On 02 Jan 2022, Dr. What said the following...

Utopian Galt wrote to All <=-

They were a barrel of problems. Even back in 1999/2005 the disks were not guranteed to live as well.

That's why I always update my vintage computer systems to use floppy emulators.

The drives will fail over time. The disks will fail as well. And 5.25" disks haven't been made since, when? The last batch of 5.25" disks that
I got had a failure rate of about 2 our of 5.

I got curious about the lifetime warranty on some floppy disk, brand new in a box.


I've tested a floppy disk 3.5 for several months to see if I could get the
disk to fail due to writing to it and overwriting the data. I used a linux system with an attached USB floppy drive, I wrote over a million times to the disk and read back what was written perfectly. Then after about 4 months
errors appeared. I stopped the program (bash script using dd), and started inspecting the log. I found I couldn't read the disk anymore... so I was
almost set to turn off the system, ... the IT crew was wondering why a pc
using an unsanctioned OS was on the network, and they wanted it shut off. I
had first verify the drive wasn't bad. ... well that was the case, the floppy was fine, but the drive had died.

I think if a 3.5 inch floppy is cared for, maybe they will last a lifetime.

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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: bbsing to Dr. What on Tue Aug 22 2023 12:59 am

I think if a 3.5 inch floppy is cared for, maybe they will last a lifetime.

I am not so sure.

I have had many lose their data just by sitting on the shelves for decades.

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I got curious about the lifetime warranty on some floppy disk, brand new in a box.

I've tested a floppy disk 3.5 for several months to see if I could get the disk to fail due to writing to it and overwriting the data. I used a linux system with an attached USB floppy drive, I wrote over a million times to the disk and read back what was written perfectly. Then after about
4 months errors appeared. I stopped the program (bash script using
dd), and started inspecting the log. I found I couldn't read the
disk anymore... so I was almost set to turn off the system,

There's a few things that spell the end for floppies... Mold for one, who'd
had thought that'd be a thing.. what are they feeding on? If you left the
mold long enough presumably it'd eat something out of the surface. But sans that mold either needs to be cleaned off the surface carefully or the drive head will eat it, become filthy and won't read.

The more likely problem, like HD's will be bit rot... eventually losing
random magnetic data.

Just for giggles, 8bit shack is sourcing floppys from somewhere. They're
still putting out A2 software.

Spec


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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: Arelor to bbsing on Tue Aug 22 2023 05:47 pm

I have had many lose their data just by sitting on the shelves for decades.

That's not being cared for then, that's sitting on the shelf.

candycane

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My own experience is that my old Atari 8-bit 5.25" disk fare much better
than the 1.2mb 5.25" PC floppies. And the 3.5" are by far the worst
losing data while sitting on the shelf.
I stored some of my old Atari 8 floppies in a 140degF attic for a few
years and still only have had about a 1-2% failure rate. Those old DSDD
disks were beasts!!! (I don't store them in the attic anymore...) :)

BTW, I have around 500 of those DSDD Atari disks here and can nearly read
them all... and nearly all were written in the 80's.

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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: Spectre to bbsing on Wed Aug 23 2023 01:04 pm

There's a few things that spell the end for floppies... Mold for one, who'd had thought that'd be a thing.. what are they feeding on?

Maybe they're nostalgic :D

candycane

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Arelor wrote to bbsing <=-

Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: bbsing to Dr. What on Tue Aug 22 2023 12:59 am

I think if a 3.5 inch floppy is cared for, maybe they will last a lifetime.

I am not so sure.

I have had many lose their data just by sitting on the shelves for decades.

I have lost some data on some floppies sitting in a box for years. That box went in and out of Storage, and just about everywhere I have gone. I did to further testing on the failed floppy because I didn't want to cause more damage. So maybe the disk is actually OK but an area got degaussed some how. I realize I can't believe the lifetime warranty nor have a checked how that warranty works.


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Spectre wrote to bbsing <=-

There's a few things that spell the end for floppies... Mold for one, who'd had thought that'd be a thing.. what are they feeding on? If you left the mold long enough presumably it'd eat something out of the surface. But sans that mold either needs to be cleaned off the surface carefully or the drive head will eat it, become filthy and won't read.

I think there is a species of mold that can eat anything that exists in the kinetic world.

I really like the 3.5 inch floppy as a storage medium, over all the time of my computing life, that has been my favorite. I like the sound the drive makes engaging the disc, the head sound moving across the medium, and the form factor and transportability.

I hope SSD is the answer for lifetime storage.

The more likely problem, like HD's will be bit rot... eventually losing random magnetic data.

Just for giggles, 8bit shack is sourcing floppys from somewhere.
They're still putting out A2 software.

What is A2 software?

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On 22 Aug 23 23:59:20 Bf2K+ wrote...

My own experience is that my old Atari 8-bit 5.25" disk fare much
better than the 1.2mb 5.25" PC floppies. And the 3.5" are by far the
worst losing data while sitting on the shelf. I stored some of my old
Atari 8 floppies in a 140degF attic for a few years and still only
have had about a 1-2% failure rate. Those old DSDD disks were
beasts!!! (I don't store them in the attic anymore...) :)

BTW, I have around 500 of those DSDD Atari disks here and can nearly
read them all... and nearly all were written in the 80's.

To which Commodore Clifford replies...

I've noticed that too. Many of the ST disks are going/gone (not all the commercial ones, but my own). Fortunately, most of my stuff that I care
about was saved on hard drives and my main ones still work today.

But the Atari 8-bit 5.25's were in pretty good shape except for a few
that were some of my literally oldest (like the couple disks I bought
with my "allowance" when I was just a kid). Trying to recover the
world's greatest programming ventures from those!


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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: bbsing to Spectre on Wed Aug 23 2023 01:50 pm

I think there is a species of mold that can eat anything that exists in the kinetic world.

What is the kinetic world?? That sounds really cool.

candycane

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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: candycane to bbsing on Wed Aug 23 2023 10:11 pm

I think there is a species of mold that can eat anything that exists in
the kinetic world.

What is the kinetic world?? That sounds really cool.

Probably just means the physical world...?

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On 22 Aug 23 17:47:27 Arelor wrote...

I am not so sure.

I have had many lose their data just by sitting on the shelves for
decades.

To which Darklord replies...

I've just not had that experience. By far, most of the 3.5 inch floppies
that I've owned I still have and work. I've had the occasional failure
but nothing like I've seen other people talk about...



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candycane wrote to bbsing <=-

Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: bbsing to Spectre on Wed Aug 23 2023 01:50 pm

I think there is a species of mold that can eat anything that exists in the kinetic world.

What is the kinetic world?? That sounds really cool.

Well it is pretty cool when I think about the spinning rock we walk on :) ... but ... I used the wrong word, I should have said the material world.

I was thinking of things made of matter.


From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:

kinetic
adj 1: relating to the motion of material bodies and the forces
associated therewith; "kinetic energy"



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Nightfox wrote to candycane <=-

Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: candycane to bbsing on Wed Aug 23 2023 10:11 pm

I think there is a species of mold that can eat anything that exists in
the kinetic world.

What is the kinetic world?? That sounds really cool.

Probably just means the physical world...?

Exactly Nightfox, and even more concise.


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Well it is pretty cool when I think about the spinning rock we walk on
:) ... but ... I used the wrong word, I should have said the material world.

Ah, ok. Also, *anything*? Even, like diamonds?

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Maybe they're nostalgic :D

Could be...


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Could be...

Do single cell organisms have memory?

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Could be...

Do single cell organisms have memory?

Only if it eats a lot of magnetic media :)

Spec


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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: candycane to Spectre on Sat Aug 26 2023 04:04 am

Do single cell organisms have memory?

How do amoebas communicate? With cell phones.

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Only if it eats a lot of magnetic media :)

512mb organism :D

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How do amoebas communicate? With cell phones.

Haven't heard that one before lol.

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On 25 Aug 2023, candycane said the following...

Well it is pretty cool when I think about the spinning rock we walk o :) ... but ... I used the wrong word, I should have said the materia world.

Ah, ok. Also, *anything*? Even, like diamonds?

depends who you are, I know Madonna likes diamonds :)

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Re: Re: Floppy disks
By: bbsing to candycane on Sun Sep 10 2023 02:10 am

depends who you are, I know Madonna likes diamonds :)

I think everyone likes diamonds.

candycane

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