There are several automotive sources that are citing those touch pane as driver distractions/safety concerns. There was an article not too long ago that praised one of the automakers for sticking with mostly buttons in their lineup.

If I have to use a touchscreen to mess with the climate control....lol.
I hope more OEMs start going back to hardware buttons for the critical things.

The Dodge RAM (And family) does it pretty nicely... theres a huge 13" screen in portrait mode; with lots of menus that you can link to any 'button' you choose, even deep in the system... but there are 8 physical buttons; 4 on either side of the screen. These are most of the things you'd want in physical buttons...

I'd love to see the physical buttons get LCD screens that would allow the customer to set them to any function they want; but I don't find myself wishing for physical buttons... they're trying.



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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: paulie420 to esc on Sat May 27 2023 03:27 pm

I'd love to see the physical buttons get LCD screens that would allow the customer to set them to any function they want; but I don't find myself wishing for physical buttons... they're trying.

I don't really like having a big LCD screen in a car either. I've seen Teslas and other cars that have a big LCD screen in the middle instead of the usual stereo and physical buttons, and aside from the practical issues with virtual buttons, I just think a big LCD screen looks odd.

I do think an LCD/virtual instrument display is cool though. In the newer Mazdas, the center round instrument dial is an LCD screen, which shows your car speed either as an analog dial or numeric digits along with a display showing the car's sensors that show when it detects a car coming up alongside you. The display can also be configured to show distance in miles or kilometers.

The other gauges (tachometer, temperature, etc.) in the Mazdas are physical gauges, but I've seen other car brands (such as Volkswagens) use a full digital/virtual instrument cluster, where it might show something like a speedometer along with a GPS map display, which is cool.

Nightfox
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I don't really like having a big LCD screen in a car either. I've seen Teslas and other cars that have a big LCD screen in the middle instead
of the usual stereo and physical buttons, and aside from the practical issues with virtual buttons, I just think a big LCD screen looks odd.

I do think an LCD/virtual instrument display is cool though. In the
newer Mazdas, the center round instrument dial is an LCD screen, which shows your car speed either as an analog dial or numeric digits along
with a display showing the car's sensors that show when it detects a car coming up alongside you. The display can also be configured to show distance in miles or kilometers.

I actually kinda like the huge screen - implementation is everything, tho; for example on the Dodgle platform with those premium large screens - I can set it up so that CarPlay takes up 1/2 of the screen, which basically makes it like a normal sized screen. The other 1/2 can be set by the user, with different templates depending on how you wanna split that 1/2 of the screen - then, Dodge lets you design the 'buttons' or featuresets that take up the bottom 1/2.

I have a few different 'pages' setup - all w/ CarPlay on the top 1/2, and differing 'soft button' setups on the lower 1/2. It makes it really nice - I swipe for handling the audio/video, swipe for comfort, swipe for driving stats/stuff - if the vendor does a good job w/ the tech I think the bigger real estate wins out every time - unless they make you simply use what they design; no one knows me better than me.



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I'd love to see the physical buttons get LCD screens that would allow
customer to set them to any function they want; but I don't find mysel
wishing for physical buttons... they're trying.

Are you referring to something like they did years ago with computer keyboards? You could "program" each key singularly or as a whole (the entire keyboard made an image). Of course, it may have been a concept, but it was definitely neat at the time. (had to try searching, but unable to locate - so it must have been a concept :( .. )

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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: SirRonmit to Nightfox on Sun May 28 2023 08:29 am

I'd love to see the physical buttons get LCD screens that would

Are you referring to something like they did years ago with computer

You're replying to the wrong person.. I believe paulie420 wrote what you quoted. It looks like you're replying to a message I wrote where I quoted him, then you also quoted his paragraph, and your reply is addressed to me..

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If I have to use a touchscreen to mess with the climate control....lo I hope more OEMs start going back to hardware buttons for the critica things.

The Dodge RAM (And family) does it pretty nicely... theres a huge 13" screen in portrait mode; with lots of menus that you can link to any 'button' you choose, even deep in the system... but there are 8 physical buttons; 4 on either side of the screen. These are most of the things you'd want in physical buttons...

Yep, I'm with you (both).

I only use LCD screen for multimedia and maps. AC, driving modes, functions are all still physical buttons either near the screen or on the steering wheel. And they should stay there!

I remember how confused I was once, in Tesla, seeing that big screen over there.. one couldn't stay focused on driving...

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You're replying to the wrong person.. I believe paulie420 wrote what you

Yeah, sorry, I couldn't locate the original and I was having some weird issues as well -- when I went to hit reply, it gave me "Access Denied" in the TO: field.

I'm shocked it went out at all!! :)

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I remember how confused I was once, in Tesla, seeing that big screen over there.. one couldn't stay focused on driving...

Yea - I do HATE the Tesla style where they DON'T give you physical buttons... but so long as theres at least the main ones, I like the big screen real estate. :P



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On 30 May 2023, paulie420 said the following...

Yea - I do HATE the Tesla style where they DON'T give you physical buttons... but so long as theres at least the main ones, I like the big screen real estate. :P

The 2017 Civic Hatchback we had did away with a lot of the physical buttons & knobs. The one I just couldn't get used to was the radio volume, the system was so laggy that you'd be tapping away on the + or - buttons and waiting for it to respond.

Thankfully we traded that car in for a 2021 Civic Hatchback when the lease was up, in this model they went back to a volume knob. I wish they'd bring back physical buttons for some of the climate controls, a dedicated AC button would be nice.


Jay

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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: paulie420 to hollowone on Tue May 30 2023 06:59 pm

I remember how confused I was once, in Tesla, seeing that big screen
over there.. one couldn't stay focused on driving...

Yea - I do HATE the Tesla style where they DON'T give you physical buttons... but so long as theres at least the main ones, I like the big screen real estate. :P

Total lack of physical buttons is what I don't like as well. I suppose I don't really mind a screen if there are buttons for important things. But even for things like changing the radio volume or what's playing on the radio, it can be good to have physical buttons so I don't have to take my eyes off the road.

When I bought a new car recently, I was considering another Volkswagen, but I had seen a couple of their cars at an auto show recently, and one thing I didn't like is that they were using touch panels instead of buttons & switches for a lot of things. So, even things like the 'switch' to turn on a fan or headlights, etc. was a flat touch panel instead of a physical button/switch/knob.

Nightfox
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When I bought a new car recently, I was considering another Volkswagen, but I had seen a couple of their cars at an auto show recently, and one thing I didn't like is that they were using touch panels instead of buttons & switches for a lot of things. So, even things like the
'switch' to turn on a fan or headlights, etc. was a flat touch panel instead of a physical button/switch/knob.

Nightfox

I wonder if the lack of physical buttons was a part of a "cost cutting" issue.

ogg
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Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: ogg to Nightfox on Wed May 31 2023 11:01 am

When I bought a new car recently, I was considering another

I wonder if the lack of physical buttons was a part of a "cost cutting" issue.

Could be. I wonder how much a touch panel costs compared to a physical button.

Nightfox
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paulie420 wrote to hollowone <=-

Yea - I do HATE the Tesla style where they DON'T give you physical buttons... but so long as theres at least the main ones, I like the big screen real estate. :P

I've wanted to buy a new head-unit for my car for some time, but hate
the look of a big LCD without buttons. A brand called Seicane makes a
head unit for the Prius that mirrors the look of the OEM unit, with a
volume knob and buttons that mirror the original, but a much larger
screen. I hope they look a little less attractive to car stereo thieves.



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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: poindexter FORTRAN to paulie420 on Wed May 31 2023 06:45 am

I've wanted to buy a new head-unit for my car for some time, but hate
the look of a big LCD without buttons. A brand called Seicane makes a
head unit for the Prius that mirrors the look of the OEM unit, with a volume knob and buttons that mirror the original, but a much larger screen. I hope they look a little less attractive to car stereo thieves.

It seems a lot of car makers these days have abandoned the DIN standard for car stereos; it seems more cars these days have the stereo integrated so you can't easily replace it. It seems odd that they'd do that. I guess on the plus side, that means car streo theves can't easily steal the stereo either..

Nightfox
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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: poindexter FORTRAN to paulie420 on Wed May 31 2023 06:45 am

screen. I hope they look a little less attractive to car stereo thieves.

Years ago, I had a car that was broken into, and the thieves ripped off the face of the stereo in the car, when it wasn't even a detachable face - so I imagine the car stereo face they tore off was probably useless to them. And I naturally had to replace the stereo and the window in my car that they broke.

Nightfox
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I wonder if the lack of physical buttons was a part of a "cost cutting
issue.

Could be. I wonder how much a touch panel costs compared to a physical button.

You couldn't compare just one of each as the button would win every time.

I'm thinking over multiple cars and buttons, the cost savings would come in not having to run multiple wires, connectors, etc. Then the labor to install said devices. With a touch panel, once programmed, the panel would negate all of the extra installation labor. The wiring would be taken care of with the panel. Just having to install a couple(?) of connectors into the panel "should" be less labor intensive. All of this said however, I've not been a auto manufacturing plant in a long time, so what would I know! LOL

ogg
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I've wanted to buy a new head-unit for my car for some time, but hate
the look of a big LCD without buttons. A brand called Seicane makes a
head unit for the Prius that mirrors the look of the OEM unit, with a volume knob and buttons that mirror the original, but a much larger screen. I hope they look a little less attractive to car stereo thieves.

I agree that the aftermarket units are less physical-button friendly.

I like what the truck companies are doing in 2023; Ford, Dodge, Chevy - they all have really awesome 10"+ screens, w/ physical buttons...

Toyota has a VOLUME button at least, but the 4runners aren't as up-to-date IMO...

I drive many new model vehicles b/c I get a new one every couple months for a work vehicle - so I get to see a lot of the newer stuff...



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I wonder if the lack of physical buttons was a part of a "cost cuttin issue.

Could be. I wonder how much a touch panel costs compared to a physical button.

I think it's potentially attractive to manufacturers because they don't have to worry about individual buttons breaking, having to replace them, etc.

And they can change layouts and things like that quickly with a software upgrade; they aren't married to certain components and layouts forever.

However I still prefer hardware buttons in many cases :)

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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: esc to Nightfox on Wed May 31 2023 11:03 pm

Could be. I wonder how much a touch panel costs compared to a
physical button.

I think it's potentially attractive to manufacturers because they don't have to worry about individual buttons breaking, having to replace them, etc.

And they can change layouts and things like that quickly with a software upgrade; they aren't married to certain components and layouts forever.

I'm curious how they'd change the layout of some of these touch panels? In some cars I've seen lately, it's just a flat touch-sensitive area in a fixed place where a physical button/knob would be. For instance:

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Nissan-Ariya-1024x555.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/2s3m638k

https://shorturl.at/BDW59

https://tinyurl.com/yc8xhmbe

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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: paulie420 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 31 2023 06:34 pm

I drive many new model vehicles b/c I get a new one every couple months for a work vehicle - so I get to see a lot of the newer stuff...

I've been seeing commercials on TV recently for GMC's hands-free driving feature, where apparently you don't have to have your hands on the steering wheel. They say it even has an automatic lane change feature (so it could pass slow cars automatically, for instance). GMC's ad shows this for their trucks and SUVs (I don't recall seeing a regular car in the commercial). GMC's commercial shows drivers enabling hands-free driving and then doing Queen's "We Will Rock You" with their hands, which IMO looks a bit silly..

I've heard Ford has a similar feature. I still wonder how safe these automatic driving features are and how well they work.

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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: paulie420 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 31 2023 06:34 pm

Toyota has a VOLUME button at least, but the 4runners aren't as up-to-date IMO...

One of those volume knobs popped off on a co-worker's car (I think it as a Ford?) and it wasn't completely passive - the know was just transferring to the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought.
--
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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: Digital Man to paulie420 on Thu Jun 01 2023 04:16 pm

Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: paulie420 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed May 31 2023 06:34 pm

Toyota has a VOLUME button at least, but the 4runners aren't as up-to-date IMO...

One of those volume knobs popped off on a co-worker's car (I think it as a Ford?) and it wasn't completely passive - the know was just transferring to the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought.

Wow, I botched that edit. Let me try that again:

One of those volume knobs (attached to a big LCD screen) popped off a co-worker's car (I think it was a Ford?) and it was completely passive - the knob was just transferring the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought. :-)
--
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Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #20:
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One of those volume knobs popped off on a co-worker's car (I think it as
a Ford?) and it wasn't completely passive - the know was just
transferring to the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch
screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought.

Really? Thats interesting and BS at the same time!



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Nightfox wrote to esc <=-

I'm curious how they'd change the layout of some of these touch panels?
In some cars I've seen lately, it's just a flat touch-sensitive area
in a fixed place where a physical button/knob would be. For instance:

On a lot of the third-party head units, they're running Android. it's
just a home screen app you're looking at.




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Digital Man wrote to paulie420 <=-

One of those volume knobs popped off on a co-worker's car (I think it
as a Ford?) and it wasn't completely passive - the know was just transferring to the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch
screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought. --

Until you replace the knob, I suppose you could stick your pinky finger
in the hole and turn...



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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Digital Man on Fri Jun 02 2023 07:03 am

Digital Man wrote to paulie420 <=-

One of those volume knobs popped off on a co-worker's car (I think it as a Ford?) and it wasn't completely passive - the know was just transferring to the knob's rotation as finger swipes on the touch screen. Pretty clever solution, I thought. --

Until you replace the knob, I suppose you could stick your pinky finger
in the hole and turn...

That's the thing: there was no hole. You could just touch the screen (where the knob used to be) and rotate right or left and get the same effect.
--
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Re: Re: Physical buttons in vehicles
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jun 02 2023 07:02 am

I'm curious how they'd change the layout of some of these touch
panels? In some cars I've seen lately, it's just a flat
touch-sensitive area in a fixed place where a physical button/knob
would be. For instance:

On a lot of the third-party head units, they're running Android. it's
just a home screen app you're looking at.

It's not just the radio head unit, but in other places around the dashboard, as well as steering wheel controls for the radio, etc., they're using flat touch-sensitive surfaces in place of physical buttons & switches. For example:

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Nissan-Ariya-1024x555.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/2s3m638k

https://shorturl.at/BDW59

https://tinyurl.com/yc8xhmbe

Nightfox
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