I have the best memories of programming in BASIC on DOS 6.22 with Win
3.11. I remember having studied the whole language documentation that
came with the IDE, and had tried every single one of the examples
that were included there. I learned most of everything I know about algorithms and programming techinques through various BASIC projects.
I mostly came up with text-based games that I ("kindly") forced my
family to try out (long before internet was a thing, where I
live...). I don't know why, but I see people taking BASIC for a
unworthy substitute of a greater example of a language, as maybe C++
or Java. I understand there are things you can do with C++ you can't
do in BASIC, but still there's a lot you do can do... For instance, I remember having a lot of fun defining my own types and using them in
my own code in a few projects, sort of coming up with my own
"libraries"... That experience made it kinda easier to jump into OOP
and figure out how to use clases and objects... I know that last
argument could sound "awkward" to some, but it makes a lot of sense
to me... :D Anyway, what's anyones thoughts on this? Have you any
experience with BASIC? Was it also you first programming language??
Cheers!
Given the limited amount of memory available to older 8 bit home orientated micros, BASIC is an easy to learn and easy to understand language. It's a jumping point for people to understand the basics of programming, flow control, subroutines and functions to a limited
degree, filesystem i/o etc, that they can apply to other languages as
they learn them.
know why, but I see people taking BASIC for a unworthy substitute of a greater example of a language, as maybe C++ or Java. I understand there are things you can do with C++ you can't do in BASIC, but still there's a lot you do can do...
(...) BASIC stands for
Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code - "Beginner's" being
the key word.
Nightfox
Given the limited amount of memory available to older 8 bit home orientated micros, BASIC is an easy to learn and easy to
understand language. It's a jumping point for people to
understand the basics of programming, flow control, subroutines
and functions to a limited degree, filesystem i/o etc, that they
can apply to other languages as they learn them.
All languages are limited in one way or another...
What would you say is the least limited programming language?
Thank you for your kind reply, Nigel.
Malvinas.
Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas!
... Islas Malvinas, siempre Argentinas.
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Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code - "Beginner's" being
the key word.
thought BASIC not to be "basic", or "beginner's language", despite
the name or the fame it had (and seems it still has). If you try,
you'll find amazing things done in BASIC and in other "languages"
aswel, like "an .mp3 player in .bat batch file format"... crazy
(...) BASIC stands for
Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code - "Beginner's" being the
key word.
IIRC, when Borland bought it, they changed the "Basic" word to "Borland's"... and published a version accompanied by a compiler that could produce .exe files... I believe it was BASIC 4.7.
you'll find amazing things done in BASIC and in other "languages" aswel, like "an .mp3 player in .bat batch file format"... crazy things like that,
Anyway, what's anyones thoughts on this? Have you any experience with BASIC? Was it also you first programming language??
I tried to self teach C and Pascal, which didn't go well, then I was taught both again in university and suddenly things made sense! Pointers... structures... now I can do some real programming!
I hadn't done much since then, 20 years or so, then I got out some old computers from the garage and started trying to use BASIC. It drove me *mad*, so different. But thankfully both the computers used BBC BASIC, which has a very good reputation, lets you mess around with pointers and system calls easily and also has an in-built assembler. So mostly today
Structures and pointers are not *the only REAL* programming...
Original GW-BASIC had PEEK and POKE which were a 'weird' form of pointers...
to make a "Battleship game (not sure that's the right name for that game in english
we couldn't find a better suited language for that
than BASIC, which comes fully equipped with a fairly robust set of tools and instructions to control what goes on screen. This really speeds up creating "text mode turn-based or action games", and this was the exact case.
There's a lot to learn about coding technique and style from *any* language, actually, IMHO.
Anyway, what's anyones thoughts on this? Have you any experience with BASIC? Was it also you first programming language??
couldn't find a better suited language for that than BASIC, which comes fully equipped with a fairly robust set of tools and instructions to control what goes on screen. This really speeds up creating "text mode turn-based or action games", and this was the exact case. There's a lot
to learn about coding technique and style from *any* language, actually, IMHO.
Hi, Malvinas.
do. Early BASICs didn't do functions / procedures so stuff got messy
fast.
I agree that one can learn a lot from different languages,
but honestly this sort of use-case feels like exactly the sort
of thing that logo would be better at than BASIC.
I have to admit that, reply after reply to this post, I came to realize that when *I* say BASIC, I mean "the BASIC I grew up with and learned to use" back in the day, which was QBasic 1.1, which came pre-installed with the OS.
(...) I suppose QBasic *can* be used to
teach a lot more programming concepts, since those features are actually in the language!
BobW
I agree that one can learn a lot from different languages,
but honestly this sort of use-case feels like exactly the sort
of thing that logo would be better at than BASIC.
Yea, you're probably right, but the thing is, once you accomplish something like a Battleship game, you don't just get a Battleship game, you also know a lot of BASIC, which enables you to go on and try
anything else *on BASIC*... whereas LOGO wouldn't let you get too far
from "a Battleship game"....
(...) LOGO is actually a dialect of Lisp, and as such,Daaaamn.. I didn't know that...
it's incredibly powerful.
Unfortunately, few people _learned_ LOGO as a Lisp; most never
got beyond drawing a few basic shapes with the turtle. For
those who did, many could not wrap their heads around functional-
style programming.
Not true! LOGO is actually a dialect of Lisp, and as such,
it's incredibly powerful.
many could not wrap their heads around functional-
style programming.
Not true! LOGO is actually a dialect of Lisp, and as such,
it's incredibly powerful.
I did not know that. My primary school had the turtle things but through my entire school career I never saw one in use. Another fine waste of
tax money :)
many could not wrap their heads around functional-
style programming.
Eughhh... flashbacks to university... I am not surprised people struggle with it, I still remember the horrors of trying to master depth-first and breadth-first algorithms using only statements of truth. That was in
HUGS, a variant of Haskell - not sure if LISP is easier or harder than that?
The problem was that, while the ideas are powerful, you have to
be an expert at computers to successfully transfer them to
computers, and where I think the LOGO effort failed was in
getting _teachers_ well-enoughed versed in the technology _and_
the underly pedagogical theory to be able to use it successfully.
My wife taught in a primary school for a few years and I think the
general "background" level of technology comfort had got to the point where the least technology literate were easily showing very young children how to draw things with the "roamer" bot. I think that was a self-contained educational version of a Big Trak, though, rather than being connected to a computer. I imagine that would be thought of as arcane now, nearly 20 years on.
You seem to know a lot about this, I assume you must either be in or
have some strong association with computer science in academia?
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