poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Bex <=-

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max
before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

Every once in a while we get an influx of kidz who read about retro networks and chime in, but I don't think any of them have hung around.

You just made me think of a really good analogy: we are a roadside
attraction, like the Giant Tumbleweed or the World's Largest Ball of
String! Many people stop by to see it when driving from Point A to Point B. Some people make us a destination attraction - they come by and spend some
time in the attraction's little town. Most people drive on the major
highways and have no idea that there's a little town with a small roadside attraction along the old roads that most people have long since abandoned.

And then there's us. We are the townies. We keep the attraction pretty, we
make sure there are plenty of flowers to brighten up the place, we have our little five and dimes where we try to get tourists to spend a little bit of money and time. And then we wave goodbye as the tourists move on.

Our little town is dying, the flow of tourists are mostly going somewhere
else. We'll stay in our town and convince ourselves that things will turn around in just a couple of weeks. We hold on to the hope that someday our little town will return to its former glory.

But it isn't going to happen, and our little town will just keep turning
into a ghost town.



-+- Brightening your day. -Bex <3

... "Not all who wander are aimless, especially those who seek truth beyond trad
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Hello Bex!

** On Thursday 10.11.22 - 09:39, Bex wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

You just made me think of a really good analogy: we are a
roadside attraction, [...]

But it isn't going to happen, and our little town will just
keep turning into a ghost town.

That'a ALMOST a really good analogy. These people will still
want to spend their dollars with modern PayPass, ApplePay,
GooglePay. Or use the devices of THEIR choice to take
pictures, pay, research, etc.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: Blue White to Irish_Monk on Mon Oct 03 2022 16:06:42

As best as I can tell, it did pick up some after COVID hit. There have also been a few people here and there who have said they are back because they are burned out on modern social media and/or don't trust it.
Seems like some of the folks that came back have already gone on, but some others have stuck around.

i'm the opposite.. always had a hankering to get back on it, but telnet just isnt quite the same to me LOL

that' said. Mine is up, don't get callers yet, btu then i havent advertisedd it either.

it's mainly on for me more than anything else... maybe when i get it the way i like it then i'll start advertising it more :D

one of these days though, im going to put it on the actual "retro" (omg lol) computer - a 286 i have here lying around that i want to run it on.

but that said, i will need to do it the old school way and i just ain't got the time for that right now lol

regards
===

Charles Blackburn
The F.B.O BBS 21:1/221 618:250/36
bbs.thefbo.us IPV4/V6
DOVE-Net FSX-Net MicroNET USENET
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: The FBO BBS - bbs.thefbo.us (21:1/221)

Hello Irish_Monk!

** On Monday 03.10.22 - 19:47, Irish_Monk wrote to Blue White:

Yeah, thats a huge reason I came back also. I just dont
like modern day social media. Its way too commercialized.
Of course, this is just me, but I think its weird how
people have to have friends on facebook they really dont
know anymore(from like elementary school, etc..). And then
sorta invite them in, to see all your family pics, updates
of exactly what you are doing. But, Im also the kind of
guy who likes a small good quality friend circle and not
quantinty. Everyone is different tho!!

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of
personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.



--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

On 04 Oct 2022, Ogg said the following...

Hello Irish_Monk!

** On Monday 03.10.22 - 19:47, Irish_Monk wrote to Blue White:

Yeah, thats a huge reason I came back also. I just dont
like modern day social media. Its way too commercialized.
Of course, this is just me, but I think its weird how
people have to have friends on facebook they really dont
know anymore(from like elementary school, etc..). And then
sorta invite them in, to see all your family pics, updates
of exactly what you are doing. But, Im also the kind of
guy who likes a small good quality friend circle and not
quantinty. Everyone is different tho!!

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of
personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.

Maybe someone could make an add on for that. Your account credentials set up as a Profile page viewable on the web. Give that to them and they will come
:D

|23|04Dr|16|12Claw
|16|14Sysop |12Noverdu |14BBS |04(|14Noverdu.com|04)
|10Standard Ports for SSH/Telnet Web/HTTP://|14Noverdu.com:808
|20|15fsxNet/MRC Chat/Registered Doors!/50Nodes/No Time Use! Stay On!|16|07

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Noverdu BBS (21:1/210)

Re: BBS Population
By: Ogg to Irish_Monk on Tue Oct 04 2022 11:33 pm

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of
personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.

I think MySpace was even more like that before FaceBook in that MySpace also let users control the look & feel of their account page via the use of CSS. But I heard a lot of people didn't like the inconsistent look & feel when viewing user accounts, and that's why people started to move away from MySpace and use Facebook instead (I thought that was a little weird - I think it gave a sense of peoples' personalities).

These days, I've been hearing a lot of people don't use Facebook anymore and are using Instagram more often. But I don't really see Instagram as a replacement for Facebook, since Instagram only lets you post photos, whereas Facebook lets you post pretty much any kind of content.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Hello Nightfox!

** On Wednesday 05.10.22 - 12:19, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

[...] and that's why people started to move away from
MySpace and use Facebook instead (I thought that was a
little weird - I think it gave a sense of peoples'
personalities).

Perhaps there is a certain "feel" of realiability when the FB
interface is the same from user to user (same basic blue and
white and the panels placed in the same spots between user to
user)

These days, I've been hearing a lot of people don't use
Facebook anymore and are using Instagram more often. But I
don't really see Instagram as a replacement for Facebook,
since Instagram only lets you post photos, whereas Facebook
lets you post pretty much any kind of content.

I've heard the same that FB membership is on a decline, but I
haven't heard what users are replacing it with. Instagram
seems like a total waste of time to me; it doesn't foster comms
- it foster's "look at me and my stuff!"

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Re: BBS Population
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Wed Oct 05 2022 07:35 pm

These days, I've been hearing a lot of people don't use
Facebook anymore and are using Instagram more often. But I
don't really see Instagram as a replacement for Facebook,
since Instagram only lets you post photos, whereas Facebook
lets you post pretty much any kind of content.

I've heard the same that FB membership is on a decline, but I
haven't heard what users are replacing it with. Instagram
seems like a total waste of time to me; it doesn't foster comms
- it foster's "look at me and my stuff!"

I thought I had heard it was Instagram that people were using more often than Facebook these days. But yeah, I don't really think it's as useable as Facebook since it only lets you post photos.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: BBS Population
By: Ogg to Nightfox on Wed Oct 05 2022 07:35 pm

I've heard the same that FB membership is on a decline, but I
haven't heard what users are replacing it with. Instagram
seems like a total waste of time to me; it doesn't foster comms
- it foster's "look at me and my stuff!"

It loooks like IM from mobile platforms is the prefered substitute for facebook and other common social
media, which sounds bonkers to me because they are not the same thing at all. However, that is how it
seems to be :-)

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.

Maybe someone could make an add on for that. Your account credentials
set up as a Profile page viewable on the web. Give that to them and
they will come :D

DrClaw

Less control than MySpace offered. Facebook offers little control actually.

It's used because of a Network effect. I joined purely because someone else I knew wanted to post photos of their trip there to us, and didn't want to bother with e-mail. Others joined, and soon that is where the people where.

Facebook by and large sucks, is pretty lousy. IT really only has one killer feature. You can find other people you know there and its kind of easy to use (though I found it quite difficult myself).

... The caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello boraxman!

** On Friday 07.10.22 - 00:51, boraxman wrote to claw:

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of
personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.

Less control than MySpace offered. Facebook offers little
control actually.

I *did* say "SENSE of control", and less fuss and bother of
building a personal website.

It's used because of a Network effect. [...]

That too.

Facebook by and large sucks, is pretty lousy. IT really
only has one killer feature. You can find other people you
know there and its kind of easy to use (though I found it
quite difficult myself).

Yes.. looking up and finding other people who are hopefully
using FB is a plus. BBSes don't have that. Maybe if BBSes had
something similar to looking up a name or alias, then people
might like to enjoy participating on the same BBS or meet in
similar echos.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

I think FB has been largely successful because it gives people
a sense of control over their content and emulates a kind of
personal website. BBSes don't offer that for its users.

Less control than MySpace offered. Facebook offers little
control actually.

I *did* say "SENSE of control", and less fuss and bother of
building a personal website.

It is easier, definately. Well, sort of. I administered both a FB page and a website once, and the FB page/group was a PITA.

I must be missing something, but when I see an organisations FB page, it always seems so, bare, plain, and scant. But I'll admit bias, I've personally found FB to just be irritating in almost everyway

It's used because of a Network effect. [...]

That too.

Facebook by and large sucks, is pretty lousy. IT really
only has one killer feature. You can find other people you
know there and its kind of easy to use (though I found it
quite difficult myself).

Yes.. looking up and finding other people who are hopefully
using FB is a plus. BBSes don't have that. Maybe if BBSes had
something similar to looking up a name or alias, then people
might like to enjoy participating on the same BBS or meet in
similar echos.

That is one thing I did find useful, I could look up, and get into touch with old school colleagues. It didn't really result in much, so in the long run, it was nothing which changed anything. The downside of this, is that to be found, to find people, we all have to feed Zuckerburgs panopticon. The idea that we have to give an American Silicon Valley behmoth our personal data so we can be sold ads, manipulated and tracked just to chat to people we went to school with is horrifying. It's like selling your soul to the devil.

I don't think that BBS's could do that, unless you pooled user lists, but then, that is a privacy issue, and people like me and you use aliases anyway.

The problem could be solved by having a distributed system, ie, people hosting their own personal servers, which share a common protocol, where people can be indexed and found. I've thought of each house having like a Pogoplug or Raspberri Pi device with a Social Media server. It could even be installed on your router. Register with an index server and people can search you, and you can "allow" then access to your server.

It wouldn't work of course, because we developed a culture where people default to being passive consumers of product and services, instead of building their own world and helping themselves. In which case, I'm happy to say that I'd rather then that Social Media didn't exist at all, and this would be better than what we have now.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Arelor wrote (2022-10-06):

It loooks like IM from mobile platforms is the prefered substitute for facebook and other common social media, which sounds bonkers to me
because they are not the same thing at all. However, that is how it seems to be :-)

like BBSing: messages, chat and ascii art ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H photos.


⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

Hello boraxman!

** On Friday 07.10.22 - 22:38, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

That is one thing I did find useful, I could look up, and
get into touch with old school colleagues. [...] The idea
that we have to give an American Silicon Valley behmoth our
personal data so we can be sold ads, manipulated and
tracked just to chat to people we went to school with is
horrifying. It's like selling your soul to the devil.

It is terrible how that info was processed. Cambridge-Analytica
anyone?

I don't think that BBS's could do that, unless you pooled
user lists, but then, that is a privacy issue, and people
like me and you use aliases anyway.

The fidonet sysop at net 460 has a lookup that works like
FILEFIND. It can search for anything in an echomail message.

It wouldn't work of course, because we developed a culture
where people default to being passive consumers of product
and services, instead of building their own world and
helping themselves. In which case, I'm happy to say that
I'd rather then that Social Media didn't exist at all, and
this would be better than what we have now.

In the end, it's probably wise to be NOT easily discoverable.
Privacy is emerging as the single-most thing that we ought to
have control of.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

That is one thing I did find useful, I could look up, and
get into touch with old school colleagues. [...] The idea
that we have to give an American Silicon Valley behmoth our
personal data so we can be sold ads, manipulated and
tracked just to chat to people we went to school with is
horrifying. It's like selling your soul to the devil.

It is terrible how that info was processed. Cambridge-Analytica
anyone?

I don't think that BBS's could do that, unless you pooled
user lists, but then, that is a privacy issue, and people
like me and you use aliases anyway.

The fidonet sysop at net 460 has a lookup that works like
FILEFIND. It can search for anything in an echomail message.

It wouldn't work of course, because we developed a culture
where people default to being passive consumers of product
and services, instead of building their own world and
helping themselves. In which case, I'm happy to say that
I'd rather then that Social Media didn't exist at all, and
this would be better than what we have now.

In the end, it's probably wise to be NOT easily discoverable.
Privacy is emerging as the single-most thing that we ought to
have control of.

I agree, privacy and autonomy. I think the latter may end up being the bigger issue in the near future. We can control to a reasonable degree what information we submit, but how that is done, by what mechanisms, and how free we are is another matter.

Even if Facebook was pretty good in terms of privacy, there is still the issue of one single entity having so much POWER, being able to cancel you, so to speak, to have their policies override yours.

There is a danger that were given back privacy, but still lose autonomy. We still can be cut off from others arbitrarily, or because we don't align with some foreign companies values. I'm in Australia, and for me to be booted off Social Media, cutting me from communication with people who I went to school with here, because that company thought something I posted didn't match their foreign, values, kind of doesn't sit well with me.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello boraxman!

** On Sunday 09.10.22 - 02:07, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

There is a danger that were given back privacy, but still
lose autonomy. We still can be cut off from others
arbitrarily, or because we don't align with some foreign
companies values. I'm in Australia, and for me to be
booted off Social Media, cutting me from communication with
people who I went to school with here, because that company
thought something I posted didn't match their foreign,
values, kind of doesn't sit well with me.

In that case, the only alternative you might have is to use a
paid system. A service that collects a fee for comms wouldn't
boot off its users.

A couple of free social media types could still work: Briar,
and Session. Both have private channels, as well as groups and
forums.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Ogg wrote to boraxman <=-

Hello boraxman!

** On Sunday 09.10.22 - 02:07, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

There is a danger that were given back privacy, but still
lose autonomy. We still can be cut off from others
arbitrarily, or because we don't align with some foreign
companies values. I'm in Australia, and for me to be
booted off Social Media, cutting me from communication with
people who I went to school with here, because that company
thought something I posted didn't match their foreign,
values, kind of doesn't sit well with me.

In that case, the only alternative you might have is to use a
paid system. A service that collects a fee for comms wouldn't
boot off its users.

A couple of free social media types could still work: Briar,
and Session. Both have private channels, as well as groups and
forums.

This is what Jaron Lanier has been suggesting. He has some good talks on Social Media, though I'm skeptical of people who help developed social media THEN realised it was flawed. Unfortunately, we hear from tech-bros that change their mind more than we do from people who knew from the start it would be a problem.

http://jaronlanier.com/

Because the user isn't paying, the incentive is to monetise the user. We got spoiled with free services, because the true cost was hidden from us. I'd be OK with a paid service, or even a service which was bundled with the ISP's package.

=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: .:MiNDS EYE BBS:..Melb, Australia..mindseye.synchr (21:3/136)

Re: BBS Population
By: Ogg to boraxman on Sat Oct 08 2022 07:24 pm

Hello boraxman!

** On Sunday 09.10.22 - 02:07, boraxman wrote to Ogg:

There is a danger that were given back privacy, but still
lose autonomy. We still can be cut off from others
arbitrarily, or because we don't align with some foreign
companies values. I'm in Australia, and for me to be
booted off Social Media, cutting me from communication with
people who I went to school with here, because that company
thought something I posted didn't match their foreign,
values, kind of doesn't sit well with me.

In that case, the only alternative you might have is to use a
paid system. A service that collects a fee for comms wouldn't
boot off its users.

A couple of free social media types could still work: Briar,
and Session. Both have private channels, as well as groups and
forums.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Even paid customers are likely to be booted off in the current climate. I have seen
RPG publishers outright declare that they don't want a specific profile of person
playing their games and even offered them refunds (ie. "If you voted for Jack, I don't
want you to play Horses and Halters, and I'd rather refund your copy of Horses and
Halters than see you playing games published by my house").

It is so crazy.

Then there are games that glorify killing a specific profile of person (ie. official
adventures make it clear that killing Jack's supporters is acceptable in-game) so you
can bet they are booting off their customer base any real Jack supporter.

Don't get me started in payment processors who kick people out for political reasons
despite the fact they were making money out of them. You may think that your 50k
USD/month revenue is impressive, but it is nothing for the paypals of this world.


--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

paulie420 said to Irish_Monk: <=-

I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more users,
So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since
the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been?

Hell no - l00k around; we got active FTNs, plenty of rad/active bbSes, modders, groups, ANSI - we've got a bbSphere!

I could be wrong, because I was out of the BBS scene since I shut down my
last board in the late-90s, so I have no actual data on this, but it seems
like there was a major lull around 2008-2016 or so, and then things started
to make a comeback about then. Then another lull around, and then the
pandemic.

I do still think that we are in the end BBS times, once this group of nostalgia-seeking Gen Xers (I'm proudly in that group) moves on, there
isn't going to be anyone who wants to bring it back. The nostalgia window
is a moving window, driven mostly by people in their 40s and 50s. As they
age out, the new group is nostalgia for other experiences.

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max before
all but the most devoted move on to something else.

-*- Bex <3

* Q-Blue 2.4 *
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: Bex to paulie420 on Mon Oct 10 2022 03:00 pm

I could be wrong, because I was out of the BBS scene since I shut down my last board in the late-90s, so I have no actual data on this, but it seems like there was a major lull around 2008-2016 or so, and then things started to make a comeback about then. Then another lull around, and then the pandemic.

I ran a BBS from 1994 to 2000 and then started a BBS up again in 2007 when I realized they were still around. I'm not sure about major lulls, but it seems there have been ups and downs, at least from what I see of message network activity. For the downs, sometimes people say people might just be busy, either traveling (if it's summer) or for the holidays (in the fall/winter).

I do still think that we are in the end BBS times, once this group of nostalgia-seeking Gen Xers (I'm proudly in that group) moves on, there isn't going to be anyone who wants to bring it back. The nostalgia window is a moving window, driven mostly by people in their 40s and 50s. As they age out, the new group is nostalgia for other experiences.

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

I feel like it's hard to know when (or if) BBSes will disappear. I've been running my current BBS more than twice as long as I ran my original BBS in the 90s. It's a hobby I enjoy, and I plan to keep running it and using it as long as there is some BBS activity. I've also developed some scripts/mods for Synchronet, and I enjoy working on those.

I'm a little younger than gen-X (I think I'm just borderline between gen-Y and millennial), but there is the nostalgia factor. For me I still enjoy BBSing though, and I don't think it's something that I'll get bored of.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Bex wrote to paulie420 <=-

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years
max before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

That's what was being said about FidoNet back around 1998-ish...



... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Hell no - l00k around; we got active FTNs, plenty of rad/active bbSes, modders, groups, ANSI - we've got a bbSphere!

I could be wrong, because I was out of the BBS scene since I shut down my last board in the late-90s, so I have no actual data on this, but it
seems like there was a major lull around 2008-2016 or so, and then
things started to make a comeback about then. Then another lull around, and then the pandemic.

LOL - Yer prolly right; I came back around in 2o17 or so. :P HA.

I do still think that we are in the end BBS times, once this group of nostalgia-seeking Gen Xers (I'm proudly in that group) moves on, there isn't going to be anyone who wants to bring it back. The nostalgia window is a moving window, driven mostly by people in their 40s and 50s. As they age out, the new group is nostalgia for other experiences.

I don't think we're in the end - but more of the aftermath. I mean back in the bbS heyday, the activity and userspace of bbSes was HUGE; weaving all over America and other countries the same... it was the 'pre-internet' - it'll never be that again, but I'm hoping that WE can keep bbSes at the current level for the unforeseeable future.

I know that for as long as I have internet and a homelab, I'll be running 2o - thats the commitment that I'm giving to the 'bbS world'... I think with US, THIS is the new 'bbSphere'. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

I feel like it's hard to know when (or if) BBSes will disappear. I've been running my current BBS more than twice as long as I ran my original BBS in the 90s. It's a hobby I enjoy, and I plan to keep running it and using it as long as there is some BBS activity. I've also developed
some scripts/mods for Synchronet, and I enjoy working on those.

Same as what I've posted - thats my commitment for the unforeseeable future; I'll host 2o as long as I'm... hosting anything.

After, I fully intend to put the archive/backup/data somewhere such are archive.org. I'm sure in decades time the size won't be a factor.

I think theres a lot of us that are committed, and want to, continue running these systems - especially with how easy it is to emulate and host almost anywhere... its up to us. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 10 Oct 2022 at 03:00p, Bex pondered and said...

I could be wrong, because I was out of the BBS scene since I shut down my last board in the late-90s, so I have no actual data on this, but it
seems like there was a major lull around 2008-2016 or so, and then
things started to make a comeback about then. Then another lull around, and then the pandemic.

I do still think that we are in the end BBS times, once this group of nostalgia-seeking Gen Xers (I'm proudly in that group) moves on, there isn't going to be anyone who wants to bring it back. The nostalgia window is a moving window, driven mostly by people in their 40s and 50s. As they age out, the new group is nostalgia for other experiences.

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max
before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

I'm a Gen X boy. While I don't disagree with the assessment of who is returning to the scene I'd argue there are some younger folks also testing the waters / curious to know what this medium etc. is like.

My hope is that this continues and your guesstimate of 5 years max is far to low. :)

Heck, I plan on sticking around for as long as body and fingers to type with let me :)

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: paulie420 to Bex on Wed Oct 12 2022 05:44 pm

I don't think we're in the end - but more of the aftermath. I mean back in the bbS heyday, the activity and userspace of bbSes was HUGE; weaving all over America and other countries the same... it was the 'pre-internet' - it'll never be that again, but I'm hoping that WE can keep bbSes at the current level for the unforeseeable future.

I had heard there's still a big BBS (mainly underground) scene in China due to their information censorship. I've been curious to see if I can try using some of them, but I imagine most of them are probably in Chinese, which I don't read..

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

I don't think we're in the end - but more of the aftermath. I mean ba the bbS heyday, the activity and userspace of bbSes was HUGE..

I had heard there's still a big BBS (mainly underground) scene in China due to their information censorship. I've been curious to see if I can try using some of them, but I imagine most of them are probably in Chinese, which I don't read..

Yea, so - I also know the Taiwanese PTT/PTT2(etc) bbSes are still r0cking strong. They used to have hundreds of thousands of users, even dwarfing what was our bbS 'normal' back in the heyday...

Concerning those two countries' bbS communities, I wonder what it would take to login and see their bbSes... w/ PTT, I think you'd need a Taiwanese font (and a translator program). Previously I tried to make a user account, by using Google Picture Translate, but never got a user account fully created..

PTT is supposed to have great ANSI (or textmode anyway) art, and I bet the 'underground' Chinese bbSes would be a cool community to be able to get into... I suppose you'd really need to go at in on a different angle, and get a local bbS user to help. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Thu Oct 13 2022 06:28 pm

Yea, so - I also know the Taiwanese PTT/PTT2(etc) bbSes are still r0cking strong. They used to have hundreds of thousands of users, even dwarfing what was our bbS 'normal' back in the heyday...

take to login and see their bbSes... w/ PTT, I think you'd need a

get a local bbS user to help. :P

You keep saying bbS .. Why bbS and not BBS? Normally it's all capitalized..

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

In the San Francisco Bay area, we had MicroTimes and Computer Current two free magazines you'd find at local newsracks. They had free BBS

The computer magazine in the Portland area was similar. It was called Computer Bits, and was found at many local newsracks. I'd often get one

What's a "local newsrack"? You mean like they have in New York City? I lived 80 miles from the city. We had newspaper delivery and magazines could be bought at the Grocery Store. Once computer stores popped up you could find pc mag and others. By that time the BBS had died and the Internet was the olace to be. BBS usage was strickly for pirating.

... Press SPACEBAR once to abort, or twice to save changes

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/04/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: ACiD Underworld // acidunderworld.com:31337 (21:1/188)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: HusTler to Nightfox on Sun Nov 27 2022 08:13 am

In the San Francisco Bay area, we had MicroTimes and Computer
Current two free magazines you'd find at local newsracks. They
had free BBS

The computer magazine in the Portland area was similar. It was
called Computer Bits, and was found at many local newsracks. I'd
often get one

What's a "local newsrack"? You mean like they have in New York City? I

I was referring to the stacks of newspapers and magazines you could typically find for sale (or sometimes for free) at convenience stores, grocery stores, etc..

I don't know what New York City specifically has.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Hello Warpslide!

** On Sunday 27.11.22 - 09:02, Warpslide wrote to Ogg:

I had an ad up on Kijiji (kind of like a Canadian Craigslist) for my board once-upon-a-time. I got at least one new user out of it, it also helps
you reach people in your own area.

How's your latest attempt with the postings in mastodon working
out?


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

*** Quoting Ogg from a message to Warpslide ***

How's your latest attempt with the postings in mastodon working
out?

Got two new users who each called once and then not again (yet?), both reference Mastodon in the "Where did you hear about us?" field.

I also have a Kijiji ad up that hasn't yielded any new calls this time
around.


Jay

... No one hates a job well done!

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
* Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)

Hello Bex!

** On Saturday 19.11.22 - 20:25, Bex wrote to Ogg:

Ogg said to Bex: <=-

That'a ALMOST a really good analogy. These people will still want to
spend their dollars with modern PayPass, ApplePay, GooglePay. Or use
the devices of THEIR choice to take
pictures, pay, research, etc.

Ummm... you kinda lost me there. Can you un-confuse me?

I'll try. You mentioned that "people are driving along.." well,
they are probably driving in the modern cars of their
preference (eg. analogous to smartphones). They are not driving
with old pcs from the 80's. From those same devices, they take
pictures and pay for their experiences.

My point is that the roadside attractions (BBSes) need to adapt
to what people are driving and using.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

HusTler wrote to Nightfox <=-

What's a "local newsrack"? You mean like they have in New York City?

Sidewalk boxes where you can pick up one of the free or paid newspapers. They're waning in popularity along with print media.




... Slow preparation, fast execution
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

I know that for as long as I have internet and a homelab, I'll be running 2o - thats the commitment that I'm giving to the 'bbS world'. I think with US, THIS is the new 'bbSphere'. :P

I think momentum is a big part of continuing to run a BBS. If mine
crashed hard and took some effort to get back up it might give me
pause. With a homelab as a hobby and work tool the BBS gets a free ride and doesn't require a lot on its own for upkeep.

I almost feel like I'm cheating, but 2o22 makes it easy. 2o runs on a ProxMox server - and a separate PBS backup system makes it so even with a full failure I can just jump back to a working system with ease. YES, if I lost everything like one might back in the day I'd really have to think about putting all that effort back in - but I can handle a ProxMox backup. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

paulie420 wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I almost feel like I'm cheating, but 2o22 makes it easy. 2o runs on a ProxMox server - and a separate PBS backup system makes it so even with
a full failure I can just jump back to a working system with ease. YES,
if I lost everything like one might back in the day I'd really have to think about putting all that effort back in - but I can handle a
ProxMox backup.

So true. My first experiences with virtualization was running VMWare Workstation, and being able to take a VM snapshot before upgrades and on a weekly basis made things easier.

I haven't tried PBS, but I'm backing up using the built-in Proxmox backup
tool to an external drive, as well as dumping the BBS directory to an
external on a regular basis.




... Happy, happy. Joy, joy.
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Ogg said to Bex: <=-

That'a ALMOST a really good analogy. These people will still want to
spend their dollars with modern PayPass, ApplePay, GooglePay. Or use
the devices of THEIR choice to take
pictures, pay, research, etc.

Ummm... you kinda lost me there. Can you un-confuse me?

-*- Bex <3
Mushu: Stand watch, Mushu, while I blow our secret with my stupid girly habits. Pfft! Hygiene.

* Q-Blue 2.4 *
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since
1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been?

First of all, welcome back to the BBS world!

Well, actually, I got no idea about how the BBSes worked in the early 90s as I'm relatively new into this, I discovered BBSes at the start of this year and I'm still browsing through these to find old and new relics.

I actually think there are some active ones with a nice community and some active local boards aswell (actually, local boards are an advantage to not overlook) and, despite the fact that actually I wish there's a bit more people interacting, I like it more here than on a modern social media, where it seems like the algorithm want you to see only drama and gossip rather than new art or whatever you wish to see.

Plus, the fact that BBSes doesn't require new technology makes it possible to even use old computers such as the AMIGA 500 to call the boards and interact!

Anyway, I know there are lots of returning old users, but there's also hope since I'm not one of them, I just found out the boards and I'm enjoying them!

... Jenkinson's Law: It won't work.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since
1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been?

First of all, welcome back to the BBS world!

Well, actually, I got no idea about how the BBSes worked in the early
90s as I'm relatively new into this, I discovered BBSes at the start of this year and I'm still browsing through these to find old and new
relics.

I actually think there are some active ones with a nice community and
some active local boards aswell (actually, local boards are an advantage to not overlook) and, despite the fact that actually I wish there's a
bit more people interacting, I like it more here than on a modern social media, where it seems like the algorithm want you to see only drama and gossip rather than new art or whatever you wish to see.

Plus, the fact that BBSes doesn't require new technology makes it
possible to even use old computers such as the AMIGA 500 to call the boards and interact!

Anyway, I know there are lots of returning old users, but there's also hope since I'm not one of them, I just found out the boards and I'm enjoying them!

... Jenkinson's Law: It won't work.

Using BBS's has never been better. No tying up the phone line. Fast, FAST speeds. Being able to multitask while you BBS (I generally don't), fast transfer speeds, being able to access any BBS in the world without running up a high phone bill.
Just a shame that the quantity of users and boards isn't what it used to be.

I've used BBS's more so in the last few years, far more, than "back in the day".

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Hello boraxman!

** On Friday 25.11.22 - 21:22, boraxman wrote to SoDa7:

Using BBS's has never been better. No tying up the phone
line. Fast, FAST speeds. Being able to multitask while
you BBS (I generally don't), fast transfer speeds, being
able to access any BBS in the world without running up a
high phone bill. Just a shame that the quantity of users
and boards isn't what it used to be.

Sysops don't think outside the box, literally.

Back in the day.. we had Boardwatch magazine that did the work
for bbs promotion.

Advertising within the medium that you want to attract people
too (eg. BBS AD echos) is not going to reach people outside the
realm.

Telnet BBS Guide is a fine tool, but it does nothing to
convince people WHY they ought to try a BBS.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

BY: Ogg(21:4/106.21)


|11O|09> |10Telnet BBS Guide is a fine tool, but it does nothing to |07 |11O|09> |10convince people WHY they ought to try a BBS.|07
Articles on tumblr or substack might help.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3608
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: boraxman to SoDa7 on Fri Nov 25 2022 09:22 pm

Using BBS's has never been better. No tying up the phone line. Fast, FAST speeds. Being able to multitask while you BBS (I generally don't), fast transfer speeds, being able to access any BBS in the world without running up a high phone bill. Just a shame that the quantity of users and boards isn't what it used to be.

What you're describing is more like broadband internet which came after BBSes.. One reason why BBSes generally have tended to use a text-based (ANSI) interface is due to the fact that they were typically dialup systems.

I agree it's nice to use BBSes these days though. And being able to connect to any BBS in the world is good - though in the dialup days, I think one cool thing about BBSes is that since they tended to be local, pretty much all the users were in the same area, so there was a sense of local community there. Some BBSes had meetups too, but that's not easy if most of the users are spread out across the world.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: BBS Population
By: Ogg to boraxman on Fri Nov 25 2022 07:45 pm

Sysops don't think outside the box, literally.

Back in the day.. we had Boardwatch magazine that did the work
for bbs promotion.

Wasn't Boardwatch a national magazine though? I don't remember how BBS listings were organized in it though.. There was a local computer magazine in my area that had BBS listings in the back, and I often learned about local BBSes from there. There was also a local BBS list as a text file that was shared among local BBSes in my area.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Nightfox wrote to Ogg <=-

Wasn't Boardwatch a national magazine though? I don't remember how BBS listings were organized in it though.. There was a local computer magazine in my area that had BBS listings in the back, and I often

In the San Francisco Bay area, we had MicroTimes and Computer Currents, two free magazines you'd find at local newsracks. They had free BBS listings, as long as you renewed them every couple of weeks.

They were also handy for the white-box computer store ads - there was fierce competition for PC sales back then.


... Cluster analysis
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sat Nov 26 2022 08:05 am

In the San Francisco Bay area, we had MicroTimes and Computer Currents, two free magazines you'd find at local newsracks. They had free BBS listings, as long as you renewed them every couple of weeks.

They were also handy for the white-box computer store ads - there was fierce competition for PC sales back then.

The computer magazine in the Portland area was similar. It was called Computer Bits, and was found at many local newsracks. I'd often get one from a convenience store or grocery store if they had one.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Using BBS's has never been better. No tying up the phone
line. Fast, FAST speeds. Being able to multitask while
you BBS (I generally don't), fast transfer speeds, being
able to access any BBS in the world without running up a
high phone bill. Just a shame that the quantity of users
and boards isn't what it used to be.

Sysops don't think outside the box, literally.

Back in the day.. we had Boardwatch magazine that did the work
for bbs promotion.

Advertising within the medium that you want to attract people
too (eg. BBS AD echos) is not going to reach people outside the
realm.

Telnet BBS Guide is a fine tool, but it does nothing to
convince people WHY they ought to try a BBS.

Good point. I can't remember how I found that BBS's were still alive. I think I was deliberately looking to see if any were still accessible just purely out of interest, and discovered that they were! They were on the Internet over Telnet.

But I haven't seen them mentioned outside of the boxes you speak of. There is an advantage, no tracking, no crappy ads, no political censorship, a fast simple interface.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Using BBS's has never been better. No tying up the phone line. Fast, speeds. Being able to multitask while you BBS (I generally don't), fa transfer speeds, being able to access any BBS in the world without ru up a high phone bill. Just a shame that the quantity of users and boa isn't what it used to be.

What you're describing is more like broadband internet which came after BBSes.. One reason why BBSes generally have tended to use a text-based (ANSI) interface is due to the fact that they were typically dialup systems.

Well, I would say the interface is an integral part of the experience. Otherwise, it is just a web forum, or a web site, or Usenet. I do recall using once or two BBS's with images but it seemed just like a webpage.

I agree it's nice to use BBSes these days though. And being able to connect to any BBS in the world is good - though in the dialup days, I think one cool thing about BBSes is that since they tended to be local, pretty much all the users were in the same area, so there was a sense of local community there. Some BBSes had meetups too, but that's not easy
if most of the users are spread out across the world.

Nightfox

I do tend to only call a few BBS's now, and those are "local". Though the one I'm on now is in NZ. Melbourne BBS's seem very very empty, which is odd because FSXNet seems to have a few Melbournians here. One I use is Minds Eye.

There probably are only enough BBS users in Melbourne, Victoria to support maybe one board. It would be fantastic to bring back that locality.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

*** Quoting Ogg from a message to boraxman ***

Back in the day.. we had Boardwatch magazine that did the work for
bbs promotion.

Advertising within the medium that you want to attract people too
(eg. BBS AD echos) is not going to reach people outside the realm.

I had an ad up on Kijiji (kind of like a Canadian Craigslist) for my board once-upon-a-time. I got at least one new user out of it, it also helps you reach people in your own area.


Jay

... What do you call an apology written in dots and dashes? Re-Morse code

--- Telegard v3.09.g2-sp4/mL
* Origin: Northern Realms | tg.nrbbs.net | 289-424-5180 (21:3/110.1)

Hello Warpslide!

Advertising within the medium that you want to attract people too
(eg. BBS AD echos) is not going to reach people outside the realm.

I had an ad up on Kijiji (kind of like a Canadian Craigslist) for my board once-upon-a-time. I got at least one new user out of it, it also helps
you reach people in your own area.

I remember you mentioning that. Perhaps people could also
include a simple block of text in their email signatures when
using email day to day. Never know who might like to check it
out.

Even placing a simple postcard-size ad on a physical bulletin
board in one's own area (laundromat, grocery store, post
office, dental office, etc) could be a good outreach.

But one thing is for certain, if one just goes online with a
BBS, there is no surefire way that the *newly arrived online*
status will reach the myriad of laptop/desktop users (not to
mention perhaps the even greater myriad of smartphone users) if
there is no ad or announcement campaign. Just relying in
ipingthereforeiam or telnetbbs guides is not going to cut it.


--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

Nightfox wrote to Ogg <=-

Wasn't Boardwatch a national magazine though? I don't remember how BBS listings were organized in it though.

Heading over to archive.org and looking at the March 1994 copy of Boardwatch.

There was a section that was like a Classified Ad section and it looks like it was ordered by phone number. This section was probably a "pay" section, and most sysops probably didn't want to do that.

Then there was the National List of BBSs. That looks to be ordered alphabetically (which really makes no sense to me). Each BBS gets a single line, as opposed to a paragraph in the "Classified Ads" area.

There was a local computer
magazine in my area that had BBS listings in the back, and I often
learned about local BBSes from there.

Lucky you. I never lived in a area that could support a local computer magazine (except as part of a club).

There was also a local BBS list
as a text file that was shared among local BBSes in my area.

In my area, there was a guy who would compile a list of all BBSs in the area code. Periodically (like maybe 2-3 times per year), he'd call all of them. Of course, BBSs would advertize other BBSs and he'd get more systems for his list.
The end result was that he would publish out his list and you often found new BBSs to call.


... Plastic explosives will be appropriate later in the week.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Hello All,

So I am just curious. I have been back into BBSing for a few months now. Its a blast! I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more users, etc..". So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been? Did it pick up a couple years back with everyone being stuck in their homes for Covid? (Seems a lot of people got back into hobbies they did not have time for during this time period) Has it picked up a little lately? I noticed quite a few users like myself that were into BBSing years ago coming back to it within the last few years. On the telnet BBS guide, is that an accurate count of about how many BBS's are left? I know some people run multiple BBS with different software a lot of the times, it seems, probably because its fun setting them up and learning new softwares is probably a fun challange. Some people said it was really quiet during the summer months and picks up during the winter a little more?

Sorry about the long message, I hope everyone has a good day, its nice to get on here and away from the stresses of every day life and just Relax.

|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

... I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: WarpeD SocieTy (21:4/184)

I closed my BBS in 2005 because I got ADSL. Well, basically now I'm reading echo conferences through Outlook. Did BBS die? Yes, who knows? I think they have always been.

<Irish_Monk>

Hello All,

So I am just curious. I have been back into BBSing for a few months now.
Its a blast! I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more
users, etc..". So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been? Did it pick up a couple years back with everyone being stuck in their homes for Covid? (Seems a lot of people got back into hobbies they did not have time for during this time period) Has it picked up a little lately? I noticed quite a few users like myself that were into BBSing years ago coming back
to it within the last few years. On the telnet BBS guide, is that an accurate count of about how many BBS's are left? I know some people run multiple BBS with different software a lot of the times, it seems,
probably because its fun setting them up and learning new softwares is probably a fun challange. Some people said it was really quiet during the summer months and picks up during the winter a little more?

Sorry about the long message, I hope everyone has a good day, its nice to get on here and away from the stresses of every day life and just Relax.

|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

.. I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: WarpeD SocieTy (21:4/184)

--- Mystic BBS/NNTP v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: thE qUAntUm wOrmhOlE, rAmsgAtE, uK. bbs.erb.pw (21:1/158)

I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more users, etc..". Ir> So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, how has Ir> the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been?

Hell no - l00k around; we got active FTNs, plenty of rad/active bbSes, modders, groups, ANSI - we've got a bbSphere!

Did it pick up a couple years back with everyone being stuck in their Ir> homes for Covid?

I think so - also, it seems to pickup every Christmas season - and drop off in the summer. I see waves; sometimes you see in influx of users - some YouTube video by a popular creator, or a product - a WiFi Modem for a large retro community, etc... waves.

On the telnet BBS guide, is that an accurate count of about how many Ir> BBS's are left?

I think its the biggest indicator of how many people 'want' to run bbSes - but so many stock ones that its not a 'guide'. (I love the telnet BBS guide, btw!) But you gotta dig in and kinda FIND the awesome, active bbSes that are up your alley.

Long story short; I have many friends from the current bbS community. It ain't dead. :P



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: roman to All on Sun Oct 02 2022 03:02 pm

I closed my BBS in 2005 because I got ADSL. Well, basically now I'm reading echo conferences through Outlook. Did BBS die? Yes, who knows? I think they have always been.

Have always been what?

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: BBS Population
By: Irish_Monk to All on Sun Oct 02 2022 09:19 am

So I am just curious. I have been back into BBSing for a few months now. Its a blast! I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more users, etc..". So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been? Did it pick up a couple years back with everyone being stuck in their homes for Covid? (Seems a lot of people got back into hobbies they did not have time

I stopped running my original 90s BBS in 2000 and started up again in 2007 when I realized some people still run and use BBSes. But even since 2007, it seems the BBS community is not nearly what it used to be at its height in the 90s. Lately, I mostly read & post on a couple message networks and I see some of the same names in both places. My current BBS does get some callers, but I remember getting more callers on my local dialup BBS in the 90s.

Also, one sign of the low popularity of BBSes is when I try to search for BBS-related things on Google, sometimes relevant search results don't appear on the first page unless I use fairly specific terms related to BBSes. For example, if you just search for BBS on Google, the first search result (right now anyway) is BBS Wheels (for cars).

Nightfox
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I see a lot of chatting about "making more popular, more users, etc..

So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, ho

the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its been?

Hell no - l00k around; we got active FTNs, plenty of rad/active bbSes, modders, groups, ANSI - we've got a bbSphere!

I may have wrote that question wrong a little, but yeah, Im having a blast meeting people and messing around with the BBS stuff. It seems to me that theres quite a bit going on. I think the telnet BBS guide shows over thousand BBS's active.

off in the summer. I see waves; sometimes you see in influx of users - some YouTube video by a popular creator, or a product - a WiFi Modem for
a large retro community, etc... waves.

I think that is how I got back into it. I think I came accross a BBS video on youtube and it sparked my interest again.

Long story short; I have many friends from the current bbS community. It ain't dead. :P

Thats awesome and really good to hear!! I am amazed how friendly people are here and so willing to help out. Being out of it for more than 25 years I definitely had needed help and tons of people have done that. I really appreciate it!!

|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

... Electricity is really just organized lightning.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: WarpeD SocieTy (21:4/184)

I stopped running my original 90s BBS in 2000 and started up again in
2007 when I realized some people still run and use BBSes. But even
since 2007, it seems the BBS community is not nearly what it used to be
at its height in the 90s. Lately, I mostly read & post on a couple message networks and I see some of the same names in both places. My current BBS does get some callers, but I remember getting more callers
on my local dialup BBS in the 90s.

Yeah I dont think we will ever see interest in BBSing like we did in the 90's. But its still a lot of fun!! and a lot of really cool people on here for sure.

Also, one sign of the low popularity of BBSes is when I try to search for BBS-related things on Google, sometimes relevant search results don't appear on the first page unless I use fairly specific terms related to BBSes. For example, if you just search for BBS on Google, the first search result (right now anyway) is BBS Wheels (for cars).

Yeah I have noticed that too. Fortunately a lot of the users on here end up helping me out also. Dont really find that in other places too much... at least not for free...

|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: WarpeD SocieTy (21:4/184)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: Irish_Monk to Nightfox on Sun Oct 02 2022 04:48 pm

Yeah I dont think we will ever see interest in BBSing like we did in the 90's. But its still a lot of fun!! and a lot of really cool people on here for sure.

It is fun. I think it's cool that I can still run a BBS on a PC at home. I also have Plex Media Server and a couple other things installed on my BBS PC. The BBS is probably the reason I have it turned on all the time (for BBS users & events), but that also makes it easy for me to access my Plex media any time. Plex can also be used as a DVR to record broadcast TV content, so it helps to keep it turned on for that too (though I don't DVR much these days)..

Nightfox
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Thats awesome and really good to hear!! I am amazed how friendly people are here and so willing to help out. Being out of it for more than 25 years I definitely had needed help and tons of people have done that. I really appreciate it!!

Its certainly not the bbS-heyday, by any means, but its still awesome technology. While I'm amazed at how fair 'connectivity' and networks have come, I still wonder what solutions we'd of found if we tried keeping things more self-hosted and/or federated as opposed to the current setup.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Irish_Monk wrote to All <=-

more users, etc..". So my question is, since I havnt been around BBS's since 1995, how has the BBS world been? Is this the most "dead" its
been? Did it pick up a couple years back with everyone being stuck in their homes for Covid? (Seems a lot of people got back into hobbies
they did not have time for during this time period)

As best as I can tell, it did pick up some after COVID hit. There have
also been a few people here and there who have said they are back because
they are burned out on modern social media and/or don't trust it.

Seems like some of the folks that came back have already gone on, but some others have stuck around.


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
--- MultiMail/DOS
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

As best as I can tell, it did pick up some after COVID hit. There have also been a few people here and there who have said they are back because they are burned out on modern social media and/or don't trust it.

Yeah, thats a huge reason I came back also. I just dont like modern day social media. Its way too commercialized. Of course, this is just me, but I think its weird how people have to have friends on facebook they really dont know anymore(from like elementary school, etc..). And then sorta invite them in, to see all your family pics, updates of exactly what you are doing. But, Im also the kind of guy who likes a small good quality friend circle and not quantinty. Everyone is different tho!!

|10I|02rish_|10M|02onk

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: WarpeD SocieTy (21:4/184)

get a local bbS user to help. :P

You keep saying bbS .. Why bbS and not BBS? Normally it's all capitalized..

I duno; I still love the stupid letters from the 9os; 2o fOr beeRS, bbSphere, bbS, etc. dERP.



|07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
|08.........

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Gamgee wrote to Bex <=-

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years
max before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

That's what was being said about FidoNet back around 1998-ish...

And, IIRC, BBSing in general. Yet, here we are. :)




... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
--- MultiMail/DOS
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Blue White wrote to Gamgee <=-

Gamgee wrote to Bex <=-

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years
max before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

That's what was being said about FidoNet back around 1998-ish...

And, IIRC, BBSing in general. Yet, here we are. :)

Indeed! ...and with no intention on going anywhere, for much longer
than 5 years from now! ;-)



... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Bex wrote to paulie420 <=-

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max
before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

Every once in a while we get an influx of kidz who read about retro networks and chime in, but I don't think any of them have hung around.


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

paulie420 wrote to Bex <=-

I know that for as long as I have internet and a homelab, I'll be
running 2o - thats the commitment that I'm giving to the 'bbS world'...
I think with US, THIS is the new 'bbSphere'. :P

I think momentum is a big part of continuing to run a BBS. If mine crashed hard and took some effort to get back up it might give me pause. With a homelab as a hobby and work tool the BBS gets a free ride and doesn't
require a lot on its own for upkeep.


... Abandon desire
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Nightfox wrote to paulie420 <=-

I had heard there's still a big BBS (mainly underground) scene in China due to their information censorship. I've been curious to see if I can try using some of them, but I imagine most of them are probably in Chinese, which I don't read..

China doesn't have a lot of copper lines, so analog modems would have a problem. BBS networks with analog modems passing data posed a monitoring challenge that made them ideal for information passing. With a population
with cell phones I'm not sure how you'd do it.

BBSing is notoriously insecure, with passwords and data sent in cleartext by default. There's some options to run bink with TLS and others have created mesh VPNs between nodes, but there's a long way to make it easy.


... Don't avoid what is easy
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Oct 23 2022 08:48 am

I had heard there's still a big BBS (mainly underground) scene in
China due to their information censorship. I've been curious to see
if I can try using some of them, but I imagine most of them are
probably in Chinese, which I don't read..

China doesn't have a lot of copper lines, so analog modems would have a problem. BBS networks with analog modems passing data posed a monitoring challenge that made them ideal for information passing. With a population with cell phones I'm not sure how you'd do it.

BBSing is notoriously insecure, with passwords and data sent in cleartext by default. There's some options to run bink with TLS and others have created mesh VPNs between nodes, but there's a long way to make it easy.

I imagined their BBSes would be over the internet, like most of ours now, rather than using dialup over copper lines. I'd heard there's still a fairly big BBS scene there.. I don't know if people use SSH or something if they're concerned about security, or maybe their government just doesn't monitor it much so they don't worry about it. I don't know..

Nightfox
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* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: Re: BBS Population
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Oct 23 2022 08:48 am

Nightfox wrote to paulie420 <=-

I had heard there's still a big BBS (mainly underground) scene in China due to their information censorship. I've been curious to see if I can try using some of them, but I imagine most of them are probably in Chinese, which I don't read..

China doesn't have a lot of copper lines, so analog modems would have a problem. BBS networks with analog modems passing data posed a monitoring challenge that made them ideal for information passing. With a population with cell phones I'm not sure how you'd do it.

BBSing is notoriously insecure, with passwords and data sent in cleartext by default. There's some options to run bink with TLS and others have created mesh VPNs between nodes, but there's a long way to make it easy.

... Don't avoid what is easy
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

You'd be surprised. Some censors don't bother censoring primitive protocols because it
is so much work. For example, I have heard Gopher is not controlled in Iran. It is
just not worth their effort.

Obviously, such safety only lasts until something turns popular.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

This BBS renaissance is great, but it probably only has 5 years max before all but the most devoted move on to something else.

Every once in a while we get an influx of kidz who read about retro networks and chime in, but I don't think any of them have hung around.

I was only in the BBS scene back in the 90's for 5 years, and that is being generous. So even if this all fizzes out, I would have used BBS's more frequently, and for longer, than back "in the day".

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)