• SPAM: [echoirlp] EchoLink Link Status

    From Chuck@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 10:44:54 2023
    I am looking at the EchoLink Link Status page and I don't see the call
    sign KF7NPL-R there.  At the bottom of the page it says only, The only stations shown are those which have entered location information on the
    RF Info tab of Sysop Settings.

    The question where are the Sysop Settings stored, and how can I insert
    the location.

    thanks Chuck



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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 13:23:57 2023
    On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 12:49 PM Chuck <dumptruck2m@gmail.com> wrote:

    I am looking at the EchoLink Link Status page and I don't see the call
    sign KF7NPL-R there. At the bottom of the page it says only, The only stations shown are those which have entered location information on the
    RF Info tab of Sysop Settings.

    The question where are the Sysop Settings stored, and how can I insert
    the location.


    I currently see KF7NPL-R on the EchoLink logins status page. EchoLink
    servers don't update that page too quickly. If you installed EchoIRLP
    yourself, the tbd configuration settings can be found in /home/EchoIRLP/custom/tbd.conf. The ConferenceQth value determines the
    EchoLink location.
    If you are using Dave Cameron's version of EchoIRLP as found on his
    Raspberry PI installations, refer to Dave's documentation on irlp.net for
    the tbd.conf configuration file location. I believe it is under /home/irlp/features/EchoIRLP/custom/tbd.conf
    Remember to restart/reboot after making changes to tbd.conf. Making a
    backup copy of tbd.conf is suggested, before making changes.

    David McAnally
    WD5M


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 11:31:51 2023
    I think Chuck's question is about the Link Status page, which shows the lat/lon and other data about the RF link.
    For EchoIRLP (or theBridge), the data driving this page is in a separate section in the tbd.conf file, which I believe has some documentation in the comments.
    The format is a bit tricky, and about 1/3 of the links online are sending invalid data currently.


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 11:35:14 2023
    [Edited Message Follows]

    I think Chuck's question is about the Link Status page, which shows the lat/lon and other data about the RF link.
    For EchoIRLP (or theBridge), the data driving this page is in a separate section in the tbd.conf file, which I believe has some documentation in the comments.
    The format is a bit tricky, and about 1/3 of the links online are sending invalid data currently.

    The relevant section begins with:
    ; Information about your node for publishing via the EchoLink or
    ; APRS-IS (Automatic Packet Reporting System-Internet Service) systems.


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 14:25:23 2023
    On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 1:35 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    [Edited Message Follows]

    I think Chuck's question is about the Link Status page, which shows the lat/lon and other data about the RF link.
    For EchoIRLP (or theBridge), the data driving this page is in a separate section in the tbd.conf file, which I believe has some documentation in the comments.
    The format is a bit tricky, and about 1/3 of the links online are sending invalid data currently.

    The relevant section begins with:
    ; Information about your node for publishing via the EchoLink or
    ; APRS-IS (Automatic Packet Reporting System-Internet Service) systems.


    I wonder if the theBridge Avrs settings ever worked for EchoLink status updates? If someone can look at WD5M-R in the EchoLink server data updates
    and point out what is incorrect, maybe I can look into the TBD source code sometime.

    David McAnally
    WD5M


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 20:23:03 2023
    On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 03:26 PM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:


    If someone can look at WD5M-R in the EchoLink server data updates
    and point out what is incorrect

    David,
    The server is reporting an error in the syntax of messages which look like this:

    )EL- wd5m!3515.06NE09835.100W0PHG3330/145110/000=WX5FWD at 2043

    Off hand I notice that the longitude (09835.100W) has too many digits; the expected format would be: 09835.10W

    Incidentally, a reminder that the APRS standard, which this follows, calls for lats/lons in degrees and decimal minutes -- as opposed to decimal degrees, or degrees/minutes/seconds.




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  • From Chuck@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Nov 25 21:21:45 2023
    That worked.

    The file was located at /home/EchoIRLP/custom/tbd.conf.

    I change it save it reboot and it worked to put it in EchoLink Link
    Status page.

    On 11/25/23 8:23 PM, Jonathan Taylor wrote:
    On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 03:26 PM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:

    If someone can look at WD5M-R in the EchoLink server data updates
    and point out what is incorrect

    David,
    The server is reporting an error in the syntax of messages which look like this:

    )EL- wd5m!3515.06NE09835.100W0PHG3330/145110/000=WX5FWD at 2043

    Off hand I notice that the longitude (09835.100W) has too many digits; the expected format would be: 09835.10W

    Incidentally, a reminder that the APRS standard, which this follows, calls for lats/lons in degrees and decimal minutes -- as opposed to decimal degrees, or degrees/minutes/seconds.









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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 20:28:31 2023
    On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    (...)
    The server is reporting an error in the syntax of messages which look like this:

    )EL- wd5m!3515.06NE09835.100W0PHG3330/145110/000=WX5FWD at 2043

    Off hand I notice that the longitude (09835.100W) has too many digits; the expected format would be: 09835.10W


    Thanks Jonathan,

    Skip's avrs.c source code converts the configuration values into the APRS format. He even documented all of it in the source code. However, the conversion inadvertently will add a digit to the decimal fraction value for some configuration values. For example, a configuration of Longitude =
    -98.6 is being sent as "09835.100W" as you noted. Other configuration
    values are only 2 digits for the fraction value. Just adding an extra digit
    to -98.6, such as -98.601 may work around the issue. That's what I just did
    for WD5M-R.

    I'll have to study the code to find a good solution. I'm not a C programmer
    by trade, but I can usually figure it out. I'll also open a problem with
    Skip to see if he wants to take a look and suggest a fix.

    In the meantime, anyone using theBridge or theLinkbox with Avrs enabled
    should check the value sent by starting tbd with the "-d" (debug) option
    and be sure the Avrs value sent adheres to APRS format. The APRS format definition can be found at http://www.aprs.net/vm/DOS/PROTOCOL.HTM.

    David McAnally
    WD5M


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 18:36:54 2023
    David,

    Thanks for the analysis.
    I'd also be happy to look at the source and possibly suggest a fix, although I'm not sure how it would be committed.

    As for other sources of invalid data, I think the largest single cohort is Asterisk/app_rpt/AllStar installations which use an EchoLink channel driver. The main problem is that this stack isn't doing any validation of the data elements before sending them.

    Another issue (across all platforms) is valid data packets containing incorrect data, especially confusing East and West longitudes. Fixing this would require eyeballing the plotted map and contacting specific node owners about obvious discrepancies.


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 21:07:46 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 8:36 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    Thanks for the analysis.
    I'd also be happy to look at the source and possibly suggest a fix,
    although I'm not sure how it would be committed.


    Since the avrs.c source code is the same between theBridge and theLinkbox,
    I'd start with the avrs.c source found at https://github.com/skiphansen/thelinkbox/tree/master/src
    I just opened an issue for this problem in Skip's github repository for theLinkbox.


    As for other sources of invalid data, I think the largest single cohort is Asterisk/app_rpt/AllStar installations which use an EchoLink channel
    driver. The main problem is that this stack isn't doing any validation of
    the data elements before sending them.

    Another issue (across all platforms) is valid data packets containing incorrect data, especially confusing East and West longitudes. Fixing this would require eyeballing the plotted map and contacting specific node
    owners about obvious discrepancies.


    Yes, I agree, Allstar could use some help. Seems updates are pretty slow
    with that code too, although there are a few programmers trying to help. I
    know the beta Allstar that's been out for quite a while fixed some long standing issues. But channel drivers still need work. Reporting issues in
    the github Allstar repository may help document them for programmers to
    look further.

    The east/west and north/south (positive/negative) setting is a long
    standing mistake, even though the tbd.conf sample file is pretty clear
    about this setting. I guess there could be a check that requires APRS coordinates to be within the geographic area for the call sign provided. :-)

    David McAnally
    WD5M


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 19:44:14 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 10:08 PM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:

    Since the avrs.c source code is the same between theBridge and theLinkbox, I'd start with the avrs.c source found at https://github.com/skiphansen/thelinkbox/tree/master/src

    David, are you sure that version of avrs.c matches the binary you're running? It uses the format string %02.2f to produce the mins and decimal mins, and I don't see how that would ever put three digits to the right of the decimal point, unless there is a bug in the standard libraries.

    The difference between
    09835.100W (observed)
    and
    09836.00W (expected)
    looks more like an error in code which is using integer arithmetic.



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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 22:16:33 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 9:44 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 10:08 PM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:

    Since the avrs.c source code is the same between theBridge and
    theLinkbox,
    I'd start with the avrs.c source found at https://github.com/skiphansen/thelinkbox/tree/master/src

    David, are you sure that version of avrs.c matches the binary you're
    running?
    It uses the format string %02.2f to produce the mins and decimal mins, and
    I don't see how that would ever put three digits to the right of the
    decimal point, unless there is a bug in the standard libraries.

    The difference between
    09835.100W (observed)
    and
    09836.00W (expected)
    looks more like an error in code which is using integer arithmetic.


    Yes, that is the avrs.c I am using. That does seem odd. WD5M-R is on an
    older version of Debian 7.8. Both theBridge and theLinkbox do the same odd
    APRS conversion on this box. I'll try it on a newer Debian later.

    David


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 20:23:41 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 11:17 PM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:


    Yes, that is the avrs.c I am using. That does seem odd.


    I did some more digging and I see that avrs.c in theBridge source code base is completely different, vs. theLinkbox. And I think I see the bug in that version (below), which uses integer values rather than a floating-point format string.

    // Lines 256-262 in avrs.c for theBridge-1.09
    Long = (int)x;
    x -= Long;
    x *= 60.0;
    LongMin = (int)x;
    x -= LongMin;
    x *= 100.0;
    LongHunders = (int)(x + 0.5);

    In that last line, adding 0.5 causes the hundredths-of-degrees to be rounded Up in some cases, such as 99.6 becoming 100.
    IMO it should always be rounded Down instead (omit the + 0.5).


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 22:41:52 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    I did some more digging and I see that avrs.c in theBridge source code
    base is completely different, vs. theLinkbox. And I think I see the bug in that version (below), which uses integer values rather than a
    floating-point format string.

    // Lines 256-262 in avrs.c for theBridge-1.09
    Long = (int)x;
    x -= Long;
    x *= 60.0;
    LongMin = (int)x;
    x -= LongMin;
    x *= 100.0;
    LongHunders = (int)(x + 0.5);

    In that last line, adding 0.5 causes the hundredths-of-degrees to be rounded Up in some cases, such as 99.6 becoming 100.
    IMO it should always be rounded Down instead (omit the + 0.5).


    Makes sense. I should be able to test this in the next few days.

    David


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sun Nov 26 23:30:23 2023
    On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 10:23 PM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:


    I did some more digging and I see that avrs.c in theBridge source code
    base is completely different, vs. theLinkbox. And I think I see the bug in that version (below), which uses integer values rather than a
    floating-point format string.

    // Lines 256-262 in avrs.c for theBridge-1.09
    Long = (int)x;
    x -= Long;
    x *= 60.0;
    LongMin = (int)x;
    x -= LongMin;
    x *= 100.0;
    LongHunders = (int)(x + 0.5);

    In that last line, adding 0.5 causes the hundredths-of-degrees to be rounded Up in some cases, such as 99.6 becoming 100.
    IMO it should always be rounded Down instead (omit the + 0.5).


    I did a quick change on my old system, recompiled and ran it. This change
    does correct my example using -98.6.

    David


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  • From Jonathan Taylor@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Mon Nov 27 04:36:17 2023
    On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 12:31 AM, David McAnally, WD5M wrote:


    This change
    does correct my example using -98.6.

    That's great -- thanks for that -- and I am surprised to see that this is not a rare problem -- the log shows 36 nodes which have the same pattern. Interestingly, most of them are running Asterisk, rather than EchoIRLP. I see in the source code for chan_echolink.c that it has essentially the same bug:

    latb = (lata - floor(lata)) * 60;
    latd = (latb - floor(latb)) * 100 + 0.5;
    lonb = (lona - floor(lona)) * 60;
    lond = (lonb - floor(lonb)) * 100 + 0.5;


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Mon Nov 27 16:57:18 2023
    On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 6:36 AM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:


    That's great -- thanks for that -- and I am surprised to see that this is
    not a rare problem -- the log shows 36 nodes which have the same pattern. Interestingly, most of them are running Asterisk, rather than EchoIRLP. I see in the source code for chan_echolink.c that it has essentially the same bug:


    I suspect some of Skip's tbd code may have found its way into the Allstar EchoLink module. I think tbd came before Allstar.

    There are some search returns about rounding a float variable to an
    integer, and adding 0.5 was included in some old methods. For example see
    the answer here <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44848113/rounding-off-floating-point-value-in-c-without-using-build-in-functions>.
    I don't think we care about rounding up or down, so simply converting to integer with its rounding down seems okay to me.

    Getting Allstar/TBD/TLB source and binaries updated is going to take a
    while. But at least we can point those experiencing the problem to a
    possible solution.

    David McAnally
    WD5M


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  • From David McAnally, WD5M@432:1/101 to echoirlp@groups.io on Sat Dec 2 19:35:20 2023
    On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 6:36 AM Jonathan Taylor <K1RFD@k1rfd.com> wrote:

    That's great -- thanks for that -- and I am surprised to see that this is
    not a rare problem -- the log shows 36 nodes which have the same pattern. Interestingly, most of them are running Asterisk, rather than EchoIRLP. I see in the source code for chan_echolink.c that it has essentially the same bug:

    latb = (lata - floor(lata)) * 60;
    latd = (latb - floor(latb)) * 100 + 0.5;
    lonb = (lona - floor(lona)) * 60;
    lond = (lonb - floor(lonb)) * 100 + 0.5;


    Allstar's chan_echolink.c change history includes one described as "Fixed rounding errors for aprs in chan_echolink (thanx David kb4fxc)" dated Jan
    22, 2011. Looks like he added the floor function. An Internet search
    provides some history of the floor function with "+ 0.5", versus the round function. Round may have been introduced after floor in C. Seems to me
    your simpler code may be a better solution in this use case. If you're
    seeing incorrect position update formats from chan_echolink users, with
    current Allstar chan_echolink code, then the floor function can't be the solution.

    https://github.com/AllStarLink/ASL-Asterisk/commits/develop/asterisk/channels/chan_echolink.c
    https://github.com/AllStarLink/ASL-Asterisk/commit/7ebed2e475c365babb6d8bb4aa04aac010db3198

    David
    WD5M


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