandish schemes are going to be put into practice in ther future.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Fri Aug 21 2020 12:38 pm
A society that is too slow to react to change can also be a detriment.
There has to be moderation. The Catholic church, for instance, was unable to accept new ideas. It inflicted death unto those who refused to believe its version of the faith... as Christianity is (technically) set in stone though the old literature, zealous believers did everything they could to preserve original structure and core ideals.
I think the core ideals of a civilisaiton should remain the same, however, other (less important) aspects can be open to adaptation. Change everything you end up with chaos.
People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have been murderi each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will ne be peace.
A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the strict confines of a civilised society.
So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically alter people t be kinder and more empathetic, and have a universal belief system...
I have spoken earlier about this. In order to achieve a totalitarian state, whether benevolant or not, there will have to be a transitional period. This transitional period will be a period of crisis and conflict followed by normalisation of the new way of life, which is dictated by the new regime.
I am not advocating anything by the way... I am merely discussing ideas in relation to difficult questions. I don't consider myself right or wrong - it just a debate on ideological beliefs regarding economic, political and socia systems.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sat Aug 22 2020 08:36 am
It makes the statement "we need law enforcement". The fact of the matte is blacks disrespect police and resist arrest. I don't want New York City turn into another Portland or Seattle. These people must be stopped and l enforcement is the only way to do that.
We need safer communities, and for that to happen... we need more police, no fewer. A lower level of crime would attract businesses which would rejuvinat the area. I don't see how reducing the policing budget could EVER reduce cri as it would only reinforce the spiral of violence, poverty and destitution.
.... Try adopting a system they can grow into and buy into
versus a system forced upon them before birth.
People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have been murderi each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will ne be peace.
Moondog wrote to Andeddu <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Mon Aug 24 2020 02:17 am
People kill each other for the most trivial of reasons, and I am not just referring to Medieval times. The Catohlics and Protestants have been murderi each other for centuries, and they beleive in the same God... likewise so do the Sunnis and Shias. Until we have a universal belief system, there will ne be peace.
A lot of people are just born bad. There isn't much that can be done to help them especially if they're supposed to abide by the strict confines of a civilised society.
So we are left with the only solution which is to genetically alter people t be kinder and more empathetic, and have a universal belief system...
Adopting a universal belief system would be as hard as getting everyone
in the world to buy into a true socialist system. Genetic modification can get out of control, and breed people into being a creature that
would not be able to survive outside it's structured system. Imagine there is a disaster that forces people to move out of their cities to
hunt and forage because the system cannot provide for them? Some
aspects of aggressive behavior are survi val related, and breeding this out of drone factory workers does not sound like a future plan for failure.
Let's stick with teaching kids morals, ethics, and self responsibility.
Man has the intelligence to operate at a higher level of self
discipline, we just need to figure how to make it work for the majority
of the people. Try adopting a system they can grow into and buy into versus a system forced upon them before birth.
I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at how massive this thread had become. I got sucked into
installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently which led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
everything's good now, I hope.
How you all guys doing?
Andeddu wrote to Moondog <=-
I'll have to watch the movie. I will pick it up sometime soon and see
it because I am interested in the subject matter, and it's a fairly
famous film. I just think 30 is a little young as the idea is that you sacrifice yourself for the good of society once you become a net
deficit due to old age.
Andeddu wrote to HusTler <=-
We need safer communities, and for that to happen... we need more
police, not fewer. A lower level of crime would attract businesses
which would rejuvinate the area. I don't see how reducing the policing budget could EVER reduce crime as it would only reinforce the spiral of violence, poverty and destitution.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Andeddu <=-
Whoever came up with the term "defund police" must not have
worked in marketing.
You reduce the police budget, use the money to create programs
with economic opportunity and pay for social services to deal with
the non-criminal tasks that police have to do by default nowadays.
You don't need to deal with an emotionally disturbed homeless person
with a tazer, baton and a glock.
There needs to be a way to prosecute law enforcement officers
fairly. Qualified Immunity needs to be changed.
Police departments need to have a zero tolerance policy for
escessive violence. Good luck with the police unions on that.
Oh, and get them out of combat gear - and have the military sell
the surplus military vehicles to a friendly country, if there are
any left, instead of donating it to law enforcement agencies.
Andeddu wrote to HusTler <=-
We need safer communities, and for that to happen... we need more police, not fewer. A lower level of crime would attract businesses which would rejuvinate the area. I don't see how reducing the policing budget could EVER reduce crime as it would only reinforce the spiral of violence, poverty and destitution.
Whoever came up with the term "defund police" must not have worked in
marketing.
You reduce the police budget, use the money to create programs with
economic opportunity and pay for social services to deal with the
non-criminal tasks that police have to do by default nowadays. You
don't need to deal with an emotionally disturbed homeless person with
a tazer, baton and a glock.
You train police in de-escalation and make them a part of the
community they serve. I hear way to much "us versus them" from police
organizations.
You eliminate asset forfeiture laws, which are nothing now except
untraced funding sources for police departments.
There needs to be a way to prosecute law enforcement officers fairly.
Qualified Immunity needs to be changed.
Police departments need to have a zero tolerance policy for escessive
violence. Good luck with the police unions on that.
You re-build trust.
Oh, and get them out of combat gear - and have the military sell the
surplus military vehicles to a friendly country, if there are any
left, instead of donating it to law enforcement agencies.
... Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
On 08-24-20 09:10, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I don't look up to most cultures that feature weak extended families.
Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-ma
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm
I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at how
ssive this thread had become. I got sucked intowhi
installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
everything's good now, I hope.
How you all guys doing?
Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.
I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for asking.
On 08-24-20 09:10, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I don't look up to most cultures that feature weak extended families.
Like our Western society? ;) Our extended family links are weaker than many Asian a
European cultures. I see the contrast here between those of Anglo descent and peop
from other cultural backgrounds. The non Anglo cultures seem to invest a lot more
energy in their extended families.
... Staring into a dragon's jaws, one quickly learns wisdom.
Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm
I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at howma
ssive this thread had become. I got sucked intowhi
installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
everything's good now, I hope.
How you all guys doing?
Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.
It's not that bad, but we had a break-in a few days ago. Lost my phone, two of my
bags that had some valuables including a backup hard drive of my office files as we
as my wallet which had a lot of personal IDs and cards. I got my phone number back
now, my driver's license and my bank card. I was lucky I backed all of my data from
the stolen phone a few weeks prior so I still had my contacts and photos with me.
I'm quite disturbed until now, thinking that the thief was actually in my room whi
I was sleeping, now I'm paranoid that I placed a barrel bolt lock on my door. But
thinking about it right now, it's quite funny to me that my laptop which is a Think
T400 was left there unmolested, silently compiling stuff while the robber did his j
I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for asking.
What are you selling?
... You want to delete me right? Yeah, you sure do. You slut.
They still are. Dying for Allah is the same shit to me. Religion is man made and has no place in the real world. People are scared shitless of dying and need to believe there is someplace better when we kick. Someplace where we can see Mom again. I guess this belongs in Debates or Religion eh? ;-)
Now I'm thinking of a bad movie with Lee Majors playing a guy who,
after the Gas Wars, when vehicles are outlawed, drives across country
in an illegal car while being chased by elements of a totalitarian
government. I think it came out the same time as "Red Barchetta".
Whoever came up with the term "defund police" must not have worked in
marketing.
You reduce the police budget, use the money to create programs with
economic opportunity and pay for social services to deal with the
non-criminal tasks that police have to do by default nowadays. You
don't need to deal with an emotionally disturbed homeless person with
a tazer, baton and a glock.
You train police in de-escalation and make them a part of the
community they serve. I hear way to much "us versus them" from police
organizations.
You eliminate asset forfeiture laws, which are nothing now except
untraced funding sources for police departments.
There needs to be a way to prosecute law enforcement officers fairly.
Qualified Immunity needs to be changed.
Police departments need to have a zero tolerance policy for escessive
violence. Good luck with the police unions on that.
You re-build trust.
If you were a police officer, and the criminals were often
wearing/using combat gear, would you like to also have combat
gear? Would you like to take on a crazed killer using semi/auto
weapons and body armor, whilst wearing a T-shirt and a baton?
Force must be met with equal/greater force, if you want to live.
I see your point, but when MANY of the criminals have superior weapons/shielding than the police, what should they do?
This is a good illustration of the problem with the
liberal/Democrat approach to solving police problems. It's very
easy to say (and get the "base" all fired up by doing it) things
like "Defund the Police!", but such methods are sorely lacking in
reality. It's a 'effin WAR out there, and the bad guys are
heavily armed, often with nothing to lose. Again I ask, would
*YOU* want to be a police officer, and be told that you now have
to face these assholes with LESS equipment than you already have?
If that was me, I'd quit. A lot of them have quit. What if they
all quit? What's the solution then?
Most politicians (on both sides) need a big heavy dose of reality
dumped on their heads. They have no idea how it is out there in
the actual real-life world. Another thing that contributes to the
"police problems" is that we never see the GOOD outcomes that GOOD
cops produce. That doesn't sell ads or make the news. That
doesn't fit the agenda. "They" don't want that kind of thing seen
by the masses.
possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.
On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even
Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I think you are referring to The Last Chase. I haven't seen it
myself... seems like it's another film I'll have to add to my list! Is
it so bad that it's not worth watching?
On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even
And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.
... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm
possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive
enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people
will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they
commit.
I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.
MRO wrote to HusTler <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm
possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive
enough think that ending religion would bring about peace... people
will always fin way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they
commit.
I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.
you're seeing it right now. people are fighting based on their skin
color ---
On 08-27-20 10:44, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes
under the same roof.
possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enough >> think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always fin >> way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.
I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world would like without it.
If you are referring to the current riots, that is religion. "Wokeness" is a manifestation of the religious instinct. Social Justice, Inclusion, etc are justifications for carrying out what are in essence, the very same behaviours and demands that religious people in the past have pushed when they wanted adherence to their orthodoxy.
Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under the same roof.
I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for more than three days.
Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes
under the same roof.
Like you, I'm too conditioned to the Western way, but I can separate my upbringing with other ideas, I don't conflate them as in "the way I was brought up is the best".
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to HusTler on Wed Aug 26 2020 03:50 pm
possible to justify waging war against non-believers. I am not naive enou think that ending religion would bring about peace... people will always way to justify in their minds the horrific acts they commit.
I doubt ending religion would bring peace to. I often wonder what our world
HusTler
havens.synchro.net:23
On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not even
And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.
... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.
Andeddu wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I think you are referring to The Last Chase. I haven't seen it myself... seems like it's another film I'll have to add to my list! Is it so bad that it's not worth watching?
I remember watching it when I was a kid and being impressed by it -
I think it and Rollerball turned me to distopian science fiction.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Thu Aug 27 2020 08:44 pm
On 08-26-20 05:53, Arelor wrote to Vk3jed <=-
Western society is not built around extended families at all. Not ev
And I'm wondering if that is one of the many issues we have.
... Bad day: Smokey the Bear stamps out your birthday cake.
Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under the same roof.
I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for more than three days.
I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
On 8/27/2020 8:44 AM, Arelor wrote:
Feel free to live with your parents, grandparents, sons and nephes under t same roof.
I know I would kill half of them if I had to endure such situation for mor than three days.
I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or agree with.
--
Michael J. Ryan
tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS
In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is required, and after some time the family you create and their families they create take precedence over the family you left behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties the last generation had are not maintained.
In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions are the same,
and some have evolved over time. A common thread is people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their lives. I don't
In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions
are the same, and some have evolved over time. A common thread is
people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their
lives. I don't
Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks were my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you are bad and born a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth and tell the priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you ask me.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:43 am
In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to
the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is
required, and after some time the family you create and their
families they create take precedence over the family you left
behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties
the last generation had are not maintained.
Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of people in the US don't live in the state they were originally from. It seems people in the US move a lot.
I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I live & work in the same general area I grew up in.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm
The world will be better off without relgion. It's like taking a cancer out.
I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.
I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or agree with.
Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that a lot of people in the US
don't live in the state they were originally from. It seems people
in the US move a lot.
I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I
live & work in the same general area I grew up in.
maybe it just seems that way because of the region you are in. in my area people stick around the same region. the jobs are here so we dont have to relocate.
Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to a massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.
I think that last part is probably more important than the first. Too
many people in western societies today lack the skill of being able to
interact, negotiate and work with people they either don't like or
agree with.
Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to a massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.
You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..
Andeddu wrote to Tracker1 <=-
I would say that humanism in general isn't necessarily a religion,
because it doesn't have an innate higher power beyond the self. But
it's definitely similar, and far more dangerous imho.
Christopher Hitchens on Communism and Religion...
On 08-28-20 12:32, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-
I know some people from Brazil and have visited there a few times. It seems more common there for people to live with their parents until
they get married, etc., and it seems overall they're more
family-oriented and group-oriented there. And then one time while back
in the US, I was talking with a few people from Brazil here, and one
said she used to like to spend time with other people a lot in Brazil,
but while in the US, she started getting used to doing things on her
own and started to get more bothered when people would call her at
random times asking to hang out or go do something with her, etc..
On 08-28-20 10:43, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-
In the US we have a lot of land and long distances to travel. Due to
the demands of a community, moving away to find better work is
required, and after some time the family you create and their families they create take precedence over the family you left behind. The same happens in a local area as well if whatever ties the last generation
had are not maintained. One of my cousin's wife 's hobbies is
geneology, and she did research tracing back my father's mother's
family. There's an old saying that your first friends are your
cousins, and in my case it was even more true! My grandmother and her borthers and sisters were a tight group, however their cousins on their father's side didn't talk or meet much. My great grandfather had
several brothers and sisters as well, however when they formed their
own families, they never gathered or socialized any more. While my friends may not have been direct or first cousins, several were seconds
or shared a common ancestor. One of our neighbors around the block had
a big party, and when I'd ask friends and acquaintences there how they know my neighbor, they'd ment ion a second cousin or other relative
that I would also recognize, then we'd figure out how many degrees of separation were between us.
It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for that.
DaiTengu
You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason
your reply was addressed to Tracker1..
i'm using your msg editor
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:06 pm
You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason
your reply was addressed to Tracker1..
i'm using your msg editor
My message editor has no way of controlling who the message is posted to. That's done by Synchronet. The message editor just edits whatever file Synchronet tells it to edit.
In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions
Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks
I grew up catholic, went to catholic schools, but was a pretty terrible kid
It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for
"You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated in a seminary in Georgia, by the way. Up until 1917, for hundereds of years, hundreds of millions of Russians have been told that the head of the state i a state that did that and fell into tyranny, and slavery, and famine and torture and then we'll be on a level playing field. As it is, all you've don is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea of servility and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place."
Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes due to massive funding gap. I can foresee the old ways returning as the current methods are simply unsustainable.
Western societies cannot afford to house elderly people in care homes
Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I ha
the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living th or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funde in the US.
my mom was a manager at a nursing home. that shit was expensive. some resident's costs are over a thousand usd a day. i dont even know if insuranc even covers that type of care anymore. ---
You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..
i'm using your msg editor
---
Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I had
the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living there or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funded in the US.
my mom was a manager at a nursing home. that shit was expensive. some resident's costs are over a thousand usd a day. i dont even know if insurance even covers that type of care anymore.
Never heard of him.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 10:55 am
In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and
depression combined with identity politics. Not that all religions
are the same, and some have evolved over time. A common thread is
people that have faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their
lives. I don't
Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks we my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you a bad and born a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth an tell the priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you as me.
I grew up catholic, went to catholic schools, but was a pretty terrible kid believed in religion, or in any specific brand of religion.
It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the
DaiTengu
... I'm famous. That's my job.
I've been able to stay in the same state though, and currently I live & work in the same general area I grew up in.
maybe it just seems that way because of the region you are in. in my area p
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: mage to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 03:53 pm
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Wed Aug 26 2020 11:30 pm
The world will be better off without relgion. It's like taking a cancer out.
maybe the world would be better without people like you who think in such ab
It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most
of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal
damnmation for that.
It must be nice to be able to feel that way.
My experience is that if you are nice to people you get a stab in the back.
My most succesful relations are business relations that are dead cold corporative emotionless for some reason.
What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.
What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.
of income. Banks SS pensions, Mutal funds etc. If you still have money in the bank (In your name) or own property (Car, House, Stocks, Bonds or any other income) you will have to exhaust those funds/sell before uncle sam will pay. If you still own a home and need a Nursing Home the government has the right to take that home to pay your bill. And they WILL take your home. I've know many people that have lost their homes to the government that way. Word of advice. Plan for your future.
mattered and he saw no discrimination. No one disagreed at that time. When he finished and walked away, the other Indian guys mentioned he was in a high caste with great priviledge. I don't know if the guy was exaggerating, but he said the other guy had servants to carry him so he would not touch the ground. Obviously, he would see no difference in treatment.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Never heard of him.
You obviously don't do much reading.
He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
generation.
Also, he was
speaking ill of Communism, likening it to a sick religion...
you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehention.
Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Damnation Alley was my gateway to post apocalyptic society. Ark II was another favorite. I watched some Planet of the Apes before that,
however I was too young to really appreciate some of it.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Andeddu to Tracker1 on Sat Aug 29 2020 09:57 am
"You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated in seminary in Georgia, by the way. Up until 1917, for hundereds of years, hundreds of millions of Russians have been told that the head of the stat a state that did that and fell into tyranny, and slavery, and famine and torture and then we'll be on a level playing field. As it is, all you've is show that the idea of worship and the idea of credulity and the idea o servility and slavery to religion is a bad idea in the first place."
What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communi Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under des at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil peopl What else is new?
HusTler
havens.synchro.net:23
Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?
My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's
taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
and he especially liked the intro.
"THE FUTURE - 1997."
What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?
What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Never heard of him.
You obviously don't do much reading.
I do a LOT of reading. Just not about leftist-whackjobs out on
the fringe of lunacy. Don't have any time for that kind of
nonsense. I'm happy that you do, though.
He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
generation.
LOL! Yeah right.
Also, he was
speaking ill of Communism, likening it to a sick religion...
you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehention.
I'd have "saw" it if I had "comprehention", eh?
Sounds like you need to do some reading too, of middle-school
textbooks.
i'm pretty sure the nursing home model is a failed one and they transitioned an 'assisted living' model. it's still expensive. ---
any other income) you will have to exhaust those funds/sell before uncle sam will pay. If you still own a home and need a Nursing Home thethat's too bad but that's how it goes. i wish that instead of social security,etc my money would go into a private fund like a 401k. that way i
i'm planning to work until i die. that's my gameplan. i dont have much saved for retirement because i wasnt smart during my 20s. i had to work hard thro my 30s and now i might lose employment because of the economy and the covid. this was supposed to be my last job. i'm tough though. i have other jobs i mind, but i dont like starting over or managing people. ---
"You're Joseph Stalin, you've taken over Russia. You've been educated
What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a
Communi Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up
I think his point is that when you become a dictator, you try to keep your citizen-slaves down and controlled via belief systems such as religion. Also I think it is implied that personalist dictatorships (Arelor is the ruler because he is the best, he eats nails for breakfast and squashes nazies with the pinky finger!) are much like religions.
That's awesome. lots of people (myself included, sometimes) don't apprecia some of the more classic sci-fi and cult films like that because the pacing them is just so much slower than films now days.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Moondog to MRO on Sun Aug 30 2020 10:30 am
mattered and he saw no discrimination. No one disagreed at that time. W he finished and walked away, the other Indian guys mentioned he was in high caste with great priviledge. I don't know if the guy was exaggerating, but he said the other guy had servants to carry him so he would not touch the ground. Obviously, he would see no difference in treatment.
yeah and people will always find a way to spot differences and treat someone
Moondog wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Damnation Alley was my gateway to post apocalyptic society. Ark II was another favorite. I watched some Planet of the Apes before that, however I was too young to really appreciate some of it.
Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?
My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's
taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
and he especially liked the intro.
"THE FUTURE - 1997."
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Sat Aug 29 2020 07:45 am
Who'd win in a street fight? Snake Plissken or Hell Tanner?
Damnation Alley has been on my "to read" list for years. I should probably
My son is 17 and took a film appreciation class last year, and he's taken a liking to cult classics. We watched "Escape from New York",
and he especially liked the intro.
That's awesome. lots of people (myself included, sometimes) don't apprecia
"THE FUTURE - 1997."
Man, remember when that was "The Future" ?
DaiTengu
... First secure an independent income, then practice virtue.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: HusTler to Andeddu on Sun Aug 30 2020 01:50 pm
What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hid under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?
The point is that you do not require a divine supreme being to believe in, i order to have a religion. So called "secular" ideologies are every bit as religious as those that claim to be.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Tracker1 to HusTler on Fri Aug 28 2020 10:58 am
In a way we're seeing a lot of that... Humanist narcisism and depression
combined with identity politics. Not that all religions are the same,
and some have evolved over time. A common thread is people that have
faith tend to be happier and more fulfilled in their lives. I don't
Don't know about that. It took me 3 years of Psychotherapy to undo the damage
done by my Chatholic upbringing. Depression and panic attacks were my primary symptoms. That will happen when you're told as a child you are bad and born
a sinner. To be forgivin you have to go in a dark booth and tell the
priest how bad you were/are. That's pretty sick shit if you ask me.
It's just easier to be nice to people. If you're nice to people, most of the time, they're nice to you. I don't need some fear of eternal damnmation for that.
You quoted me & seemed to be replying to me, but for some reason your reply was addressed to Tracker1..
It could be the region I'm in. It seems most people here moved here from out of state. It seems there are a lot of people here from other countries too. People sometimes joke about the number of people from California who have moved here, and people who are from here sometimes joke about being one of the few who are actually from here.
Yet there are a lot of elderly people living in care homes in the US.. I had
the impression that the costs are usually paid by the individuals living there or their families, at least in the US. I don't think they're publicly funded in the US.
It must be nice to be able to feel that way.
My experience is that if you are nice to people you get a stab in the back.
My most succesful relations are business relations that are dead cold corporative emotionless for some reason.
What's your point? Are you pissed for being Russian or raised in a Communist Country? Thanks for the history lesson but I was brought up hiding under desks at school for fear of being bombed by Russia. So yea. Commies are Evil people. What else is new?
What are you talking about? Nursing Homes are completly full here in the US. It's almost impossible to find an empty bed. Can't afford? If you can't afford it the Government pays for it. It's called Medicaid. Ever hear of it? Unsustainable? Says who? You? Americans have always taken care of our own. That's who we are.
Not very likely. Most US families live pay cheque to pay cheque and social care
can cost around one thousand dollars each week. The elderly ususally have to liquidate their assets to pay for their own care, however those who have nothing do not have to pay. In the UK that's what happens as a lot of older people anticipating a move into a care home transfer their houses and other assets to their offspring 7 years prior, so they do not have any assets worth seizing.
Social care is one of the largest unfunded liabilities in the West and no country can afford it in the long-term. New solutions will have to be discovered for our generation. I hope automation can deal with this problem...
robot carers may be the future.
I was raised as a Lutheran, and also lived in a rural environment. I have visitied Catholic churches and sat through Catholic services, though. From what I perceived, Catholicism is much more urbanized. More detail is put into the appearance of the church to inspire it's greatness and power, and some of the practices such as hearing a confession appeared to be means for a church run state to know who the troublemakers were.
Some things were carried over or kept from Catholicism after the reformation, t
however the Luthern faith has a little more compatibility with regards to expansionism because it's structure is stripped down. In a way they put less reliance in the church to connect with God. Lutherans still like to have a nice church to goto , however they are not as ornate. I have only been to two
or three churches that were older than 100 years old, and they were a little
more ornate, but otherwise newer churches put more in the utility of the building.
In adult life I never really considered faith a reason to like or dislike peopel, however the strange thing is the better friends I had turned to be Lutheran without me knowing it right away.
Not bragging, just an observation. Have others such as Catholics find theselv
es making more friends of their faith without previous knowledge?
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
Never heard of him.
You obviously don't do much reading.
I do a LOT of reading. Just not about leftist-whackjobs out on
the fringe of lunacy. Don't have any time for that kind of
nonsense. I'm happy that you do, though.
He's one of the most celebrated intellects of the previous
generation.
LOL! Yeah right.
So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.
Never heard of him.
You obviously don't do much reading. He's one of the most celebrated intelle of the previous generation. Also, he was speaking ill of Communism, likening to a sick religion... you'd have saw that if you had any reading comprehenti
It can be easier if you shift your assets into a trust in your early 50s
as well, long before you are close to that point. It takes some legal
and accounting work to set these things up, but is often worth the
effort. Another point is to not buy anything (such as a car) you
wouldn't outright own, to avoid debt once you're in your 50's.
Also, establish trustees that you *really* can trust and/or paid
fiduciary services.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, so seek professional advice
if you consider the above.
So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.
I did read it, and looked up the whacko (on Wikipedia). Thus my
comments above. Yup.
Andeddu wrote to Gamgee <=-
So you made a comment to me without actually reading the
relatively small paragraph I had pasted onto my post.
I did read it, and looked up the whacko (on Wikipedia). Thus my
comments above. Yup.
Ahh, so you're trolling me... good one.
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Tracker1 to Andeddu on Mon Aug 31 2020 04:18 pm
It can be easier if you shift your assets into a trust in your early 50s as well, long before you are close to that point. It takes some legal and accounting work to set these things up, but is often worth the effort. Another point is to not buy anything (such as a car) you wouldn't outright own, to avoid debt once you're in your 50's.
Also, establish trustees that you *really* can trust and/or paid fiduciary services.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, so seek professional advice if you consider the above.
I reckon you're probably right with those loopholes. I don't really begrudge those carry out creative accounting to avoid having their assets seized... after all, I'd rather give my assets to my children rather than the state, a the state looks after those with nothing to give... so why should they give anything? I've read you posts on this matter and agree with what you've said There is no way we can continue down the route of nursing homes for those wh CANNOT afford it. My worry is what will happen to those who do not have families capable or willing to look after them. Will they just be left homel in miserable destitution? I hope private charities can help out. Bleak times ahead.
I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.
I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.
Well, if it helps, private and religions charities have been helping out elders non stop with this COVID-19 crisis.
Some customers of the clinic I work for or the store I own stopped receiving their pension altogether. One kept receiving healthcare from her insurance but no pension, resulting in her being able to get a doctor but no food (!) Some church sponsored programs have been keeping this people afloat.
I have also seen friends support friends who could not afford the groceries or the rent. For sure this is the first year I have had to lend money to somebody so he could do his grocery trip of the week (!). I don't trust human's goodwill in the long run, but I hope charity can help us short term.
I don't trust Elon Musk in general, nevermind letting that fucking nutjob put things in my head-meat. The guy couldn't even put crumple zones in the Cybertruck. It's a deathtrap.
First, everyone is making a huge fuss over nothing. this
nuralink thing has been done for quite awhile, it's just
that Musk now has a way to implant wires a bit easier.
And did I miss the crash testing data on the Cybertruck? I
was under the impression it hadn't been tested yet.
nuralink thing has been done for quite awhile, it's just
that Musk now has a way to implant wires a bit easier.
What exactly has "been done"?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/elon-musk-demonstrates-brain-computer-tech -neuralink-in-live-pigs.html
Seems like all he was able to do was attach some kind of receiver to monitor brain activity in pigs. Will we ever know what the pigs think about that? <G>
Then the article just talks about "potential" for other things. I would be more interested in the success/failure rate management of infections or the body's rejection of those things.
Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-how
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Atroxi to Arelor on Wed Aug 26 2020 04:20 pm
Arelor wrote to Atroxi <=-
Re: Re: Neuralink
By: Atroxi to Moondog on Tue Aug 25 2020 01:31 pm
I'm sorry, I was a bit out of the loop recently and have lost track at
mafiles
ssive this thread had become. I got sucked intowhi
installing FreeBSD and some horrible stuff happened at our house recently
ch led me to losing a bunch of my stuff. But
everything's good now, I hope.
How you all guys doing?
Did you have a fire or something? If so, that is too bad.
It's not that bad, but we had a break-in a few days ago. Lost my phone, two
of my
bags that had some valuables including a backup hard drive of my office
as wenumber
as my wallet which had a lot of personal IDs and cards. I got my phone
backdat
now, my driver's license and my bank card. I was lucky I backed all of my
a fromwith
the stolen phone a few weeks prior so I still had my contacts and photos
me.ro
I'm quite disturbed until now, thinking that the thief was actually in my
om whidoor.
I was sleeping, now I'm paranoid that I placed a barrel bolt lock on my
Buta
thinking about it right now, it's quite funny to me that my laptop which is
Thinkdid
T400 was left there unmolested, silently compiling stuff while the robber
his ja
I am doing fine, setting an online store and selling stuff. Thanks for
sking.
What are you selling?
... You want to delete me right? Yeah, you sure do. You slut.
Man that sucks. I usually sleep with two Rottweilers in my room and
other 4 around the house, but Ibet a thief could get a pass from them
by petting them behind the ears :-(
I have a parafarmacy. Most of what I sell are vitamins and suplements. Lots of higyene and cosmetics (soap and the like too). It is not
exactly a great business but it supplements my sysadmining and
magazining.
I have a parafarmacy. Most of what I sell are vitamins and suplements. Lots of higyene and cosmetics (soap and the like too). It is not exactly a great business but it supplements my sysadmining and magazining.
That sounds cool. Hey, as long as it pays the bills isn't it. Do you make y own stuff or do you buy it from someone else? Craft soaps seems to be someth of a hit these days.
health, etc... a lot of us will buy into and become invested in the idea as it will, in a more mature stage of development, provide benefits to those who are fully abled.
I wanted to get a Neuralink so that I could get an Arduino board with a CANBUS-Shield connected to my cars ODBII port so that I could neurally interface with my car. The most the thing is gonna realistically be able to is read signals and send them to other places via Bluetooth. I want an interface hard wire plug option.
No shit? Wish I knew WTF you were talking about. ;-)
... There's little worse than being peerless in a peer-review system.
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